Bad news for TFW under food service processing their LMO

[faizal3788]

when they lift the ban?

 

[scylla]

when they lift the ban?

None of us can answer that question.

 

[fkl]

Two years ago the government made the programme more attractive to companies saying that they could pay 15%less than the average wage in the job.....

What the government has realised, because the C D Howe Institute told them, is that allowing TFW in unchecked is depressing wages, at a time when average median wages should have gone up by 3%, they have gone up by less than 2%, and unemployment in the west is 3.8% higher than it should be.

So the arguement is that TFWs are increasing unemployment and depressing wages. Let me illustrate that. Cara Operations,who operate such roadhouse style restaurants as Milestones and Kelseys are seeking Chefs at $20/25PH (salaried). These are restaurants where all the ordering is done according to a set plan, and the chef basically has no discretion in what is served. Good restaurants where the chef is required to have superior skills, staffing,ordering, menu planning etc would probably be looking at a minimum twice that amount, say $70/80 thousand per annum. I suspect most of you who are chefs are being offered maybe $12/13PH.

This why there is a problem, because you are right, a chef will not take a job at $13 when he knows he is worth, and can get twice that amount.

No one is blaming TFW, we are blaming companies who are trying to get cheap labour, at the same time as they are denying Canadian residents jobs

A sensible answer. But several of the statistics have changed.

The 15% less wage rule was demolished in april 2013. That's a year ago. A good deal of tfw are also from highly skilled jobs making err... quite a lot more than what normal Canadians do. And that's because you do not have qualified Canadians for those roles.

Also i simply don't understand how is it possible to keep some one on wages lower than those offered to Canadians. HRDSC would specifically reject an LMO if the wages offered are not exactly at least equivalent to those offered to a Canadian for a similar role. If the employer does not actually practice it, then government should enforce rules making it harder not to follow, rather than abolishing the program altogether.

So please don't blame the program as a whole. It has far more benefits including the fact that if government closes it, a lot of other countries which allows Canadians to work there would reciprocate too. It just needs to be fixed and enforced in the true spirit. Moreover, there is a good chance that the highly skilled resources would end up being permanent residents, they already pay a lot of taxes, while not having some of the benefits that a PR enjoys. They might end up going towards entrepreneurial side there by creating jobs for Canadians.

A good deal of people raise slogans just to take out their fury of being unemployed. It would have been better if they just focused on developing their skills instead. There are two sides of the picture always. So please view this aspect too. Thanks for reading

 

[torontosm]

That's a year ago. A good deal of tfw are also from highly skilled jobs making err... quite a lot more than what normal Canadians do. And that's because you do not have qualified Canadians for those roles.

I really doubt that it would be that hard to find Canadians who are qualified to pour coffee at a Tim Hortons or assemble burgers at McDonalds. I personally don't see why we need to import people from halfway around the world for these positions, and then provide these people with backdoor access to PR and Citizenship.

 

[fkl]

I really doubt that it would be that hard to find Canadians who are qualified to pour coffee at a Tim Hortons or assemble burgers at McDonalds. I personally don't see why we need to import people from halfway around the world for these positions, and then provide these people with backdoor access to PR and Citizenship.

TFW is a program with a large number of professions MANY of those belong to highly skilled categories, including but not limited to University professors. Tim Horton or MacDonalds is NOT the only category covered. Some how debates seem to stick around those ONLY.

While i fully understand the problems created in those professions, please understand that when you talk about the program as a whole, it encompasses a much larger domain.

 

[zardoz]

Maybe they'll end with a TFW system only for NOC skill levels A+B (managers not needed). Who knows.....

 

[Pipewrench]

this - I cannot post links

Petitioning Minister Jason Kenney

Don't include TFWs already working in Canada in your moratorium.Let them stay!

Paste this in google search:

petitions-prime-minister-harper-don-t-include-tfws-already-working-in-canada-in-your-moratorium-let-them-stay

 

[fkl]

Maybe they'll end with a TFW system only for NOC skill levels A+B (managers not needed). Who knows.....

May be, but it is not likely. Because managers fall into all professions you recruit for. You cannot have a not specialized manager overseeing a team of specialized skills. And i am pretty sure they know that. So i don't think that would fly.

 

[rhcohen2014]

Also i simply don't understand how is it possible to keep some one on wages lower than those offered to Canadians. HRDSC would specifically reject an LMO if the wages offered are not exactly at least equivalent to those offered to a Canadian for a similar role. If the employer does not actually practice it, then government should enforce rules making it harder not to follow, rather than abolishing the program altogether.

perhaps they are offering the minimum allowable rate by law, which is lower than Canadian workers? This is my guess, since it seems to be mostly the food/service industry affected by this. Companies in the US do it all the time... just google equal pay + women + US. We are still fighting for equal pay for equal work, even in 2014.

 

[fkl]

perhaps they are offering the minimum allowable rate by law, which is lower than Canadian workers? This is my guess, since it seems to be mostly the food/service industry affected by this. Companies in the US do it all the time... just google equal pay + women + US. We are still fighting for equal pay for equal work, even in 2014.

That is true, but then again you could do the same even to Canadians. There is always a boundary drawn by law for pays, and there is a level achieved by free market, personal skills and ability. Women not being treated equally is a different story even in the US. That has nothing to do with TFW - at least not directly.

I am just hoping a good balance could strike between the two - so as to not make Canadians feel affected as well as let those come and work who see it as a change in life. Still the best of compensations would never come from law. Law will always put minimum boundary. If you are worth more, find an employer intelligent enough to realize that. Or better yet start a business on your own. Canadian government supports new businesses so much, that it is hard to believe possible. Tax benefits and even going up to maintaining your payroll for a certain number of months if you are temporarily out of capital.

 

[rhcohen2014]

That is true, but then again you could do the same even to Canadians. There is always a boundary drawn by law for pays, and there is a level achieved by free market, personal skills and ability. Women not being treated equally is a different story even in the US. That has nothing to do with TFW - at least not directly.

well, yeah i know that! i was using it as an example of unequal pay for equal work.

my guess is the employers in question are paying foreign workers minimum wage because they can get away with it, because they are less likely to complain and risk their status in Canada.

 

[tetay26]

does the moratorium includes Meat Processing Plants e.g. Cargil - meatcutters?

 

[SeanDame]

does the moratorium includes Meat Processing Plants e.g. Cargil - meatcutters?

Yes. NOC 6251 - meat cutter is suspended.

 

[faizal3788]

I really doubt that it would be that hard to find Canadians who are qualified to pour coffee at a Tim Hortons or assemble burgers at McDonalds. I personally don't see why we need to import people from halfway around the world for these positions, and then provide these people with backdoor access to PR and Citizenship.

I really don't understand ... Is Canadian Govt believe only the chefs who flips the burgers...is that a big deal? come on >> i am an professional chef who got hired for high standard restaurant with Professional Culinary Degree and experience of 8 yrs .. I applied through TFW as I got a job for that particular restaurant ...if not I wont be applying as I have more passion on fresh ingredients and quality food been serviced..

 

[fkl]

I really don't understand ... Is Canadian Govt believe only the chefs who flips the burgers...is that a big deal? come on >> i am an professional chef who got hired for high standard restaurant with Professional Culinary Degree and experience of 8 yrs .. I applied through TFW as I got a job for that particular restaurant ...if not I wont be applying as I have more passion on fresh ingredients and quality food been serviced..

Well there definitely is some abuse of the program. Not denying that. But then again, it is just easier to create a hype portraying "low wages - poor workers who wouldn't say any thing" as a cause. You know when being a Canadian you are frustrated with finding a job, this kind of news really ignites the emotions, even if it is a bit exaggerated OR as in this case, expanded to cover on a broader scale any or every thing possible. Comparatively it is harder to brush your own skills and work with dedication.

For others this one is just another example of exactly the same "Chefs and cooks domain" which neither seems underpaid (there by bringing down Canadian wages) nor steals some one's job.