Any thoughts on this? opinions from both ends; Sponsor and Sponsored Spouse

[aarongpasha]

Hey computergeek: I consider this change as an eye wash to deter "frauds". This will not affect much the frauds neither will speed up the system - I am not convinced. It might trap some genuine people into trouble. Relation always breaks up and find the new one. This change might have a little impact on filtering the frauds. Actually, there is NO black and while rule to deter the fraud. Because they have money to manipulate the system. Genuines do not have much resources in general. So they are always vulnerable. There should be something, some system to sort out the genuines from the frauds. Lets think about it.

 

[computergeek]

After thinking about this further, I recalled a case that is a good example of how things can "go wrong" and hurt innocent people.

http://canlii.ca/t/fshl0

This is a case that was argued by the attorney I used as well. A couple together for many years, the sponsor died while the spousal PR application was in process. CIC graciously allowed it to be converted to an H&C application but something went wrong in the communcations from VO to applicant and ultimately they terminated the application after making a positive determination. The applicant filed a new application and the new VO rejected the application, in spite of the previous approval.

The applicant was 72 years old by the time this made it to Federal Court. Judicial Review was granted.

One of the reasons the H&C category exists at all is precisely because it can be so difficult to deal with all the edge cases - so this gives CIC sufficient latitude to evaluate these cases. There's only a few hundred H&C applications per year and many are not granted, but some are. I for one would feel better if there were some sort of review process available for this new provisional sponsorship.

 

[tuyen]

Remember, that when you build up these rules you need to either leave enough "slack" in the system to give someone the ability to make judgment calls, or you need to accommodate every possible outcome.

So, let's take a hypothetical case here: a US/Canadian same-sex couple who had lived together in Texas for 10 years. The US citizen finds a great job in Toronto that qualifies under NAFTA. They decide to move. After a year or two in Ontario, they decide to get married. They then start the PR process. For whatever reason, it takes 2-3 years - perhaps the visa office is closed just as their application gets to the front of the queue so it ends up stuck to the bottom of the U-Haul that moves all the files to the new VO... It's approved. Because they weren't married 2 years at the time the application was filed, a provisional PR is granted. Seven years into this period the Canadian sponsor is diagnosed with terminal cancer and is ultimately moved to hospice.

So, the American half of this couple loses citizenship when his/her partner dies: move to hospice constitutes a termination of the cohabitation required by the spousal sponsorship. But he/she hasn't lived in the US in 10+ years, his/her work and home is in Toronto.

Contrived? Well, I know a couple that would pretty much fit everything except the terminal cancer step.


Personally, I fully plan on spending the rest of my life with my spouse. I'm the older of us, so I suspect I'm lucky in that regard, as I'll be the first to go, so the ad hominem attack on me is pointless in this case. Further, I'm not subject to the conditional spousal PR. So I have no dog in this fight - but I don't like seeing broad generalizations either because in my experience life is not so black and white - that's why I favour systems that provide lattitude to a decision maker to do "what is right" in a given situation. It's just too hard to "get it right" up front. Life just isn't that simple.

Uhhh...seriously...WTF?
Who said anything about terminal cancer? I simply said I want there to be a provision for SCAMMERS to be deported, even up to 10 years after they've arrived in Canada, IF - and only IF - there is clear and demonstrable proof that they've entered Canada on false pretenses. How did you take what I said and then turn it into this whole sob story about cancer and people dying during the immigration process? Geez.

Obviously if the people involved are NOT trying to scam their way into Canada, I have nothing against them, and they're welcome to live here for their entire lives, even if their marriage ultimately ends in divorce. My problem is with people who are cheating the system, and not with people who undergo various hardships. I also want there to be equality in terms of who ends up on the short end of the stick, because there's absolutely no logic in holding a sponsor legally and financially liable for 10 years, while the immigrant scammer is free to just leave her sponsor at any time and roam around Canada with her new PR status which will ultimately turn into citizenship three years down the road.

 

[Leon]

Scammers can be deported, even 10 years or longer after getting their PR. I remember a case of a woman who had been sponsored to Canada by her spouse. She left her spouse and some years later tried to sponsor a new spouse herself. Upon looking at her application and her proof of relationship with the new spouse, immigration concluded that her first marriage was a MOC, revoked her PR and sent her packing.

According to the press release about the new rules, they said you "may" lose your PR if the relationship doesn't last 2 years after getting PR. That gives them the opportunity to decide on a case by case basis, say for example when the couple were still together as the sponsor died.

There are cases where a person dies when a PR application is in process, for example a sponsor or a principal applicant and of course that means that the application dies with them but there is nothing much immigration can to do stop people from dying. Of course it would help a bit if the processing was faster though.

 

[Foofy]

although this is good.. it might suck for some people.. for example, i got my PR in march, then 3 months later my husband left. I asked him till the last day lets fix it, but he didnt bother, just left. I would have lost my PR now. Some relationships (most of them) dont last for ever. :s