19th draw - what could be the lowest score

[Neel0526]

I think 440 if it happens this friday, may lord bless all of us.

I am sitting at 436 though, hoping for a miracle to happen.

 

[Jad77]

I think 440 if it happens this friday, may lord bless all of us.

I am sitting at 436 though, hoping for a miracle to happen.

Your turn would be probably in December or January ...
Good luck !

 

[mead]

I think 440 if it happens this friday, may lord bless all of us.

I am sitting at 436 though, hoping for a miracle to happen.

sorry to say this but not going down below 450 unless the government changes. Hope Liberals win the election and do something about EE

 

[taffarel]

sorry to say this but not going down below 450 unless the government changes. Hope Liberals win the election and do something about EE

hope you right.

 

[anarsoul]

sorry to say this but not going down below 450 unless the government changes. Hope Liberals win the election and do something about EE

What Liberals could change? Drop EE and reintroduce list of eligible occupations? Or reintroduce quotes? It's been there already and it does not work.
Please understand that Canada can't take everyone, immigration system just has no enough capacity to process more applications than it currently does.
It needs some filter, and honestly speaking, current filter (which is EE) is quite good for Canada. Admit it, both Liberals and Conservatives care about Canada, not about foreign nationals.
So, currently they take young people with good education and excellent English. It's bad for *you*, but good for Canada. Not likely to change.

 

[mead]

What Liberals could change? Drop EE and reintroduce list of eligible occupations? Or reintroduce quotes? It's been there already and it does not work.
Please understand that Canada can't take everyone, immigration system just has no enough capacity to process more applications than it currently does.
It needs some filter, and honestly speaking, current filter (which is EE) is quite good for Canada. Admit it, both Liberals and Conservatives care about Canada, not about foreign nationals.
So, currently they take young people with good education and excellent English. It's bad for *you*, but good for Canada. Not likely to change.

well i am only concerned for my self dont know or rather cant say what is good for canada that needs to be seen from the impact of these new changes. just because the system look good for u doesnt mean its good for canada . that analysis is difficult . who knows may be older system was working well and new system will stall canadas growth. liberals are more open minded and not like conservatives creating second class citizens. if conservative win again god only knows what other bad news they would bring with them.

 

[anarsoul]

well i am only concerned for my self dont know or rather cant say what is good for canada that needs to be seen from the impact of these new changes. just because the system look good for u doesnt mean its good for canada . that analysis is difficult . who knows may be older system was working well and new system will stall canadas growth. liberals are more open minded and not like conservatives creating second class citizens. if conservative win again god only knows what other bad news they would bring with them.

With EE an individual can get ITA if: either this individual is young, well-educated and has fluent English OR an individual who was considered useful for canadian labour market. What do you think it better for Canada - take young, educated, English-speaking people or take everyone (including first group of course )?

 

[mead]

With EE an individual can get ITA if: either this individual is young, well-educated and has fluent English OR an individual who was considered useful for canadian labour market. What do you think it better for Canada - take young, educated, English-speaking people or take everyone (including first group of course )?

cant say without proper data one may have poor english skills but he may have great trade skills so in that case one with poor english should be good as canada needs trades people. so without comparing apples to apples its hard to tell. a welder only needs basic understanding of english dont need CLB 9. also we have see a cook get ita but a nurse does not. so who is needed more nurse or a cook? point is skill should get priority than english or have it balanced . here u see they want 21 years old with 40 years of experience with english ability scores that most canadians wont pass. does the system make sense? no. profession/NOC should have a preference. if not one day we may find cooks working in hospitals giving care to people without training as system only let cooks in and vice versa .

 

[anarsoul]

cant say without proper data one may have poor english skills but he may have great trade skills so in that case one with poor english should be good as canada needs trades people. so without comparing apples to apples its hard to tell. a welder only needs basic understanding of english dont need CLB 9. also we have see a cook get ita but a nurse does not. so who is needed more nurse or a cook? point is skill should get priority than english or have it balanced .

If you're an extraordinary professional you can convince some canadian employer to apply for LMIA for you and you get +600 points, can't you? That's how system balances skills vs language.

here u see they want 21 years old with 40 years of experience with english ability scores that most canadians wont pass. does the system make sense? no. profession/NOC should have a preference. if not one day we may find cooks working in hospitals giving care to people without training as system only let cooks in and vice versa .

Profession/NOC _DOES_ have a preference. It's implemented via provincial nomination or job offer with LMIA.

As for IELTS/CELPIP scores - it's easy enough to get L8/R7/S7/W7 if you speak English. Every native speaker can get this score.

 

[mead]

If you're an extraordinary professional you can convince some canadian employer to apply for LMIA for you and you get +600 points, can't you? That's how system balances skills vs language.
thats an assumption not all employer would be willing to process LMIA especially if they are a small business( example a doctors small clinic needs a nurse).also LMIA is not guaranteed if an employer is read to sponsor it and thats how it should it be no argument there. LMIA process is not efficient and has gaps.

Profession/NOC _DOES_ have a preference. It's implemented via provincial nomination or job offer with LMIA.
not all PNP consider NOC example ontario. The new human capital stream looks promising though but still not very transparent. Dont know who they target when they give invitations. but atleast ontario has seen the disadvantages of express entry and taken steps to counter it. lowering score to 400 and choosing right candidates.

As for IELTS/CELPIP scores - it's easy enough to get L8/R7/S7/W7 if you speak English. Every native speaker can get this score.
not really Working here I have seen many have, may be good spoken english but poor writing. again i am guessing when u say native speaker means white canadian as i have seen lots of asian/ south asian with citizenships with poor english and successful. I have seen director level people who cannot speak english properly still have great knowledge. nothing has stopped them from being successful. assumption that english of CLB 9 makes u more eligible is wrong.

 

[anarsoul]

thats an assumption not all employer would be willing to process LMIA especially if they are a small business( example a doctors small clinic needs a nurse).also LMIA is not guaranteed if an employer is read to sponsor it and thats how it should it be no argument there. LMIA process is not efficient and has gaps.

Nurse MUST know English to work in Canada. Nurse has to get a license to work in Canada, how he/she is supposed to get a license without knowing English?
And anyway, LMIA is free if employer sponsors individual for PR. But why majority of employers are not willing to do so? Because they simply can't be sure that after getting a PR sponsored individual will stay with them. Moreover, they're not sure that this individual has enough skills/knowledge to do work.

not all PNP consider NOC example ontario. The new human capital stream looks promising though but still not very transparent. Dont know who they target when they give invitations. but atleast ontario has seen the disadvantages of express entry and taken steps to counter it. lowering score to 400 and choosing right candidates.

Why do you think that right candidates are those with score ~400?

not really Working here I have seen many have, may be good spoken english but poor writing. again i am guessing when u say native speaker means white canadian

It's a matter of few months to improve written English if one speaks well. And when I say "native speaker" I mean "native speaker", it has nothing to do with race, I've seen a lot of asians with native English.

as i have seen lots of asian/ south asian with citizenships with poor english and successful. I have seen director level people who cannot speak english properly still have great knowledge. nothing has stopped them from being successful. assumption that english of CLB 9 makes u more eligible is wrong.

Strictly speaking, one has a very little chance for success without proper spoken English (or French in Quebec case). People you're speaking about are an exception, not a rule.
Majority of occupations requires communication, either with clients or with colleagues.

Anyway, how do you propose to estimate "knowledge" or "skills"? It's very subjective, and test for estimating it just doesn't exist.

 

[mead]

Nurse MUST know English to work in Canada. Nurse has to get a license to work in Canada, how he/she is supposed to get a license without knowing English?
I agree nurse needs english but not CLB 9 level which is what is needed right now if CRS doesnt fall below 450. So assuming 450 is a bench mark nurse doesnt need CLB 9 to do the job. Ofcourse license is required which is a seperate issue not related to express entry.

And anyway, LMIA is free if employer sponsors individual for PR. But why majority of employers are not willing to do so? Because they simply can't be sure that after getting a PR sponsored individual will stay with them. Moreover, they're not sure that this individual has enough skills/knowledge to do work.
exactly my point which means system is assuming the wrong thing . System is assuming LMIA sponsored people will fil the required gap which employers need which is wrong.
so bringing people from outside which we do not will or will not work is what system is doing with LMIA process.

Why do you think that right candidates are those with score ~400?
I dont ,but what I was pointing is that ontario is atleast looking in the right direction by selecting people they need rather than people who just have a higher number but may or may not have the skill that r needed for the province.

It's a matter of few months to improve written English if one speaks well. And when I say "native speaker" I mean "native speaker", it has nothing to do with race, I've seen a lot of asians with native English.
exactly my point dont need english for immigration it can be learned later. language can be learnt but skills r difficult to acquire quickly in most cases not all ofcourse.

Strictly speaking, one has a very little chance for success without proper spoken English (or French in Quebec case). People you're speaking about are an exception, not a rule.
Majority of occupations requires communication, either with clients or with colleagues.
I disagree there ...english is required but CLB 9 is not also english can be and will be improved once u get to use it often. english should be in the CRS but right now 450+ cannot be attained with CLB under 9 . So why such a high degree of proficiency required ?

Anyway, how do you propose to estimate "knowledge" or "skills"? It's very subjective, and test for estimating it just doesn't exist.
by adding NOC code may be giving more CRS for NOC and less to english , less points for age and more to experience. so lets say right now canada needs nurses then give more points for NOC for nurses later if we get tons of nurses change the points to cooks if thats what is needed at the time. I am not an expert so cannot say how they can do it effectively when u put a number on a person but it would be a good start.

 

[mead]

Nurse MUST know English to work in Canada. Nurse has to get a license to work in Canada, how he/she is supposed to get a license without knowing English?
I agree nurse needs english but not CLB 9 level which is what is needed right now if CRS doesnt fall below 450. So assuming 450 is a bench mark nurse doesnt need CLB 9 to do the job. Ofcourse license is required which is a seperate issue not related to express entry.

And anyway, LMIA is free if employer sponsors individual for PR. But why majority of employers are not willing to do so? Because they simply can't be sure that after getting a PR sponsored individual will stay with them. Moreover, they're not sure that this individual has enough skills/knowledge to do work.
exactly my point which means system is assuming the wrong thing . System is assuming LMIA sponsored people will fil the required gap which employers need which is wrong.
so bringing people from outside which we do not know will or will not work is what system is doing with LMIA process.

Why do you think that right candidates are those with score ~400?
I dont ,but what I was pointing is that ontario is atleast looking in the right direction by selecting people they need rather than people who just have a higher number but may or may not have the skill that r needed for the province.

It's a matter of few months to improve written English if one speaks well. And when I say "native speaker" I mean "native speaker", it has nothing to do with race, I've seen a lot of asians with native English.
exactly my point dont need english for immigration it can be learned later. language can be learnt but skills r difficult to acquire quickly in most cases not all ofcourse.

Strictly speaking, one has a very little chance for success without proper spoken English (or French in Quebec case). People you're speaking about are an exception, not a rule.
Majority of occupations requires communication, either with clients or with colleagues.
I disagree there ...english is required but CLB 9 is not also english can be and will be improved once u get to use it often. english should be in the CRS but right now 450+ cannot be attained with CLB under 9 . So why such a high degree of proficiency required ?

Anyway, how do you propose to estimate "knowledge" or "skills"? It's very subjective, and test for estimating it just doesn't exist.
by adding NOC code may be giving more CRS for NOC and less to english , less points for age and more to experience. so lets say right now canada needs nurses then give more points for NOC for nurses later if we get tons of nurses change the points to cooks if thats what is needed at the time. I am not an expert so cannot say how they can do it effectively when u put a number on a person but it would be a good start.

 

[anarsoul]

by adding NOC code may be giving more CRS for NOC and less to english , less points for age and more to experience. so lets say right now canada needs nurses then give more points for NOC for nurses later if we get tons of nurses change the points to cooks if thats what is needed at the time. I am not an expert so cannot say how they can do it effectively when u put a number on a person but it would be a good start.

Won't work. NOC code alone and even reference letters don't guarantee that person is experienced worker. There's no way to estimate proficiency in that area. Moreover, there're different standards for different fields in different countries. I don't think that nurse from Russia would be capable to work in Canada without further education.

One more concern - it's quite common for people to change occupation after immigrating to Canada. Strictly speaking, most occupations which are needed for Canada require a license, and close to none immigrant would bother to get one. Ex-nurse washing dishes at some fast-food restaurant does not sound like a win for canadian economy.

Again, outstanding professional would find an employer who would apply for a LMIA. If no employer is willing to apply it basically means that there's no urge need in that kind of specialists (or that foreign nationals are incapable in doing that kind of work without significant investments from employer into education/training). And this mechanism works perfectly, scores higher than 600 earlier this year is the proof.

 

[karandeepwalia]

I am at 435