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Family Class while living in Canada - deliberately delayed by IRCC?

yellowmaple18

Member
Jan 24, 2020
13
15
We are a Jan 2020 Outland couple initially living outside Canada and have received no update since March 2020. There are hundreds and hundreds of us in various online groups that are Outland, living outside Canada and haven't received an update either. I have seen more Outland applications with people living IN Canada being approved than the reverse. IRCC has made statements saying they are prioritizing applications for those who have no travel restrictions (e.g. this includes those IN Canada).

Nothing is being done 'deliberately' to slow your application down. The IRCC is using outdated systems and processes and were not prepared for fully remote working to come on suddenly and we are all suffering for it. There is no excuse to not process applications for X amount of time, have this backlog and not communicate with us. It is unethical practice from our government and yet here we are. Try to think of other things to keep you busy... there is nothing we can do.
 

kieraj

Star Member
Sep 5, 2020
119
59
i just wanna point out your posting in a sub forum for family sponsorship, which for the most part is exempt from travel restrictions
 

Idrissrafd

Hero Member
Aug 12, 2020
299
65
IRCC is quite explicit that some cases are more complex than others and will take longer - and hence no first come, first served applies (logically) for a program with no cap or waiting list.
That’s not true. IRCC picks randomly files, IRCC, sometimes, doesn’t even check the date [of the file]. That has nothing to do with a pseudo complexity. I was talking about STARTING the process, not finishing the process. CQFD.

That’s unfair and I’m pretty sure -like our lawyer said- that the Court will disapprove this typical behaviour.

Ps. And my whole previous message about IRCC is, obviously, sarcastic. But, like I said, everything that I’m talking about is the starting process. I talked to an ex-agent of IRCC, and yes, it’s not an open secret that agents pick randomly files. One day of difference is considered unfair in our society (perhaps not by the Court) so imagine 1 or 2 months (or more) of difference (and that can be problematic, legally).
 
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expatgoingback

Hero Member
Sep 10, 2020
211
96
App. Filed.......
02-09-2020
I'm sorry for your situation and I understand your frustration, but I didn't complain at all. All I'm trying to do is to look for other people who applied in the same category that I did, compare our timelines and trying to find out if our applications are deliberately withheld and delayed by IRCC. If this offends you or you see it as complaining, then I apologize.
Well, you aren't being delayed though you submitted it in December! September applicant here living outside of the country with no AOR.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,158
8,805
That’s not true. IRCC picks randomly files, IRCC, sometimes, doesn’t even check the date [of the file]. That has nothing to do with a pseudo complexity. I was talking about STARTING the process, not finishing the process. CQFD.

That’s unfair and I’m pretty sure -like our lawyer said- that the Court will disapprove this typical behaviour.

Ps. And my whole previous message about IRCC is, obviously, sarcastic. But, like I said, everything that I’m talking about is the starting process. I talked to an ex-agent of IRCC, and yes, it’s not an open secret that agents pick randomly files. One day of difference is considered unfair in our society (perhaps not by the Court) so imagine 1 or 2 months (or more) of difference (and that can be problematic, legally).
Please, feel free to take it to court. I think it has very low chances of any meaningful success - redress that applicants may be looking for - but there's always some lawyer who wants a new boat.

I think it's fairly clear that prior to covid, the order in which the very first stage (AOR/data entry) was done was fairly close to the order in which they arrived. Not a 100% direct first-come, first-served - there are steps with outside agencies like provinces that can get hung up - but it was reasonably close.

Since then, their system has clearly broken down. "Random" - I don't know - as actually I think the signs are that they have established separate teams dealing with apps received before roughly November, and those after. Those received after are getting relatively quick, those before are beginning to catch up - which to me indicates that 'older files' are a mess and they are close to physically digging them out.

And that crucially, they've determined (perhaps mistakenly) that throwing more bodies at the backlog from before is a waste of resources. (There are physical constraints that mean 3X more people for example will not fix it). And that it is NOT more equitable to delay all files (including yours as a later stage) to 'dig things out' from the first group.

So: perhaps 'unfairly' but no first come first served.

Will a court 'disapprove?' Perhaps. That doesn't matter. What matters is whether the court could (in fact) or would order meaningful redress. I'm skeptical - but if you've got the money to fund a legal challenge, there's a boat out there waiting to have your name painted on it.

Even if there were 'redress' at the AOR stage - would it matter? Because after AOR, it most obviously is not first-come, first-served.

And you've ignored the point that any comparison to the quota-driven, capped (and now defunct for precisely these reasons) investor's immigration programme is a fool's errand. The 'fundamental principle of justice' the court identified there clearly was relevant to that programme - and very much not to others.

But hey, go for it. I might note, however, this point: the case you cited was an applicant for immigration who was suing six years after his file started processing. And his writ of mandamus was denied - and it was denied not because he'd been waiting too long - but because if the writ was granted, he would have received an unjust benefit (due to principle of first-come, first-served) compared to all the people that were ahead of him.

Not to speculate too openly - but has it occurred to you that in your case, that would mean waiting until all of the applicants before you (and there are many) got handled in order?

Talk about grasping defeat from the jaws of victory.

[In case not obvious to anyone: I still think these are horrific delays and an embarrassment to Canada. But however bad that may be, that doesn't mean that all arguments or comments from those who are frustrated make sense, are truthful, or have any reasonable prospect of legal victory.]
 

kieraj

Star Member
Sep 5, 2020
119
59
Please, feel free to take it to court. I think it has very low chances of any meaningful success - redress that applicants may be looking for - but there's always some lawyer who wants a new boat.

I think it's fairly clear that prior to covid, the order in which the very first stage (AOR/data entry) was done was fairly close to the order in which they arrived. Not a 100% direct first-come, first-served - there are steps with outside agencies like provinces that can get hung up - but it was reasonably close.

Since then, their system has clearly broken down. "Random" - I don't know - as actually I think the signs are that they have established separate teams dealing with apps received before roughly November, and those after. Those received after are getting relatively quick, those before are beginning to catch up - which to me indicates that 'older files' are a mess and they are close to physically digging them out.

And that crucially, they've determined (perhaps mistakenly) that throwing more bodies at the backlog from before is a waste of resources. (There are physical constraints that mean 3X more people for example will not fix it). And that it is NOT more equitable to delay all files (including yours as a later stage) to 'dig things out' from the first group.

So: perhaps 'unfairly' but no first come first served.

Will a court 'disapprove?' Perhaps. That doesn't matter. What matters is whether the court could (in fact) or would order meaningful redress. I'm skeptical - but if you've got the money to fund a legal challenge, there's a boat out there waiting to have your name painted on it.

Even if there were 'redress' at the AOR stage - would it matter? Because after AOR, it most obviously is not first-come, first-served.

And you've ignored the point that any comparison to the quota-driven, capped (and now defunct for precisely these reasons) investor's immigration programme is a fool's errand. The 'fundamental principle of justice' the court identified there clearly was relevant to that programme - and very much not to others.

But hey, go for it. I might note, however, this point: the case you cited was an applicant for immigration who was suing six years after his file started processing. And his writ of mandamus was denied - and it was denied not because he'd been waiting too long - but because if the writ was granted, he would have received an unjust benefit (due to principle of first-come, first-served) compared to all the people that were ahead of him.

Not to speculate too openly - but has it occurred to you that in your case, that would mean waiting until all of the applicants before you (and there are many) got handled in order?

Talk about grasping defeat from the jaws of victory.

[In case not obvious to anyone: I still think these are horrific delays and an embarrassment to Canada. But however bad that may be, that doesn't mean that all arguments or comments from those who are frustrated make sense, are truthful, or have any reasonable prospect of legal victory.]
not gonna lie, i do love these posts you do
 

malimu

Star Member
Mar 18, 2019
128
9
Ottawa
i had read minster stating they will attend to inland to unify spouses while herein Canada. i think it may suggest outland may take a while but what do i know. Took almost a year for me to get AOR since 2020 and many inlanders have not gotten AOR more than a year either after receipt of applications. so i think patience as it may be worst elsewhere.
 

Alexis1971

Hero Member
Feb 16, 2020
737
510
July 2020, Outland application, living in Canada. No AOR. Is it normal ? I do not know. Just keep in mind that, yes, blabla a lot of people are in the same situation, but also, some of them got their PR in less than 6 months lol How ? I don’t know, IRCC is so transparent, and first come, first served, is their leitmotif. IRCC is often (always ?) right, apparently, and you should understand that they’re working so so hard with a low salary...I’m feeling so bad for these workers.

PS. We’re in contact with a lawyer who helped someone that I know. They went to the federal Court and within 3 weeks, after the decision of the Court, IRCC coincidentally expedite the security process that was in progress since 26 months.
I’ll keep you informed.
Are you referring to the Writ of Mandamus case? who has money to pay another lawyer to force IRCC to do their jobs.
 

addicted2tennis

Full Member
Jul 10, 2020
25
4
Well, you aren't being delayed though you submitted it in December! September applicant here living outside of the country with no AOR.
I'm in a WhatsApp group for December applicants and the vast majority already received AOR. I read about several people who applied in 2021 who also got it. I know that June-October applications have been hugely delayed, but apparently the average waiting time for AOR for November and later applicants is way lower than for previous months. Unfortunately my application seems to be processed as slow as the pre-November ones though :(
 

expatgoingback

Hero Member
Sep 10, 2020
211
96
App. Filed.......
02-09-2020
I'm in a WhatsApp group for December applicants and the vast majority already received AOR. I read about several people who applied in 2021 who also got it. I know that June-October applications have been hugely delayed, but apparently the average waiting time for AOR for November and later applicants is way lower than for previous months. Unfortunately my application seems to be processed as slow as the pre-November ones though :(
Cry me a river.
 
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