How does CBSA know how many days you were out of Canada?

[mastersboy]

I recently received my entry/exit report from CBSA and it only contains my entries in to Canada. If CBSA doesnt record exits, then how do they know when I left Canada? I ask because I have seen multiple posts on this site where people who have not met/were very close to their RO trying to come back to Canada, then CBSA officers "knowing" how long they were away from Canada and potentially starting residency determination (sorry if I am messing up the term but essentially they start a process where they determine if you have acctually met your RO).

To summarize, if CBSA doest record exits, how do CBSA officers know which PRs entering Canada haven't met their RO?

@dpenabill @torontosm @Ponga @masood8 @mpsqra @Alurra71 - inviting you to please advise.

 

[steaky]

I'm uninvited...

But CBSA and US CBP share their information and CBSA have access to flight manifest.

 

[dpenabill]

I recently received my entry/exit report from CBSA and it only contains my entries in to Canada. If CBSA doesnt record exits, then how do they know when I left Canada? I ask because I have seen multiple posts on this site where people who have not met/were very close to their RO trying to come back to Canada, then CBSA officers "knowing" how long they were away from Canada and potentially starting residency determination (sorry if I am messing up the term but essentially they start a process where they determine if you have acctually met your RO).

To summarize, if CBSA doest record exits, how do CBSA officers know which PRs entering Canada haven't met their RO?

As @steaky observes, CBSA also has access to other sources of information.

In particular, the travel history an individual can obtain from CBSA is what personal information CBSA maintains in a database. This does not include what additional information CBSA can access from other sources to compare with information being provided to officials by an individual.

But for Canadians returning to Canada, the primary source is the PR or citizen, who is often (probably usually) asked how long they were outside Canada (for those flying, last I traveled it was asked in the declaration card). And of course for a PR, misrepresentations made during PoE examinations can lead to the loss of PR status (pursuant to amendments made to IRPA during the Harper years).

It is not always about what officials "know" but about identifying discrepancies and cross-checking information, which can lead to elevated scrutiny if and when officials perceive reason to doubt the traveler's account.

What many, many overlook and underestimate is the extent to which officials Get-It. Sure, a lot gets past them. But a real, real lot does not. For those tempted to fudge, they would have better odds playing Russian Roulette (in which, after all, the odds are actually quite good that pulling the trigger will result in a mere click, not a bang, five to one, but of course that is a profoundly suicidal gamble despite those odds).

In any event, there are scores of clues which easily reveal (to the trained, experienced eye) if and when more questions should be asked, and of course the traveler's responses will typically signal whether or the official should probe even more. Not rocket science. Basic law enforcement techniques.

 

[JHT]

As @steaky observes, CBSA also has access to other sources of information.

In particular, the travel history an individual can obtain from CBSA is what personal information CBSA maintains in a database. This does not include what additional information CBSA can access from other sources to compare with information being provided to officials by an individual.

But for Canadians returning to Canada, the primary source is the PR or citizen, who is often (probably usually) asked how long they were outside Canada (for those flying, last I traveled it was asked in the declaration card). And of course for a PR, misrepresentations made during PoE examinations can lead to the loss of PR status (pursuant to amendments made to IRPA during the Harper years).

It is not always about what officials "know" but about identifying discrepancies and cross-checking information, which can lead to elevated scrutiny if and when officials perceive reason to doubt the traveler's account.

What many, many overlook and underestimate is the extent to which officials Get-It. Sure, a lot gets past them. But a real, real lot does not. For those tempted to fudge, they would have better odds playing Russian Roulette (in which, after all, the odds are actually quite good that pulling the trigger will result in a mere click, not a bang, five to one, but of course that is a profoundly suicidal gamble despite those odds).

In any event, there are scores of clues which easily reveal (to the trained, experienced eye) if and when more questions should be asked, and of course the traveler's responses will typically signal whether or the official should probe even more. Not rocket science. Basic law enforcement techniques.

“Trained eye “
If someone travels a lot = scrutinize the heck out of them

 

[canuck78]

Would add the exit records are coming.

 

[mastersboy]

Thank you for all your responses. It is annoying that if CBSA has all this information, why don't they release it to me when I ask for my entry/exit records?

 

[dpenabill]

Thank you for all your responses. It is annoying that if CBSA has all this information, why don't they release it to me when I ask for my entry/exit records?

Well, just because they can access information does not impose a duty on them to go and collect that information for you.

REMEMBER: there is ONE BEST SOURCE of information regarding an individual's travel history (of dates exiting Canada, dates entering Canada) and that is the ONE and ONLY PERSON in the WHOLE WORLD who was for sure there each and every time and in a position to make a for-sure accurate and complete record. For YOU, that would be YOU. ONLY YOU.

Otherwise . . .

The right to obtain a copy of one's own individual travel history from CBSA is simply a subset of the ATIP (Access to Information for personal records) process. It is akin to going to the office where the records are kept and allowing an individual to see what that particular agency has in a file with the individual's name on it. Except now records are largely digitally maintained in particular databases. So, to the extent there is a "record" in a CBSA database for a particular individual, that individual is entitled to see (obtain a copy) of that record (subject to certain limitations).

As someone noted, CBSA exit history is coming. But it will likely be limited, at least for a significant period of time. For now it appears that mechanisms, the technology combined with record gathering and record-keeping processes, are being developed and implemented which will facilitate maintaining information which can be researched to reveal exit histories for individuals. BUT not in a way that is itself building a database of the individual's exit history. So the ATIP process does not, so to say, REACH such information.

That is because even though CBSA can access (that is, reach) such information, that is NOT the same as CBSA holding such information.

For example (subject to exceptions, such as for PRs who are also U.S. citizens), for a while now Canada and the U.S. have had an information sharing protocol that allows CBSA access to an individual's entry records into the U.S. for individuals entering the U.S. from Canada. This is in effect a record of that individual's exit history to the extent that the individual left Canada and entered the U.S. But CBSA does not maintain its own or otherwise a separate database of these records. So, for now, when an individual asks CBSA for travel history records, they will not (not ordinarily anyway) include that information, that is, the dates the individual exited Canada to enter the U.S. BUT CBSA can readily access that information under the information sharing protocols.

And of course CBSA will not do that, will not go and find information in another government's records, as part of responding to ATIP requests. Especially when it is information the individual asking for it has a much better and more reliable source for that information. Himself or herself. Since, again, that is the ONE and ONLY source who for-sure had the capacity to make and keep such record, as that is the ONE and ONLY source who was for-sure there for each and every one of those events (dates the individual exited Canada to enter the States).

BUT if CBSA has concerns about what an individual is reporting to them, oh yes, they can, and they do, do the research into a variety of sources looking for information that will either verify what the individual has reported or illuminate discrepancies. And then go from there.

 

[caipsnotes]

Thank you for all your responses. It is annoying that if CBSA has all this information, why don't they release it to me when I ask for my entry/exit records?

What was the response you received from CBSA?

 

[mastersboy]

What was the response you received from CBSA?

They just provided me my entry records into Canada

 

[caipsnotes]

They just provided me my entry records into Canada

You have to specifically ask for both entry and exit records, and you had asked for both?

 

[mastersboy]

You have to specifically ask for both entry and exit records, and you had asked for both?

I asked for both. Although I only have two trips outside of Canada, so not sure if they genuinely didnt have any exit records. But I am curious if folks get ANY exit records at all, ever when they apply to get their entry/exit records?

 

[caipsnotes]

I asked for both. Although I only have two trips outside of Canada, so not sure if they genuinely didnt have any exit records. But I am curious if folks get ANY exit records at all, ever when they apply to get their entry/exit records?

Have a look at this as well

https://www.cicnews.com/2020/02/canadian-government-can-now-verify-how-many-days-immigrants-and-visitors-stay-in-the-country-0213677.html#gs.tj2d1m

Traveller rights
Travellers have the right to request a copy of their personal travel history. If they find an error in their file, they may ask CBSA to correct it.

If a request to correct travel information has been made, IRCC officers are notified and are able to obtain the most up-to-date information from CBSA.

IRCC is required to comply with the Privacy Act. Officers are not authorized to disclose entry and exit information unless it is necessary for the administration of the Immigration Refugee Protection Act (IRPA) and is covered under a memorandum of understanding or similar information-sharing agreements.

CBSA has information-sharing agreements with the Royal Canadian Mountain Police (RCMP), Employment and Social Development Canada (ESDC), and the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA).

 

[mastersboy]

As an update, my spouse's ATIP entry/exit records came to and unsurprisingly there are no exit records!!!! My spouse has travelled to U.S. quite a bit so I was expecting to see at least some exits, but there are none. I am beginning to think that does anyone get any exit records at all????

 

[sislam1]

As an update, my spouse's ATIP entry/exit records came to and unsurprisingly there are no exit records!!!! My spouse has travelled to U.S. quite a bit so I was expecting to see at least some exits, but there are none. I am beginning to think that does anyone get any exit records at all????

I think every time you enter, it is automatically evident that you had also exited the country.

 

[armoured]

As an update, my spouse's ATIP entry/exit records came to and unsurprisingly there are no exit records!!!! My spouse has travelled to U.S. quite a bit so I was expecting to see at least some exits, but there are none. I am beginning to think that does anyone get any exit records at all????

In simple terms, the answer may be no, you won't get the exit records. The fact that CBSA has access to the exit records (eg from USA) or other information does not mean they 'own' or are allowed to share that information with you. (It's possible that they do not even retain all such records even when they periodically request and access the records, and even if they do, it may be subject to agreements limiting their right/responsibility to share that info).

Some of this is relatively new so we don't know yet.