A Verry Complicated Citizenship Application

[kaybi]

Hi,

I applied for my citizenship on September 28th 2023. When I applied I met all requirements. However I had exactly 1095 days physical presence. I think that got the officier reviewing my application suspicious, so my application got returned to me saying "In our file we could not verify your status in canada before you became PR".

I called IRCC in vain to try and understand the issue, since I did not receive AOR they did not have access to my application so I started guessing what was the issue and submitted my old work permit, my student permit, my taxes, the CBSA reports and letters all in different resubmissions trying to understand what the issue was. One IRCC officer even advised me to delete my application and start over and I did so.

In total they returned my application 8 times. So the 9th time I submitted was on February 24th 2024 and I received AOR on March 5th 2024. I thought I was out of the mud but it happened that the officer in charge of my application had left a note saying that he thinks that I don't meet Physical presence and sent my application to a "DN". I don't really know what "DN" means.

Now when I was submitting my last application on February 24th I no longer met the Physical Presence because of a long stay outside of Canada I had during Covid. I was missing few days and the system would not let me submit the application. So I changed one of my travel dates to be able to submit. At that point submitting my 9th application I had lost all hope for it to be accepted.

After that I received my citizenship test and passed it on April 19th 2024. I was outside of Canada so they told me to let them know when I was back. I did that with proof of my return to Canada.

Today I received an email for a microsoft teams interview and they are asking for all pages of my passport to confirm if I meet Physical Presence requirements.

Now my question here is how should I go about this interview ? I am thinking about advocating that my initial application on September 28th that got delayed for absolutely no valid reason was valid and I met all requirements and that if that agent did not return my application 8 times I would not have been in this situation.

But I am afraid they will say that my September 28th Application don't count and that they will only take into account my final application which will mean that they will reject my application and I will have to resubmit again after losing 10 months. That would be very unfair.

 

[rewefk]

That's not how any of this works.

An application that is returned is treated as if it was never submitted. There is no "initial application on September 28th". You just have one application- the one you submitted on Feb 24.
You need to meet the requirements when you submit the application, not at some point in the past when you submitted a previous application which was returned. If you didn't meet the physical presence requirements (i.e. you don't have 1095 physical presence days from Feb 24, 2019 - Feb 23, 2024) you are not eligible for grant of citizenship, and your application cannot be approved. Period.

There are no exceptions, no waivers, no officer discretion for the physical presence requirements under law. Even if the officer felt extremely sorry for you (they won't), legally they cannot approve your application.

So I changed one of my travel dates to be able to submit.

More importantly, you have a much more serious issue- misrepresentation. You deliberately lied on your application and misrepresented your travel dates. Misrepresentation carries serious criminal penalties and a 5 year prohibition on applying for citizenship again. (Again, saying I had my application returned 10 times, so I thought lying on my application the 11th time was okay, is not an excuse that's likely to work.)

Now my question here is how should I go about this interview ?

If you did not meet the physical presence requirements as of Feb 23, 2024, then your application cannot be approved.
I feel you should withdraw your application.
The other option is months, or even years, of delays to go for a hearing before a citizenship judge, who will then deny your application.

Submit a webform before the interview to withdraw your application.
At the interview, explain (upfront, don't wait to be asked) that you have already submitted a request to withdraw your application since you realized you don't meet the physical presence requirements.

Once you do finally meet the requirements, submit a new application.
It's usually a good idea to apply with a few weeks of buffer, and not with exactly 1095 days.
Also, if you are having difficulty with the application and/or documents (as is evident from the fact that your application was returned 8 times) it might be worthwhile to consult a licenced immigration and citizenship consultant or lawyer.

 

[rewefk]

I don't really know what "DN" means

Domestic Network

 

[scylla]

Hi,

I applied for my citizenship on September 28th 2023. When I applied I met all requirements. However I had exactly 1095 days physical presence. I think that got the officier reviewing my application suspicious, so my application got returned to me saying "In our file we could not verify your status in canada before you became PR".

I called IRCC in vain to try and understand the issue, since I did not receive AOR they did not have access to my application so I started guessing what was the issue and submitted my old work permit, my student permit, my taxes, the CBSA reports and letters all in different resubmissions trying to understand what the issue was. One IRCC officer even advised me to delete my application and start over and I did so.

In total they returned my application 8 times. So the 9th time I submitted was on February 24th 2024 and I received AOR on March 5th 2024. I thought I was out of the mud but it happened that the officer in charge of my application had left a note saying that he thinks that I don't meet Physical presence and sent my application to a "DN". I don't really know what "DN" means.

Now when I was submitting my last application on February 24th I no longer met the Physical Presence because of a long stay outside of Canada I had during Covid. I was missing few days and the system would not let me submit the application. So I changed one of my travel dates to be able to submit. At that point submitting my 9th application I had lost all hope for it to be accepted.

After that I received my citizenship test and passed it on April 19th 2024. I was outside of Canada so they told me to let them know when I was back. I did that with proof of my return to Canada.

Today I received an email for a microsoft teams interview and they are asking for all pages of my passport to confirm if I meet Physical Presence requirements.

Now my question here is how should I go about this interview ? I am thinking about advocating that my initial application on September 28th that got delayed for absolutely no valid reason was valid and I met all requirements and that if that agent did not return my application 8 times I would not have been in this situation.

But I am afraid they will say that my September 28th Application don't count and that they will only take into account my final application which will mean that they will reject my application and I will have to resubmit again after losing 10 months. That would be very unfair.

You will be assessed based on the last application you submitted and your residency days at the time you submitted that application. It sounds like you did not meet the residency obligation at the time you applied and also purposely falsified information in your application. Misrepresentation is taken extremely seriously by IRCC and can create big issues for you. I would very strongly recommend you try to withdraw your application and then reapply again once you meet the residency obligation. This is absolutely the best path forward.

 

[kaybi]

Thank you both for your candid responses @rewefk @scylla . I really appreciate.

Now since I said a "very complicated citizenship" there is more to it.

I am married to a Canadian citizen for 2 years now and in that time I accompanied her for over 2 months abroad. And as you know if I am accompanying my Canadian Citizen wife abroad that count as days spent in Canada. 2 Months that I did not add to my physical presence calculation because I did not need it on September 28th.

So on February 24th I did meet the physical presence requirement if you remove those 2 months from my time spent outside of Canada.

Now since the goal of this interview is to verify if I meet the physical requirements, do you think I can provide proof of Mariage and proof of those travels and count it toward my days in Canada ?

 

[scylla]

Thank you both for your candid responses @rewefk @scylla . I really appreciate.

Now since I said a "very complicated citizenship" there is more to it.

I am married to a Canadian citizen for 2 years now and in that time I accompanied her for over 2 months abroad. And as you know if I am accompanying my Canadian Citizen wife abroad that count as days spent in Canada. 2 Months that I did not add to my physical presence calculation because I did not need it on September 28th.

So on February 24th I did meet the physical presence requirement if you remove those 2 months from my time spent outside of Canada.

Now since the goal of this interview is to verify if I meet the physical requirements, do you think I can provide proof of Mariage and proof of those travels and count it toward my days in Canada ?

No. You've misunderstood the rules.

The days with your spouse only count towards the PR residency requirement. They cannot be counted towards citizenship.

So you still did not meet the physical presence requirement on Feb 24th.

Withdraw your application.

 

[kaybi]

@scylla you are absolutely right. Thank you for this precision.

So basically when an Immigration officier decides to fuck your application because of incompetence there is nothing you can do ?

No way to file a complaint in any form ?

 

[scylla]

@scylla you are absolutely right. Thank you for this precision.

So basically when an Immigration officier decides to fuck your application because of incompetence there is nothing you can do ?

No way to file a complaint in any form ?

I'm commenting on the application that's in play now (last application that was submitted). You are being called for an interview based on that specific application. They will not look at previous applications. They will only look at the application you have in play now. The issues (major issues) with that application are:
- You didn't meet the residency obligation at the time you submitted this application. This means it cannot be approved. The law allows no leniency on this matter.
- You lied and misrepresented your travel in this application to make it look like you meet the residency obligation. This is extremely serious and could result in a ban.

For your current application, you are the one f-ing with things and not IRCC. I'm a bit floored, to be honest, that you thought it would be OK to lie about your travel dates to meet the 1095 days.

For your previously returned applications, I don't know the details and it's possible IRCC may have f-ed something up there. But then you should have pursued rectifying that vs. lying in your most recent application.

IMO you are playing with fire. Your choice what you do of course.

 

[kaybi]

"But then you should have pursued rectifying that "

There is no way to rectify it. Called, Emailed and did all but nothing worked.

It's very sad that you pay years of taxes used to pay those agents and there is no efficient way to file a complaint.

The initial agent fucked me up and I will never be able to do anything about it.


I am going to talk to a Lawyer and explore possibility to file a complaint.

I did it just because they fucked up with me first and thought I will be able to make count my initial application on September 28th. Had I known that only the last application would have counted I would have never done that.

For your information tho I do know people who got citizenship in 2024 without even completing 4 months of Physical Presence. So don't think to high of IRCC or their process. It's bunch of overpaid people mostly acting like they are working instead of really working.

 

[Seym]

For your information tho I do know people who got citizenship in 2024 without even completing 4 months of Physical Presence. So don't think to high of IRCC or their process. It's bunch of overpaid people mostly acting like they are working instead of really working.

That's fraud.
This is how it may end : https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/blatantly-lying-loses-family-its-citizenship-but-earns-them-a-63k-bill-from-canadian-government

 

[kaybi]

I just called IRCC. I made the request to withdraw my application.

I will go to the interview and let the agent know I withdrew my application.

I am right now eligible to reapply but I will wait a month or 2 before I reapply.

 

[armoured]

In total they returned my application 8 times. So the 9th time I submitted was on February 24th 2024 and I received AOR on March 5th 2024. I thought I was out of the mud but it happened that the officer in charge of my application had left a note saying that he thinks that I don't meet Physical presence

The initial agent fucked me up and I will never be able to do anything about it.

I am going to talk to a Lawyer and explore possibility to file a complaint.

I did it just because they fucked up with me first and thought I will be able to make count my initial application on September 28th. Had I known that only the last application would have counted I would have never done that.

You submitted your application nine times, one of which you lied on, and you think the problem is solely due to IRCC?

The one specific case for which you have a comment, the officer said you did not meet the physical presence - and that was accurate!

Your case blaming them is not remotely credible.

Please, engage a lawyer, spend multiple tens of thousands of dollars on your complaint, let us know how that works out.

 

[forevermore76]

I just called IRCC. I made the request to withdraw my application.

I will go to the interview and let the agent know I withdrew my application.

I am right now eligible to reapply but I will wait a month or 2 before I reapply.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/canadian-citizenship/admininistration/general-file-processing/procedure-withdrawal-applications.html

Good luck

 

[kaybi]

@Seym I already cancelled my application lol

 

[LargeLanguageModelBot]

A Very Complicated Citizenship Application [No]
A Very Fraudulent Citizenship Application [Yes]