FSW WORLDWIDE

[iSaidGoodDay]

Your answer gives me a good pathway to my woes about buying a large car without burning 70k odd which has kept me shying from stepping into buying a car before I close a house.

Buying a car after buying a house is a good idea in general. Your mortgage will be impacted by your car's loan. IIRC, the car's monthly loan amount will be deducted from your income to decide what you can afford in terms of mortgage.

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

Very respectfully, if an immigration minister goes on record to say that they are "cheap labour", "lucrative assets", etc - it makes it empirical that Canada wanted them to be here for things beyond education. I don't see how Canadian govt took them as "students first" if the minister himself wasn't thinking of them as students. We need to discard this narrative now as it has failed the test of time.

Taking this conversation a bit further from old notes:

>But in addition to that, I've been very clear to say not only do we want more international students. When I travel around the world, I say that we want as many of you to stay beyond your studies, because these are young people who speak English or French or both and have studied in Canada. Why wouldn't we want these people to become our future citizens?

>And so we should do whatever it takes to incentivize them to consider Canada. And Bill C-6 is one of those incentives, because now, under Bill C-6, the time than an international student or worker spends in Canada before becoming a permanent resident is counted towards their citizenship residential requirements. So for example, up to one year. So if an international student studies in Canada for two years and then becomes a PR, he or she only has to wait two additional years to become a citizen because they get a one year time credit for the two years that they were in Canada before becoming PR.

Ref: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2017/09/speaking_notes_forahmedhussenministerofimmigrationrefugeesandcit.html

There are many such notes and talks. Let's not fool ourselves with the current narrative.

 

[DesiPikachu]

Afterall, Canada took them as student's first and expected them to be just students.

If that is the expectation then why have there been schemes like TR to PR in the past? Why have post-study work permits been extended in the past? Why were they allowed to work full time? Why are there so many PNP programs that have separate much-easier pathways for students who have graduated from institutions in that province?

Look at the USA in comparison. Beyond a 12 month post study work visa/permit (24 months for STEM grads), they give zero preferential treatment to international students.

 

[Windsor37]

Taking this conversation a bit further from old notes:

>But in addition to that, I've been very clear to say not only do we want more international students. When I travel around the world, I say that we want as many of you to stay beyond your studies, because these are young people who speak English or French or both and have studied in Canada. Why wouldn't we want these people to become our future citizens?

>And so we should do whatever it takes to incentivize them to consider Canada. And Bill C-6 is one of those incentives, because now, under Bill C-6, the time than an international student or worker spends in Canada before becoming a permanent resident is counted towards their citizenship residential requirements. So for example, up to one year. So if an international student studies in Canada for two years and then becomes a PR, he or she only has to wait two additional years to become a citizen because they get a one year time credit for the two years that they were in Canada before becoming PR.

Ref: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2017/09/speaking_notes_forahmedhussenministerofimmigrationrefugeesandcit.html

There are many such notes and talks. Let's not fool ourselves with the current narrative.

I think what I said was taken a bit out of context. Canada can say one thing like the link that you posted, but totally do something different like this: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/study-canada/study-permit/eligibility.html

One of the eligibility requirements is : prove to an officer that you will leave Canada when your study permit expires

What am I getting at? is that Canada despite of all these TR to PR statements, bonus points at express entry, LAWFULLY requires an aspiring international student to leave Canada once the study permit expires. Which explicitly says that an international student is recognized as a student first. I mean, if Canada expects the student to stay after graduation then why go out of your way to prove to the officer that you'll leave when the student permit expires; it's a waste of time. Now if something changed like the student managed to stay in Canada due to a PNP, or getting enough points, or they got a good job in Canada, then good for them and Canada has legal mechanism to allow them to stay, but there's no promise as in there's no legally binding document in the student permit that if you graduate from that program, then you'll get a good-paying job, or you'll get a PR and that you can hold the government liable for something that didn't go your way.

So why are they making these kinds of statements? For the Canadians, if they put it bluntly that they're exploiting international students do you think Canadians will vote them in power? of course not. Why do they keep handing out student visas? so international students can pay for the local Canadian tuition. Why are they allowing part-time jobs? so these students can fill the roles that Canadians don't want to, but not allowing full-time so that these students won't be allowed to compete with the local Canadians.

Now if an international student fall for these schemes and pay a through a nose, and not get a PR or a good paying job after graduating, is the government liable? ethically maybe, but legally? no. Why? check the fine print on the study permit. And what can the student do about it? nothing really, he can't even vote them out.

As for Bill C-6, it was passed by Liberals right?

https://globalnews.ca/news/2291301/immigrants-voted-liberal-by-a-landslide-and-other-things-we-learned-from-the-federal-election-results/

I mean, I don't want to play devil's advocate. I'm sure the Liberals wholeheartedly passed this bill, because of the inclusivity that the Canadian culture and ideals have right? And not some subtle way of securing a long-term majority.

If that is the expectation then why have there been schemes like TR to PR in the past? Why have post-study work permits been extended in the past? Why were they allowed to work full time? Why are there so many PNP programs that have separate much-easier pathways for students who have graduated from institutions in that province?

Look at the USA in comparison. Beyond a 12 month post study work visa/permit (24 months for STEM grads), they give zero preferential treatment to international students.

Simple, for the benefit of Canadians, if there are some shady schemes of TR to PR in the past, then more students will come and they'll pay exorbitant tuition fees so that the government has to spend less in educating local Canadians. Why were they extended in the past? In 2021, there was a labor shortage of both high-skilled and low-skilled workers, how's an easy way to fix that? extended the work permits, and then frame it as a "strong immigration policy benefitting the Canadian economy" so you can get votes when the next election comes around. Why do PNP programs have a separate much-easier pathways for students, see first statement, more students in your province the less that the local government has to pay for the education of local Canadians -> the people who can vote them out.

The US doesn't have this kind of social contract to its' people like affordable education or free healthcare, or at least not in the same degree as Canada, so it can afford not to pay for citizen's education and they don't need international student's money as much as Canada needs them.

And to further prove a point, why are we even hearing this now? Like this has been going on even before the pandemic began. Well, during the pandemic, voting Canadians got a wake-up call that they needed more people in healthcare so now the government is doing this preferential treatment for healthcare workers to get a PR, the "categorized" Express Entry was born. Today, voting Canadians are getting pinched by the high rental prices, and what does the government do? Show it can do something, it may not be the best way to go about it, but it can at least frame it, as "oh these students are the ones causing these high rental prices so were curbing international students now". And If the non-voting international student get screwed after finishing the degree, the government would just say "too bad, so sad".

And as I said, I don't feel for these international students, because I find it funny that they're smart enough to finish a vocational degree, bachelor's degree, master's OR Ph.D in Canada, but didn't have the due diligence to read the fine print when they were applying for a student permit in the first place, and somehow think that the government would just magically hand them a good job or a PR after graduation, so much so that they didn't have the foresight to make a Plan B. Either they're naive or just plain gullible.

 

[GandiBaat]

Your answer gives me a good pathway to my woes about buying a large car without burning 70k odd which has kept me shying from stepping into buying a car before I close a house.

My general thinking has been : If you want to know which car you should get for your daily driver, look what cars in taxis are popular. Do check out with a mechanic as well. The place I live has a very decent bus connectivity so I never had to bother.

 

[GandiBaat]

What am I getting at? is that Canada despite of all these TR to PR statements, bonus points at express entry, LAWFULLY requires an aspiring international student to leave Canada once the study permit expires. Which explicitly says that an international student is recognized as a student first. I mean, if Canada expects the student to stay after graduation then why go out of your way to prove to the officer that you'll leave when the student permit expires; it's a waste of time. Now if something changed like the student managed to stay in Canada due to a PNP, or getting enough points, or they got a good job in Canada, then good for them and Canada has legal mechanism to allow them to stay, but there's no promise as in there's no legally binding document in the student permit that if you graduate from that program, then you'll get a good-paying job, or you'll get a PR and that you can hold the government liable for something that didn't go your way.

Oh man!

I had a very detailed discussion on this with a lawyer. It was in context of work permits but it applies to this as well. Here is the gist.

IRCC LIES. Like any fukken good Canadian, IRCC actually LIES on their work permit and study permit documents. One of the conditions they mention on study permit and work permit has language like this "MUST LEAVE CANADA BY YYYY/MM/DD". This is a BAREFACED lie. Do you know why?

Because it is NOT really a condition. Had it been really a condition then work permit and study permit extension would have required you to exit canada and possibly enter back in. That is NOT required.

Additionally, you would have been required to NOT extend your work permit and study permit.

Actually, there are countries where this condition is REAL. Like Australia, which actually imposes (sometimes) a condition on its visitor visa called as 8503 "No further stay" and if that condition is imposed, you can not switch to a new visa or extend your visa. Even in Canada there are some status transitions that are not allowed. Like you can not anymore restore your visa from study permit to visitor or you can not switch from visitor to work permit (though currently that is allowed under a temporary public policy).

The lawyer mentioned that this has been debated in court. Actually, what is needed of you is to NOT BREAK ANY LAW and ESPECIALLY IMMIGRATION LAWS. Those are codified in IRPA and IRPR. And they REQUIRE a foreigner to have a valid status in canada if they want to stay in canada.

So what really is required of you is to have a valid status (and that included Implied or Maintained Status).

Its another example of how this country says something and means something totally different.

Once, IRCC rejected someone work permit application with a reason that by requesting to extend his work permit, the person is violating his "LEAVE CANADA BY X" condition and it is an indication of violating immigration laws. The person's lawyer argued that this is bullshit because by attempting to seek a new status, the person is indicating to work within canadian immigration laws. The court agreed with that person and his work permit extension was re-assessed by a different officer.

TL; DR : Have a word with a lawyer to understand what the damn Canadian government wants when it comes to immigration because Canada LIES about what you should be really doing.

PS: That being said, you are right that study permit does not imply that you are entitled to a PR. Each application for any new status is adjudged on its own merit.

 

[Windsor37]

Oh man!

I had a very detailed discussion on this with a lawyer. It was in context of work permits but it applies to this as well. Here is the gist.

IRCC LIES. Like any fukken good Canadian, IRCC actually LIES on their work permit and study permit documents. One of the conditions they mention on study permit and work permit has language like this "MUST LEAVE CANADA BY YYYY/MM/DD". This is a BAREFACED lie. Do you know why?

Because it is NOT really a condition. Had it been really a condition then work permit and study permit extension would have required you to exit canada and possibly enter back in. That is NOT required.

Additionally, you would have been required to NOT extend your work permit and study permit.

Actually, there are countries where this condition is REAL. Like Australia, which actually imposes (sometimes) a condition on its visitor visa called as 8503 "No further stay" and if that condition is imposed, you can not switch to a new visa or extend your visa. Even in Canada there are some status transitions that are not allowed. Like you can not anymore restore your visa from study permit to visitor or you can not switch from visitor to work permit (though currently that is allowed under a temporary public policy).

The lawyer mentioned that this has been debated in court. Actually, what is needed of you is to NOT BREAK ANY LAW and ESPECIALLY IMMIGRATION LAWS. Those are codified in IRPA and IRPR. And they REQUIRE a foreigner to have a valid status in canada if they want to stay in canada.

So what really is required of you is to have a valid status (and that included Implied or Maintained Status).

But that's the point right? Canada in the beginning assumes that you do NOT have an intention to have a valid status AFTER you finished your studies. If a student who finished their studies is too lazy to work on their PR, or get a PGWP or get a job in Canada after their graduation, has let their student visa expire and a random CSBA/IRCC officer did an audit and asked for a deportation order, can the student actually go to court, and win on the premise that "you can't deport me, because I finished my studies here"?

Now if the student managed to get a good job, or be eligible for a PR, then the government have a legal mechanism to transition their student permit to a PGWP, OWP or Permanent Residency to help them stay in Canada, but it's not the other way around, meaning it's NOT because there the government have a legal mechanism to transition their student permit to a PGWP, OWP or Permanent Residency to help them stay in Canada, then the student will manage to get a good job, and be eligible for a PR.

The burden of securing a job in Canada, befalls on the students abilities and the Canadian job market. If the student blindly takes a business degree because it's something they're interested in, or it's something they find it convenient or easy, but didn't have the foresight to the check if the Canadian job market is actually looking for business degrees; whose fault is that?

Its another example of how this country says something and means something totally different.

Once, IRCC rejected someone work permit application with a reason that by requesting to extend his work permit, the person is violating his "LEAVE CANADA BY X" condition and it is an indication of violating immigration laws. The person's lawyer argued that this is bullshit because by attempting to seek a new status, the person is indicating to work within canadian immigration laws. The court agreed with that person and his work permit extension was re-assessed by a different officer.

That makes sense because extending your work permit is actually legal: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/work-canada/permit/temporary/extend/eligibility.html . But in this scenario, he is EMPLOYED and my guess is likely in a profession he's good at, the issue is here is for students who are in PGWP but can't find an employer willing to take them in either because they lack the skills or simply because there's a lack of employers looking for their skillset. They get screwed, and somehow it's the government's fault for giving them a student permit in the first place.

And this is where I find CBC's article ridiculous because it portrays that the government should be linking "international students" to the "job market"; and the worst part is that Marc Miller fell for it. This shouldn't be case because international students should be coming to Canada with the intention of studying. Now if their situation changes OR they actually intend to stay longer in the first place AND they managed to make Canada work for them then yes, the government should give them a smooth pathway of staying here, but the burden of figuring how to make Canada work for them falls on the student, not on the government. Meaning they should have made their due diligence of understanding Canada's labor market, how their skill set aligns to it, and how the education they paid so much to take in Canada helps them to thrive in it.

If they want to study business degrees in Canada for whatever reason, then great, more money for the Canadian universities and makes education cheaper for the local Canadian population, but if they want to stay here long-term then they should figure out how it plays in the end, how difficult or easy it is to get a job, and more importantly understand that they can financially tolerate the accompanying risk of what they're doing.

TL; DR : Have a word with a lawyer to understand what the damn Canadian government wants when it comes to immigration because Canada LIES about what you should be really doing.

PS: That being said, you are right that study permit does not imply that you are entitled to a PR. Each application for any new status is adjudged on its own merit.

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

I think what I said was taken a bit out of context. Canada can say one thing like the link that you posted, but totally do something different like this: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/study-canada/study-permit/eligibility.html

One of the eligibility requirements is : prove to an officer that you will leave Canada when your study permit expires

What am I getting at? is that Canada despite of all these TR to PR statements, bonus points at express entry, LAWFULLY requires an aspiring international student to leave Canada once the study permit expires. Which explicitly says that an international student is recognized as a student first. I mean, if Canada expects the student to stay after graduation then why go out of your way to prove to the officer that you'll leave when the student permit expires; it's a waste of time. Now if something changed like the student managed to stay in Canada due to a PNP, or getting enough points, or they got a good job in Canada, then good for them and Canada has legal mechanism to allow them to stay, but there's no promise as in there's no legally binding document in the student permit that if you graduate from that program, then you'll get a good-paying job, or you'll get a PR and that you can hold the government liable for something that didn't go your way.

So why are they making these kinds of statements? For the Canadians, if they put it bluntly that they're exploiting international students do you think Canadians will vote them in power? of course not. Why do they keep handing out student visas? so international students can pay for the local Canadian tuition. Why are they allowing part-time jobs? so these students can fill the roles that Canadians don't want to, but not allowing full-time so that these students won't be allowed to compete with the local Canadians.

Now if an international student fall for these schemes and pay a through a nose, and not get a PR or a good paying job after graduating, is the government liable? ethically maybe, but legally? no. Why? check the fine print on the study permit. And what can the student do about it? nothing really, he can't even vote them out.

As for Bill C-6, it was passed by Liberals right?

https://globalnews.ca/news/2291301/immigrants-voted-liberal-by-a-landslide-and-other-things-we-learned-from-the-federal-election-results/

I mean, I don't want to play devil's advocate. I'm sure the Liberals wholeheartedly passed this bill, because of the inclusivity that the Canadian culture and ideals have right? And not some subtle way of securing a long-term majority.



Simple, for the benefit of Canadians, if there are some shady schemes of TR to PR in the past, then more students will come and they'll pay exorbitant tuition fees so that the government has to spend less in educating local Canadians. Why were they extended in the past? In 2021, there was a labor shortage of both high-skilled and low-skilled workers, how's an easy way to fix that? extended the work permits, and then frame it as a "strong immigration policy benefitting the Canadian economy" so you can get votes when the next election comes around. Why do PNP programs have a separate much-easier pathways for students, see first statement, more students in your province the less that the local government has to pay for the education of local Canadians -> the people who can vote them out.

The US doesn't have this kind of social contract to its' people like affordable education or free healthcare, or at least not in the same degree as Canada, so it can afford not to pay for citizen's education and they don't need international student's money as much as Canada needs them.

And to further prove a point, why are we even hearing this now? Like this has been going on even before the pandemic began. Well, during the pandemic, voting Canadians got a wake-up call that they needed more people in healthcare so now the government is doing this preferential treatment for healthcare workers to get a PR, the "categorized" Express Entry was born. Today, voting Canadians are getting pinched by the high rental prices, and what does the government do? Show it can do something, it may not be the best way to go about it, but it can at least frame it, as "oh these students are the ones causing these high rental prices so were curbing international students now". And If the non-voting international student get screwed after finishing the degree, the government would just say "too bad, so sad".

And as I said, I don't feel for these international students, because I find it funny that they're smart enough to finish a vocational degree, bachelor's degree, master's OR Ph.D in Canada, but didn't have the due diligence to read the fine print when they were applying for a student permit in the first place, and somehow think that the government would just magically hand them a good job or a PR after graduation, so much so that they didn't have the foresight to make a Plan B. Either they're naive or just plain gullible.

You seem to miss the entire point of what I wrote and what everyone else wrote. We are not saying anyone is entitled to anything. But saying that Canadian govt never used this as a carrot to entice students, saying that they never really wanted these many int'l students has failed the test of time. The fact that an immigration minister is on record saying that PGWP is being abused or whatever is complete bs - that's something they already knew was going to happen. They just change the narrative after every 6 months and we go "oh look, even Marc Miller is saying that PGWPs are bad" - well, we should remember, this is the same dude who said I won't cut down on immigration and it is necessary not too long ago.

Almost everyone is calling IRCC's bs out now:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1789097091588866325

The crisis, problems, etc whatever we see right now is purely because of IRCC's own failures:
1. Temporary workers had no idea that millions of others were also coming here as these numbers weren't published anywhere. Look at the interest levels dying right now just to see how much impact knowing those numbers actually made.
2. Canadians were kept in dark by never being made aware of the extremely sharp population increase and they had no say in it.

Let's focus on who is wrong instead of beating the weak.

 

[Windsor37]

You seem to miss the entire point of what I wrote and what everyone else wrote. We are not saying anyone is entitled to anything. But saying that Canadian govt never used this as a carrot to entice students, saying that they never really wanted these many int'l students has failed the test of time. The fact that an immigration minister is on record saying that PGWP is being abused or whatever is complete bs - that's something they already knew was going to happen. They just change the narrative after every 6 months and we go "oh look, even Marc Miller is saying that PGWPs are bad" - well, we should remember, this is the same dude who said I won't cut down on immigration and it is necessary not too long ago.

Almost everyone is calling IRCC's bs out now:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1789097091588866325

The crisis, problems, etc whatever we see right now is purely because of IRCC's own failures:
1. Temporary workers had no idea that millions of others were also coming here as these numbers weren't published anywhere. Look at the interest levels dying right now just to see how much impact knowing those numbers actually made.
2. Canadians were kept in dark by never being made aware of the extremely sharp population increase and they had no say in it.

Let's focus on who is wrong instead of beating the weak.

Dude I only had to look at the price difference between international tuition and domestic tuition once to figure out that the Canadian government is using the TR-PR scheme as a money making scheme for Canadian universities and that Canada wanted to give out as may student visas as possible. So yeah I know this TR-PR is a carrot.

What I'm highlighting here is that nobody placed a gun to these students and told them to study in Canada, they willingly went to Canada with their hopes and dreams but didn't plan it through how they'll make it here, or didn't even read the fine print on what they're signing up for.

You mean these?

https://open.canada.ca/data/en/dataset/90115b00-f9b8-49e8-afa3-b4cff8facaee
https://open.canada.ca/data/en/dataset/360024f2-17e9-4558-bfc1-3616485d65b9

IRCC updates these monthly, but apparently if the economy is doing alright, nobody bats an eye, but when the economy dips, they look at this, and everybody loses their minds.

 

[GandiBaat]

But that's the point right? Canada in the beginning assumes that you do NOT have an intention to have a valid status AFTER you finished your studies. If a student who finished their studies is too lazy to work on their PR, or get a PGWP or get a job in Canada after their graduation, has let their student visa expire and a random CSBA/IRCC officer did an audit and asked for a deportation order, can the student actually go to court, and win on the premise that "you can't deport me, because I finished my studies here"?

Actually, the language is SAME in both the temporary resident authorizations : Study Permit, Work Permit. "MUST LEAVE CANADA BY YYYY/MM/DD". It should read, "UNLESS HAVING A SUBSEQUENT STATUS, MUST LEAVE CANADA BY YYYY/MM/DD".

Now if the student managed to get a good job, or be eligible for a PR, then the government have a legal mechanism to transition their student permit to a PGWP, OWP or Permanent Residency to help them stay in Canada, but it's not the other way around, meaning it's NOT because there the government have a legal mechanism to transition their student permit to a PGWP, OWP or Permanent Residency to help them stay in Canada, then the student will manage to get a good job, and be eligible for a PR.

You do not need a job for a PGWP. You only need to complete your studies in an eligible course at an eligible school/university. Secondly, by having a mechanism to move to a different status, the condition on earlier status itself becomes absurd. You have a study (or work permit) which demands you to leave Canada by a certain date. Now that you have another status from a different date (which may start beyond the date of your original status), you are in principle violating the condition.

And all of this absurdity is because Canada lying on its permits. IRCC has in past tried to argue that a student of worker should leave canada and should not seek a new status. They have been corrected by court that such a reason is wrong.

Point is simple: IRCC itself is not really being honest about the laws.

 

[GandiBaat]

And this is where I find CBC's article ridiculous because it portrays that the government should be linking "international students" to the "job market"; and the worst part is that Marc Miller fell for it. This shouldn't be case because international students should be coming to Canada with the intention of studying. Now if their situation changes OR they actually intend to stay longer in the first place AND they managed to make Canada work for them then yes, the government should give them a smooth pathway of staying here, but the burden of figuring how to make Canada work for them falls on the student, not on the government. Meaning they should have made their due diligence of understanding Canada's labor market, how their skill set aligns to it, and how the education they paid so much to take in Canada helps them to thrive in it.

If they want to study business degrees in Canada for whatever reason, then great, more money for the Canadian universities and makes education cheaper for the local Canadian population, but if they want to stay here long-term then they should figure out how it plays in the end, how difficult or easy it is to get a job, and more importantly understand that they can financially tolerate the accompanying risk of what they're doing.

Immigration and job seeking are not really linked. For students, completing a certain study makes them eligible for a work permit nothing more. That being said, one can not absolve government for having policies that are divorced from reality. If unemployment levels are high, it should lower the intake of students in fields with high unemployment.

 

[Windsor37]

Actually, the language is SAME in both the temporary resident authorizations : Study Permit, Work Permit. "MUST LEAVE CANADA BY YYYY/MM/DD". It should read, "UNLESS HAVING A SUBSEQUENT STATUS, MUST LEAVE CANADA BY YYYY/MM/DD".

But it doesn't have to be, law states (https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2002-227/section-183.html):
"(b.1) the day on which the second of their permits becomes invalid, in the case of a temporary resident who has been issued a work permit and a study permit;"

So if a student on a study permit transition to a work permit, the second permit will be the work permit, and that supersedes the study permit's LEAVE BY date.

You do not need a job for a PGWP. You only need to complete your studies in an eligible course at an eligible school/university. Secondly, by having a mechanism to move to a different status, the condition on earlier status itself becomes absurd.

No it doesn't because Canada doesn't know that you want to transition to another status, in fact Canada assumes that you don't want to transition to another status by indicating a LEAVE BY date. Imagine if a study permit is given to an international student, but the permit also says "can remain in Canada indefinitely" or "leave when desired". Now that's absurd, and again if you transition to another status the former's LEAVE BY date gets invalidated.

You have a study (or work permit) which demands you to leave Canada by a certain date. Now that you have another status from a different date (which may start beyond the date of your original status), you are in principle violating the condition.

Same point's as previous, law says the second permit, in which case the work permit, overrides the original LEAVE BY date. You cannot violate a condition you're no longer a subject of.

And all of this absurdity is because Canada lying on its permits. IRCC has in past tried to argue that a student of worker should leave canada and should not seek a new status. They have been corrected by court that such a reason is wrong.

Point is simple: IRCC itself is not really being honest about the laws.

I'm not sure where you're getting that but looking at the website: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/work-canada/permit/temporary/eligibility.html

Eligibility requirements if you apply from inside Canada

You can only apply for a work permit from inside Canada if

• you have a valid study or work permit

That said if I'm a student trying to research if I can apply for a work permit inside Canada, I think this answers the question quite clearly. And if I'm not sure despite that information or maybe there's a case specific to me, then I should do the common sense thing and go talk to an reputable immigration lawyer.

Immigration and job seeking are not really linked. For students, completing a certain study makes them eligible for a work permit nothing more. That being said, one can not absolve government for having policies that are divorced from reality. If unemployment levels are high, it should lower the intake of students in fields with high unemployment.

If unemployment levels are high, the government should revoke the privilege of international students to work and penalize any company who hire them. That way the government can still rake in the sweet international tuition fee so as not to introduce a financial shock to the education system that relies quite heavily on these international student fees so much, while making sure these students cannot participate in the labor market at all.

But let's be real, unemployment is not the reason why the government is reducing international students, it's housing and with that sky high rental costs, it's affecting the voting Canadian population's perception of the government, a group of people which they desperately need to be on the good side of next year.

The Canadian immigration system is designed to benefit Canadians, not the incoming immigrants, whether its high-skilled labor, cheaper labor, or taking huge amount of tuition fees to keep universities going, it's all for the benefit of Canadians. If an aspiring immigrant can find a mutual benefit despite all of this then good for them, but if not ,the government shouldn't take the blame because they didn't force them to go to Canada in the first place. It's their decision; risk, reward and consequence included.

If anything else, the only thing that the government cannot be absolved of is the policies they enacted that negatively affected the local Canadians, for example, they let in too much that it drove rental prices sky high to the point that it affected Canadian citizens.

And while I don't personally approve of what they're doing to international students, like taking the huge disparities in tuition, I mean 2x or maybe 3x, is reasonable but like 4x or 5x that's insane. I also don't take the side of the students who aspire to use the study in Canada path to a PR, but didn't make a plan B if things go awry; the intention itself is fine, but not having a backup plan is their fault. It's like taking a business risk, where you want all the rewards but none of the consequences.

 

[Lord_Tony]

My general thinking has been : If you want to know which car you should get for your daily driver, look what cars in taxis are popular. Do check out with a mechanic as well. The place I live has a very decent bus connectivity so I never had to bother.

Only problem is Uber each one comes in his own car and I see more Fords because they are some of the cheapest I guess

 

[abhiram.kumar]

Backdoor entry into Canada????

SP + PGP + CEC is as front door as it gets! At one point, there were CEC only draws for many months! Its the proverbial flagship immigration program. of Canada.
SP + PNP (Provincial graduates) is as front door as it gets! It is the proverbial flagship provincial nomination immigration program of canada!

Canada famously have very very active pathways for Canadian graduated folks to PR.
TR to PR can at worst be thought as a side door because government of Canada only opened it. LOL!

There was no backdoor entry. Canada was admitting students through a WIDE open front door. It was bait and switch. They baited them with shoddy immigration programs like TR to PR and then switched with NoC and french specific draws.

Its quite funny to see how some folks will bend over backwards to absolve main culprit in this sordid affair ie Canadian government! Remember folks, these were not people coming on boats or anything. These were people who were sold dream of PR (fully endrosed by Canadian government by their actions like TR to PR and PR pathways for students) by Canada. Sure as hell those students were suckers and got duped. Canadians were also suckered into accepting literal gangsters due to extremely shoddy vetting and equally shoddy diploma mills.

And no, Conservatives will do damn nothing about it. Canada has a famous policy of leaving their collaborators in sordid affair hanging high and dry. They left their own countrymen so these are just foreign students. They will be stuffed in files and burried in some ottawa office storage and nothing will be done. Its very canadian to not do anything about it and twiddle their thumbs.

What you talk about did not even exist in the pre - pandemic years. There was no such thing as “CEC only draws”. There were General Draws and PNP draws in which CEC candidates were eligible to apply for if they met the points threshold. Those adhoc programs were introduced by the Liberal government as temporary measures to address the so called “labour shortage”. In essence, they turned a very good system into the shitshow that we see today. You are right in the sense that the Feds are equally responsible for this mess. However, even in the pre pandemic days, a students visa was never a guarantee to permanent residency. There are international students who don’t want to stay after their education. It’s agents in countries like India who lure these guys in and then some of the students themselves, who use the visa like a backdoor entry into Canada. Once they get in, they begin to work. The entire student visa regime was riddled with fraud and every level of government, the education industry and the students themselves are equally responsible in this mess.

 

[abhiram.kumar]

And as I said, I don't feel for these international students, because I find it funny that they're smart enough to finish a vocational degree, bachelor's degree, master's OR Ph.D in Canada, but didn't have the due diligence to read the fine print when they were applying for a student permit in the first place, and somehow think that the government would just magically hand them a good job or a PR after graduation, so much so that they didn't have the foresight to make a Plan B. Either they're naive or just plain gullible.

Roflmao. PHD holders?? Hahaha. Miller released a report stating that a staggering number of these beggars study bullshit business management and commerce programs which have absolutely worthless prospects in Canada. If they were actually in healthcare, they would have been gifted PR. Most of these beggars you see on the streets are neither in healthcare or STEM.