why the genuicity of a marry is investigated like this?

[canuck_in_uk]

For whatever reason, it is considered more 'normal' for an old guy to marry a young woman, than vice versa

I believe the reason is a holdover from the old days, the traditional view that the purpose of marriage is to have children and that everyone wants to have children. Basically, the view was "what normal young guy would give up having kids to marry an old woman". If a 50 year old guy married a 25 year old girl, that was fine because she could still "give him children". If a 50 year old woman married a 25 year old guy, she was (this is prior to the creation of fertility treatments) beyond her child-bearing years and couldn't "give him children".

In Western countries, it's now acceptable to not want kids and also possible for a woman to have children much later in life, so it's not really a strange thing anymore to see older women with younger men. But in many cultures and countries around the world, not wanting children is still seen as very abnormal, so a man giving up his chance to have kids to be with an older woman is seen as abnormal. Anything that is seen as abnormal within a culture is a red flag for CIC.

 

[soblue3]

I believe the reason is a holdover from the old days, the traditional view that the purpose of marriage is to have children and that everyone wants to have children. Basically, the view was "what normal young guy would give up having kids to marry an old woman". If a 50 year old guy married a 25 year old girl, that was fine because she could still "give him children". If a 50 year old woman married a 25 year old guy, she was (this is prior to the creation of fertility treatments) beyond her child-bearing years and couldn't "give him children".

In Western countries, it's now acceptable to not want kids and also possible for a woman to have children much later in life, so it's not really a strange thing anymore to see older women with younger men. But in many cultures and countries around the world, not wanting children is still seen as very abnormal, so a man giving up his chance to have kids to be with an older woman is seen as abnormal. Anything that is seen as abnormal within a culture is a red flag for CIC.

But that is so bogus...considering canada population growth is close to 0 and that is with all the immigrants they accept each year.. That is exactly because many many canadians do not want children. also some people from other countries do not want children as well. also in many of the cases on Canlii the women are still at a child bearing age...i am not talking about 60 year olds marrying 20 year olds...but even then who is to say they can not have feelings for each other.

 

[on-hold]

But that is so bogus...considering canada population growth is 0 and that is with all the immigrants they accept each year.. That is exactly because many many canadians do not want children. also some people from other countries do not want children as well. also in many of the cases on Canlii the women are still at a child bearing age...i am not talking about 60 year olds marrying 20 year olds...but even then who is to say they can not have feelings for each other.

No, I agree -- this cannot be avoided, if you are going to have people evaluating whether a relationship is 'real' or not, and there are always going to be mistakes made. In your specific case, I would emphasize that since you are a EU citizen, your husband doesn't have the motivation of trying to immigrate to an OECD country (apologies if Turkey is one of these), since you could just as easily settle anywhere in the EU.

 

[soblue3]

No, I agree -- this cannot be avoided, if you are going to have people evaluating whether a relationship is 'real' or not, and there are always going to be mistakes made. In your specific case, I would emphasize that since you are a EU citizen, your husband doesn't have the motivation of trying to immigrate to an OECD country (apologies if Turkey is one of these), since you could just as easily settle anywhere in the EU.

I thnk you are confusing me with the original poster of this thread...but actually i also have EU citizenship and Canadian as well...but i dont think turkey is in the EU yet.

oops i just checked and for last year the population growth has increased to 1.1....but close to zero for many years, sorry have not looked at those stats recently but that still includes the 200,000 or so immigrants

 

[keesio]

I believe the reason is a holdover from the old days, the traditional view that the purpose of marriage is to have children and that everyone wants to have children. Basically, the view was "what normal young guy would give up having kids to marry an old woman". If a 50 year old guy married a 25 year old girl, that was fine because she could still "give him children". If a 50 year old woman married a 25 year old guy, she was (this is prior to the creation of fertility treatments) beyond her child-bearing years and couldn't "give him children".

In Western countries, it's now acceptable to not want kids and also possible for a woman to have children much later in life, so it's not really a strange thing anymore to see older women with younger men. But in many cultures and countries around the world, not wanting children is still seen as very abnormal, so a man giving up his chance to have kids to be with an older woman is seen as abnormal. Anything that is seen as abnormal within a culture is a red flag for CIC.

This is part of the reason. But simply the other fact is that historically, men have usually been older. In some cultures, it is not even a big deal if the man is much much older. But it would be a big deal if the woman is even a little bit older. Even in developed countries this holds to some degree (Korea for example). Couples from western countries (where both is from the west) have more leeway but even then it is acknowledged that men tend to prefer younger women while women don't mind an older partner as much.

 

[ninakap30]

the visa office hasn't even gotten her application yet!

Nina - you don't know how your package will be handled, so why assume it won't be "accepted"? there is no point in expecting the worst if you have a solid relationship and can express that in your application.

yes but ı am really worrıed...we had many red flags...for CIC.not for us.....really ı left all for hım and ı came here and we have a bıg backround...provıdıng thıs proofs from fcb sınce 2007 because that wht we use...ı read somewhere that fcb or ınternet conversatıons are on the bootom of CIC.but ı have just only thıs...ı dotn kno what to expect..streesed and mıxed..lookıng the forum ı read many storıes that were rejected and accordıng to me wer e genuıne...

 

[rhcohen2014]

lookıng the forum ı read many storıes that were rejected and accordıng to me wer e genuıne...

you do not know what the specifics were in those applications. even if someone was sharing their story, they could have left out important information that was in the application. and you don't know if what was shared is even the truth! you can't go assuming your application is going to be rejected because you read stories about people you don't even know. every application is unique. no two are the same. just because another couple got rejected for a specific reason doesn't mean YOU will. i really think the rejection rate is minimal compared to how many applications are submitted.

I have a hard time understanding what benefit is received from assuming the worst is going to happen? Why not expect approval and look forward to a great life together? Please stop reading other people's stories and twisting them to relate to your own. It will make life much easier and more enjoyable during this long, frustrating process. it's not worth stressing over if the relationship is ongoing, real, and known to other people.

 

[soblue3]

I think that since you are staying with your husband it is not that important to have as much of internet communication documents. I think maybe if you can get the lease from landlords, any proof of joined finances, letters from people who know you there. any pictures of you two together. You can include some internet communication from before you were leaving together but i think the immigration will put more weight to any proof you have from the past two years that you have been with him. so any ids with common address, any bills and stuff like that. I think that if you have a solid proof of staying with him since the marriage then you should not have much problems.

 

[soblue3]

Also, i believe you either need to move to canada before you bring him or have proof that you are moving here and have a job arrangement or place to stay and means of supporting yourself and him.

 

[rhcohen2014]

Also, i believe you either need to move to canada before you bring him or have proof that you are moving here and have a job arrangement or place to stay and means of supporting yourself and him.

CIC looks for a solid plan for sponsor's return, not necessarily concrete arrangements. it is difficult to obtain a job offer and start renting a place prior to moving there, and i think CIC is aware of this. it seems getting letters of support from family, and/or showing research done on locations/industries works to convince the officers of intent to return.

 

[jomz]

but more often than not it is the age gap..if you read the CanLii....the prevalent theme is the age gap...why others in exactly the same situation but no age gaps get accepted with no problem..read about the case of Aquarian..and many others like that

I don't think its only the age difference alone. It can be the age difference plus the fact that the principal applicant comes from a country where marrying older and/or divorced women is culturally not accepted. My husband is Moroccan, I am not, I am 5 years older than my husband, he was approved for PR in less than half the CIC posted time for Rabat VO. Age difference in our case was a non issue because 1. we have known each other almost 2 years before we married a year ago. 2. I traveled 6 times to Morocco and stayed there for a minimum of 1 month each time. 3. I am muslim so we share the same religion (I converted 2 years before I met my husband) Specifically this was important for the VO based on notes, commented that I am a practicing muslim girl who covers and wears hijab which is very desirable in the moroccan culture. 4. We had a traditional engagement ceremony and later a big wedding reception with a large family attendance including many of his family members who flew in to Morocco from Europe for our wedding. 5. Never married before/no kids.

Honestly I think if we did not have points 1-5 in our favour we would now be dealing with a rejected PR application and appeal.

soblue3, I understand your frustration with the process, but the truth is that that applicants are assessed based on accepted norms/culture of their country and not what may be accepted in Canada. The whole point is that if your husband was already a PR in Canada and married you, CIC or a visa office abroad would have nothing to do with judging your marriage, you would simply be married and start your life together in Canada as both of you would already be entitled to be in Canada. And as for falling in love with someone abroad, everyone runs the risk of being rejected for PR, my husband and I already had a plan B and C in place just in case, as nothing in life is guaranteed. The truth is that we can't expect the Canadian government to hand out PRs to anyone just because they married a Canadian Citizen or a PR.

 

[ninakap30]

CIC looks for a solid plan for sponsor's return, not necessarily concrete arrangements. it is difficult to obtain a job offer and start renting a place prior to moving there, and i think CIC is aware of this. it seems getting letters of support from family, and/or showing research done on locations/industries works to convince the officers of intent to return.

for thıs subject ı enclosed:letter from my frıend that she is ın Canada sayıng that she wıll gıve us hospıtalıty tıll we get on foot wıth my husband when we get there...ı have also updated my cv ın a sıte for jobs and they answered me that my cv looked ınterstıng and ıf we could arrange a meeıtng...ı answered them that ı do not lıve ın canada now and ıf they cuuld make me a job ınvıtatıon..of course they answered me that ı must be ın Canada physıcally...so ı enclosed thıs....2 letters from a dentıst that works wıth my hubby that he ıs aware of our ıntentıon to move to canada and one of hıs best frıend...ı really could not collect somethıng more...apart from thıs ın my applıcatıon ı enclosed one latter sayıng them that ı really donot want to go alone....and fınd a work..explaınıng them that we had a relatıosnhıp by dıstance and after we gor marrıed tıll ı move to Turkey agaın we lıved seperated,so ı dont want to lıve ıt agaın...Greece and >Turey are too near ı could vısıt my hubby Canada from Turkey ıs tooo far...hope ı convınce them

 

[ninakap30]

Also, i believe you either need to move to canada before you bring him or have proof that you are moving here and have a job arrangement or place to stay and means of supporting yourself and him.

ın fact wıth cıc u dot know what to waıt...ın case that ı go(that really ı cant make thıs step alone)maybe they consıder that we are not genuıne..you cant know from whıch optıon they wıll thınk

 

[truesmile]

Ok this "age gap" thing REALLY depends on the VO. REALLY! No one has even hinted at that yet. In Philippines for example, (yes SE Asia) it is QUITE acceptable to see a 20-something woman walking down the beach with a 'retired' Westerner. Now I'm exaggerating a bit, you don't see it ALL the time, but it is not "glared" upon with contempt like it might do in another country. In another VO (perhaps a difficult one like Ankara or Singapore), then it's a different story.

 

[mikeymyke]

Yup Singapore is absolutely brutal. They reject 28% of applications, with a 30 month processing time. Interviews require an astonishing 24 month wait time. There's no other visa office like it in the world. And guess which VO my wife has to go through? It's no surprise given the countries Singapore has to deal with are high risk marriage fraud countries.

Islamabad Pakistan might have a longer processing time with 32 months, but at least they only reject 19%.