What to do when employer refuses to provide letter of employment.

[OhCanadiana]

Consider asking the Bank Manager (or Assistant Manager) to verify that the role as described by the employment agency is true. That way they won't need to write their own letter, which may be against policy, but you can address CIC's concern. It also won't be perceived as simply insistent by the bank manager.

In this case, I would simply write a note to the bank manager explaining that you realize bank policy is not to write employment letters for people who work through employment agencies and explaining that CIC has requested additional information (first two paragraphs of GinnyPi's letter). Go on to explain that you received a letter from the employment agency which you submitted to CIC but CIC advised you that "You submitted a confirmation of employment issued by xyz employment agency describing your duties and conditions of employment with the bank as an Accounting Technician. I have concerns regarding your duties and responsibilities as an Accounting Technician because this information is not supported by evidence from the Bank of Montreal, for which you performed these duties." Therefore, you were hoping she could review it and verify that it does represent the role you actually performed at the bank or advise who could do so. Perhaps mention you'd greatly appreciate if she could jot a quick note down on the margin of the letter. This way she'll more likely need to reply either saying she can or explaining that it's also something she cannot do and you can either send the validated letter to CIC or send her reply explaining that she cannot help you due to bank policy and you can forward that to CIC to show that you've tried and that the bank doesn't disagree with the role but just doesn't offer letters in these cases or other means for you to validate the duties.

Good luck!

 

[sabidhawan]

I would also suggest contacting a lawyer at this stage . If your bank get a call from lawyer it puts them under pressure to provide you with one .

 

[ssparkles]

Pippin - Last year I tried getting a letter from a senior co-worker as I didn't have a direct supervisor (I just had a manager). But the co-worker chickened out because they knew the manager didn't give me one and didn't want to be responsible for anything. I however went out yesterday to meet some friends who work at the bank but at higher positions elsewhere, one of who is a manager. They said there is no such rule that they know of and will find out exactly what it is today. So I'm going to wait to see what they are able to find. I did include a cover letter to CIC explaining everything but it wasn't enough it seems. I have some saved emails from work which I'm thinking I could use as additional proof.

Jes_ON - I never thought of asking for a contract between the agency and the bank. It is a stretch and they will likely say they can't give that but I'm still going to try and see. Going with what you said, in the letter I've prepared I've made it clear its not a letter of employment or recommendation or sponsorship of any kind. I can give Immigration the manager's number and extension but if I want it to go well I have to inform her that I am doing so and she is likely to say she can't talk. (Will think more on how to go about that)

GinnyPi - I agree i should NOT send that version of the letter. I was too upset yesterday. The letter you sent was so normal I realized after reading it. lol. I followed that and wrote a draft that I'll paste below. I gave a +1 rating too! Thanks for taking the time to write a letter like that. It was so helpful.

Yahoo7 - Supporting letters from who did you mean Yahoo7? I'm trying from the bank manager , I already have the one from the agency.

OhCanadiana - You have good point about confirming the letter from the agency. I'll ammend the draft and post it a bit later to see what you guys think.

My plan after discussing with many is -

To write an email only to the manager so that she doesn't get mad before she even starts to read my email on Friday morning before 8 am. Give her till 4:30 on Friday to reply, if she doesn't then I fwd that email to her manager telling him I hadn't heard from my manager and would like to know if he could help me as I am on a time constraint, then give him until Monday evening to reply and keep going that way until I get some response. I'm likely to get either no response right away or vague responses that won't be here nor there but I have counter measures for that since I get the sense there is no such 'rule' to not confirm job duties! Ridiculous. I think its just her.

I was also told by the other manager(friend) the higher I go the more petty the situation looks and someone is bound to solve it before it even goes high up coz it reflects badly on them. Also the case of media and diversity issue is something they do NOT want and apparently diversity has been an issue for them (oh jeez I wonder why).

Anyway I'm going to finalize the letter now. Thanks everyone for your time, its made such a difference.

 

[CEC2013]

I agree with Ginny on the softer approach at first...so you can see where you end up.

From my personal experience, I know that my employer too was very reluctant at first, thinking it was an endorsement. I scheduled a meeting with a manager and explained that this is not a character reference, nor an endorsement, but rather employment verification. Perhaps using that terminology/wording would play out better. After explaning in detail all that I would need from my employer, I provided them with the checklist portion that speaks to the letter requested by CIC and just told them, so that they can feel comfortable (this being published by the Feds and all), to just follow the guidelines/format.

After all of the conversations and documents provided, they finally agreed to issue me a letter. But not before they were comfortable with the idea that this is my application and does not in any way involve them, aside from providing the letter.

You still have time, so be positive and keep on trying...take advantage of the opportunity. Good luck mate!

 

[aliennotanymore]

Hello,

I'm in the same position as you. I also worked for a temp agency in Alberta as an admin assistant. I'm gathering my documentation to apply asap under CEC. It's unbelievable that the ref letter from the temp agency is not good enough for the VO. Technically and legally speaking, the temp agency is YOUR EMPLOYER, not BMO where you were doing an assignment. They should be more flexible on this, not requesting you more documentation to prove your duties and responsibilities at the bank.

Anyway, I will request a reference letter to the company where I was working at just in case. In fact, I have to do that as my ref letter from the temp agency is way too generic about those freaking duties. I know how frustrated can be to be dealing with somebody that doesn't want to be helpful at all.

Wish you all the best.

 

[ssparkles]

Hello,

I'm in the same position as you. I also worked for a temp agency in Alberta as an admin assistant. I'm gathering my documentation to apply asap under CEC. It's unbelievable that the ref letter from the temp agency is not good enough for the VO. Technically and legally speaking, the temp agency is YOUR EMPLOYER, not BMO where you were doing an assignment. They should be more flexible on this, not requesting you more documentation to prove your duties and responsibilities at the bank.

Anyway, I will request a reference letter to the company where I was working at just in case. In fact, I have to do that as my ref letter from the temp agency is way too generic about those freaking duties. I know how frustrated can be to be dealing with somebody that doesn't want to be helpful at all.

Wish you all the best.

Its good you saw this post on time. I know its unbelievable but no matter how you do it, try and get a letter from where you 'physically work' ! Its better you get it right first time rather then being asked forthings during the process which will delay you. I know the agency is my employer and paid me, but who is going to argue with immigration n that?! I'm sure they know it too but it is what it is. Get as much details as you can before you apply. good Luck!

 

[ssparkles]

CEC 2013, GinnyPi and many others on this thread, I've taken a little something from all your posts and have put together this letter for my employer. Does it sound reasonable? Thanks for the comments in advance!

Dear Manager,

As discussed early last year, I am in the process of applying for permanent residency in Canada. As part of my application category I am required to provide a letter confirming the duration, the roles and responsibilities of my job at BMO. Unfortunately despite your best efforts, you were not able to assist me with such a letter due to bank policy.

As a result, Jon Doe at the employment agency provided me with a letter stating employment duration, details and duties which I submitted with my application. Yesterday the immigrations officer contacted me to advise that they require evidence from BMO to support my application since this is who I performed my duties for and the letter I submitted from the agency is not satisfactory as I did not physically work there.

I would like to appeal for your assistance in this matter. To be clear this is not a letter of employment, it is not an endorsement for employment, not any form of sponsorship or character reference. This is simply Employment verification from BMO that I did work at BMO from June 2010 to May 2012 through the agency.

As a reminder, here is the list of items that are normally required by immigration to be included in the verification letter. This can also be viewed in the Canadian Immigration website http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/forms/IMM5610E.pdf

(copy paste that section of the form with bullet points on reference letter requirements)

I can provide you with the details required.

Name : Ssparkles
Period of Employment: June 28, 2010 – May 4, 2012
Position: xyz
Main responsibilities and duties
• x
• x
• x

Total annual salary plus benefits
x
x

Number of Hours worked per week – 37.5 hrs per week. Monday – Friday.

I am on a very tight deadline to submit these requirements and look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible. (should i write via email so that she doesn't call me and i have proof? I'm planing not to take any phone calls anyway as I won't have proof)

Thank you

Regards

Ssparkles




There was this option too:
I would like to appeal for your assistance in this matter. Could you please confirm that the content of the letter from the agency that is attached is correct by signing your name and contact information. (But Immigration asked proof from BMO so I think I should leave this option out for now and use it as a last resource should it need to be used. Any views on this?)

I will give her a day to respond, if nothing i'll forward that email to her manager, give him a day and then forward it to his manager and so on. I hope something positive comes out of this. I'm so nervous

 

[jes_ON]

Hi ssparkles,

I would say generally, the content of the letter is fine, but here's the problem - you are still using the word "employment" - as in , "Dates of employment." You were not employed by BMO, and they will never say you were. You have to understand that "employment" implies a legal relationship between you and your employer, which you did not have with BMO (you had that relationship with your agency).

You have to replace words like employment and job with "assignment," "contract," - So instead of "Dates of employment" it would be "Dates under contract" or "term of assignment with BMO". You want them to say, "Mr Ssparkles worked under assignment from TEMPAGENCY at BMO_LOCATION. The duration of his assigment at BMO was from BEGIN DATE TO END DATE...." "Under the terms of the contract with TEMPAGENCY, Mr Ssparkles worked as a JOBTITLE and performed the following duties and responsibilities..." Do you see what I mean?

unless BMO paid you directly, annual salary and benefits should be in your letter from your employer, not the client (BMO) - The letter from BMO can simply state, "Mr. Ssparkle's employer, TEMPAGENCY, was responsible for salary and benefits." If you enjoyed any of the same perks or benefits of employees, it would be nice for the letter to state that, but not mandatory.

 

[ssparkles]

Jes_On you are right. I should remove thhe word 'employment' completely and replace with contract/assignment.

I have also been asking some acquaintances with authority at the bank but different location and he disagreed completely. This is his suggestion:

Manager,

As discussed early last year, I am in the process of applying for permanent residency in Canada. As part of my application category I am required to provide a letter confirming the duration, roles, and responsibilities of my job at BMO. Unfortunately despite your best efforts, you told me you were unable to assist me and I was left to provide this from the agency. Yesterday an immigrations officer contacted me to advise that they require evidence from BMO to support my application since this is who I performed my duties for and the letter I submitted from the agency is not satisfactory as I did not physically work there.

I hereby request and give you permission to provide the following information in regards to my work history with BMO. (I know this is kinda strong but this guy is a manager too :|)

Contract Assignment dates
position
primary responsibilities

Please feel free to add the remark, "Without prejudice" or BMO's recommended verbiage, "We will provide a reference, but we will not be held legally accountable for this reference."

Please see BMO's page: xyz which outlines what you are able to provide.

Not providing this letter in the first place has resulted in a significant delay in my application which has personal and financial implications for myself.

Your prompt response is appreciated as I am required to respond to Immigrations Canada ASAP

thanks,

sparklesssss

I have to say it does sound much more powerful. Its also shorter and demands something rather than have a pleading tone. *confused* Now I have 2 letters ......

 

[CEC2013]

1. Unfortunately despite your best efforts, you were not able to assist me with such a letter due to bank policy.

2. Yesterday the immigrations officer contacted me to advise that they require evidence from BMO to support my application since this is who I performed my duties for and the letter I submitted from the agency is not satisfactory as I did not physically work there.

3. I am on a very tight deadline to submit these requirements and look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible. (should i write via email so that she doesn't call me and i have proof? I'm planing not to take any phone calls anyway as I won't have proof)

1. I dont know if you should be including the specific reason. It sounds like you are putting words into their mouth. Perhaps best left alone, so that they provide you with a reason. Would seem more plausible, if I was reading with my CIC hat on.

2. Wording issues: BMO to support my application. This is contradictory to a following paragraph where you speak about it not being an endorsement. Also, maybe using the Citizenship and Immigration Canada instead of immigrations officer, as that way you identify the federal agency. More official and sometime more initimidating.

3. I would say something along the lines of...CIC providing you 1 week or 7 days to follow up with this information. This allows you a buffer or a few days wherein you can devise some backup options. Dont use wording that limits responses to email, as it will be obvious. Say something like...I look forward to your response. Should you have any question or concerns, I am available via this email address (bla bla).

Hope that helps a little!

 

[ssparkles]

I hear what you're saying CEC2013. I'm going to have to work on this more, I plan to send it by tomorrow morning. I will post again with an update. Thanks so much!

 

[Pippin]

Must say I vote for the letter coming from the position of authority. I believe short and to the point is more likely to get the results you require. I really wish CIC knew how difficult it can be to get their flipping reference letters. It is so unfair that someone's ability to apply for citizenship relies on whether or not they had a boss who was willing to state the facts of their position in a letter. It is no wonder so many would be migrants face hardship when their bosses know that they have the power to determine this person's fate. You've got some wonderful people helping you on this problem and I am sure there are lots of others reading your thread and learning from it. Good luck!

 

[shibinp]

Well said Pippin. thumb-up

I really wish CIC knew how difficult it can be to get their flipping reference letters. It is so unfair that someone's ability to apply for citizenship relies on whether or not they had a boss who was willing to state the facts of their position in a letter. It is no wonder so many would be migrants face hardship when their bosses know that they have the power to determine this person's fate.

 

[jes_ON]

I think the new letter is much, much better, and agree with CEC2013's suggestions. You're getting there!

Remember to document all efforts to communicate with the bank, e.g. print out all sent and received emails. You might even want to send a hardcopy of the letter by registered mail, so that you can prove your efforts to CIC if you need to.

 

[GinnyPi]

I haven't said anything today because you've already gotten so much great advice.

I'm so confused because I like both versions of the letter that you posted today. I do agree with jes_ON's advice about removing the word "employment" and point #2 from CEC2013. My only word of caution is don't say that CIC provided with you with only one week. I don't think lying will win you any favours.

I am really hoping that everything works out for you. I must say that I never realised how complicated this whole CEC thing is. It is one thing to be eligible and fit the description of a member of the Canadian Experience Class, however it takes skill and a touch of luck to be able to prove it. I wish I knew who was advising all these big banks to be so restrictive because it just makes no sense!