WEIRD behavior from Passport Canada agent, is this normal?

[kmoser]

A lot of people don't value their privacy enough, I think that's a mistake in today's digital age.

I think it's mostly a boomer thing, I ran into several change-resistant, anti-innovation boomers caught up in old paradigms at my former workplaces. I think they refuse to accept that the world they grew up in and used to know even 10 years ago doesn't exist anymore. We may have to give it another generation or two before change can happen.

 

[armoured]

Well those goalposts moved fast!

You're the one who introduced the idea that identity theft is somehow an issue wrt to the guarantor; and like I said, no, in the context, I do not think it's an invasion of privacy to ask for that information. It's perfectly clear it's being requested by the government, not by you.

And repeating the same point: if you don't know anyone well enough that would trust you enough to share that information for a specified purpose (required by the government, not you), then there are bigger problems at hand.

 

[Dreamlad]

When I was in the States, buying auto insurance is very easy but when I came to Canada, RBC insurance asked me about my roommates' policy number. I said "absolutely not". It's other people's privacy. I switched to another auto insurance that doesn't require this info later. Really don't want other people's personal info (liability)...

 

[trumprefugee]

What's difficult about the info required from guarantor? Identification and contact info, passport number. All things the government will certainly have anyway.

And date of birth. Some of us would rather not share our date of birth with others, especially in these days of age discrimination. Additionally, many people do not realize how date of birth is a personally identifying information that can help identity thieves. And combined with SIN, becomes even more dangerous. I try hard to avoid sharing my date of birth.

 

[armoured]

And date of birth. Some of us would rather not share our date of birth with others, especially in these days of age discrimination.

You should definitely not apply for a passport or a driver's license, then. You know they put your date of birth right there, unencrypted? Anyone who looks at it will know.

 

[prash42]

Ok, this thread has officially gone rogue, but what the heck . I give my DOB on a need-to-know basis, for example to the government... DMV, Passport Canada, CRA, bank, etc. It's precisely because they need it for these OFFICIAL purposes, that I have no desire to share my DOB with others. Certain others will see my physical drivers license momentarily, like a rental car company.

Not saying I'd never be a guarantor, but it would need to be for a good friend who I trust, not an acquaintance. When we needed a guarantor for our Canadian passports, we thought carefully about who to ask, even though we've come to know plenty of lovely people in our few years in Canada. I mentioned to my guarantor what information we'd need, and asked it in a way that she would feel comfortable saying no, if she had any reservations.

For those of you that are comfortable sharing your DOB and other personal info freely... go on right ahead, it's your call.

You should definitely not apply for a passport or a driver's license, then. You know they put your date of birth right there, unencrypted? Anyone who looks at it will know.

 

[gordinho]

The information provided by the guarantor is easily obtained if someone wants to and more importantly hardly enough to steal anyone's identity.

 

[trumprefugee]

You should definitely not apply for a passport or a driver's license, then. You know they put your date of birth right there, unencrypted? Anyone who looks at it will know.

The government already knows all of our sensitive information, so we are not giving them any information they do not already know. The government is normally legally prohibited from age discrimination, at least in regards to citizens, and has a legal duty to protect our personal information. And if you can prove that the government discriminated against you because of your age, or if the government leaked your sensitive information, you have legal recourse.

Everyday acquaintances and peer colleagues, however, have no restrictions against age discrimination or any legal duty to protect your personal information. You also have no obligation to show your ID to these people. You can safeguard your ID and only show it to people who need to see it, which generally just include the government, financial institutions, healthcare providers, the HR department of your employer (which, unlike peer colleagues, is subject to the legal duty not to discriminate based on age and to safeguard everyone's private data), educational institutions.

So I don't see how getting ID is relevant to the fact that date of birth is sensitive information that you should not need to reveal to acquaintances.

 

[prash42]

There's some truth to that... my dad in India wanted to share birthdays of everybody in our family with his investment advisor, who he thinks is "such a friendly guy, he just wants to wish everyone on their birthday" He isn't change resistant, but does tend to be rather trusting.

I wouldn't generalize though... plenty of cautious boomers, and OTOH plenty of millennials and Gen Z doom scrolling on Facebook or Instagram all day, with absolute no clue about their digital footprint.

I think it's mostly a boomer thing, I ran into several change-resistant, anti-innovation boomers caught up in old paradigms at my former workplaces. I think they refuse to accept that the world they grew up in and used to know even 10 years ago doesn't exist anymore. We may have to give it another generation or two before change can happen.

 

[Dreamlad]

The government already knows all of our sensitive information, so we are not giving them any information they do not already know. The government is normally legally prohibited from age discrimination, at least in regards to citizens, and has a legal duty to protect our personal information. And if you can prove that the government discriminated against you because of your age, or if the government leaked your sensitive information, you have legal recourse.

Everyday acquaintances and peer colleagues, however, have no restrictions against age discrimination or any legal duty to protect your personal information. You also have no obligation to show your ID to these people. You can safeguard your ID and only show it to people who need to see it, which generally just include the government, financial institutions, healthcare providers, the HR department of your employer (which, unlike peer colleagues, is subject to the legal duty not to discriminate based on age and to safeguard everyone's private data), educational institutions.

So I don't see how getting ID is relevant to the fact that date of birth is sensitive information that you should not need to reveal to acquaintances.

Does IRS have the right to tax you when you're working in Canada? I remember they can't double tax you, right?

 

[trumprefugee]

Does IRS have the right to tax you when you're working in Canada? I remember they can't double tax you, right?

The IRS has the right to tax all US citizens no matter where they live or work. There are foreign tax credits one can take on income taxed by both countries so that the income is not double taxed. The US also has tax treaties with certain countries including Canada to avoid double taxation on certain types of income. However, you can't avoid double taxation when the different tax laws in the countries result in timing differences, i.e., if something is taxed in one country one year and the other country in another year. US citizens living outside the US also are subject to rather onerous foreign filings and disclosures (FBAR and FATCA)

 

[tfox72]

If you don't know anyone who trusts you enough to not steal their identity, then I think you have more serious issues than a passport application.

It's not about trusting the person. Identity can be stolen by 3rd parties that are not the government. For example, if guarantor is sending all this info by mail or electronically, it can be intercepted. If the applicant doesn't have a printer at home and will go to a printing shop to print the application form with all this info - they can steal it. Finally, government employees themselves can make a mistake and not shred or safely store the application form once its all done. There are many possibilities beyond just trusting the applicant.

 

[Dreamlad]

It's not about trusting the person. Identity can be stolen by 3rd parties that are not the government. For example, if guarantor is sending all this info by mail or electronically, it can be intercepted. If the applicant doesn't have a printer at home and will go to a printing shop to print the application form with all this info - they can steal it. Finally, government employees themselves can make a mistake and not shred or safely store the application form once its all done. There are many possibilities beyond just trusting the applicant.

Fido's database isn't secure and somebody ordered a new iphone using my credentials!

 

[tfox72]

Fido's database isn't secure and somebody ordered a new iphone using my credentials!

Yep, that is the least of all issues possible. Forged Canadian passports are a big thing - because of its visa free power and ESTA free access to US. https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/national/201507/09/01-4884171-chute-radicale-des-saisies-de-faux-passeports-canadiens.php

 

[Grassquit]

Yep, that is the least of all issues possible. Forged Canadian passports are a big thing - because of its visa free power and ESTA free access to US. https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/national/201507/09/01-4884171-chute-radicale-des-saisies-de-faux-passeports-canadiens.php

All of that is of course true. But unless the prospective guarantor also considered it when receiving their own passport through the mail, their driver's license through the mail, credit card statements, putting passport data into ArriveCAN or airline websites, reusing passwords, or any of the other data related actions that incur risk of identity fraud that most of us do on a daily basis, then I'd have to say their refusal to act as a guarantor isn't really about possible identity fraud. The incremental increase in risk from this one action is miniscule.