unfortunate but true

[david1697]

David, I agree with much of your post, and share your views on most points you raise.

As for my comment about immigrants being realistic, what I meant is that they must understand that foreign experience may not be directly applicable here. Let me explain....

Thank you for your reply and clarifications, torontosm.

In regards to what you mentioned above (foreign experience vs Canadian job market demands), how will that said immigrant EVER get the Canadian experience if no one gives him or her a chance, on the account of not having the very experience, which they need in order to have any chance of being hired?

Clearly, working in Canadian McDonalds would hardly help them gain any relevant to financial industry experience, wouldn't you agree?

Moreover, these candidates do not have the network of relationships in Canada required to become productive once hired. As a result, I unfortunately can't even consider the vast majority.

I totally disagree with this statement, unless you are hiring exclusively for financial advisory position (or similar position, which is commission based, involves heavy sales/direct marketing/social interaction/promotion efforts).

I believe great majority of jobs in white collar industry involve people sitting in little cubicles (or offices, in some cases), who have a PC in front of them and number of files to work with. Unless it's a low end customer support job (exclusively answering a phone and assisting customers), one may not even interact or socialize at all, except with direct management and some co-workers. Why would someone have to be a Dale Carnegie to qualify for such position?

But I also believe that most of the people in charge of hiring , the HR's. do not consciously make a decision to discriminate against immigrants due to ulterior motives (such as "Hmm, here comes immigrant. Of course I will not hire him/her!", and resume goes into trash can). Those in charge of hiring may genuinely believe that they are doing what they must, under given circumstances (having a choice of 200 applicants for each entry or mid level vacancy, 150 of whom might be Canadian born citizens, with Canadian higher education, why would hiring manager affirmatively select an immigrant who may objectively have lower qualification?).

At the same time, you have to understand why in the perception of immigrant it may seem as if they are being deliberately discriminated against. While their perception may not be objectively true (after all, no one can precisely read the mind of another, especially at the distance, without even knowing the person in charge. besides, as I noted above, there can be objective reasons to select Canadian born over foreigner when you have such a fierce competition and over supply of a labor, with so many applicants to choose from) ,still, it is understandable why some immigrants may feel that way.

The solution is, of course, as simple as requiring a will and determination on part of government to do what is right: cut off the immigrant intake and put some serious effort to enact policies which can help to revive economy (basically, do the opposite of what is happening now). Once there is a greater demand for labor, all these frustrations and finger pointing will disappear into thin air, and employers will once again give a fair chance and opportunity to all, regardless of who they know or who knows them.
It's the economy, always has been the economy, always will be the economy.

 

[steaky]

I disagree with newtone on several points, though I never voice my opinion on his posts. We all know he can be wrong.

But we all know you can be wrong as well.

What makes you think there is no jobs in Canada? Every day when I read the papers, there are employers looking for people to fill in certain positions - such as chefs, tradesman, warehouse staff, and other office staff. Maybe it's just you who don't know where to search for jobs. And what makes you think that nobody get his/her job through networking in Canada???? A friend of mine got his job this way.

Canada is a wonderful country, I fell in love with it, I fell in love with people there, I think it has great culture and could be one of the best places on earth to live if you can be gainfully employed. But how can you enjoy any of those great benefits of living in a country like Canada if you are unable to get a job you studied and worked hard to qualify for?

Why do you think people must be gainfully employed in order to enjoy any of those great benefits of living in a country like Canada? For instance, Canada doesn't have a retirement visa, so people who wanted to come to Canada for retirement must look at other ways to immigrate to our great nation. Once they land, they don't have to be gainfully employed in order to enjoy the benefits of living in Canada.

 

[david1697]

But we all know you can be wrong as well.

What makes you think there is no jobs in Canada? Every day when I read the papers, there are employers looking for people to fill in certain positions - such as chefs, tradesman, warehouse staff, and other office staff. Maybe it's just you who don't know where to search for jobs. And what makes you think that nobody get his/her job through networking in Canada???? A friend of mine got his job this way.

Anybody can be wrong. That's why I don't trust even God. I trust only data.

I think for all PRACTICAL PURPOSES there are no entry/mid level jobs for new immigrants in white collar industry IF each vacancy nets 150-200 desperate candidates. I mean think about it: each time you want to apply for some , even as basic as clerical, position there are 200 other individuals who are going nuts to get the exact same job. Then you have all these 'key word' games, schemes to just get past robot, then you have 3 interviews, then you get...... only ONE person actually gets a job.
So, unless you are some super perfect, made in Heaven, Mr or Mrs Perfection, how do you ever beat 200 others who just go crazy to get the same job, no matter how basic its' requirements are?
Therefore, I say, for all practical purposes there are no jobs for new immigrants.
It happens when economy sucks , like it does in Canada now.

And, I have more to substantiate my claim: after months of relentless applying for jobs (mostly via indeed.ca, but also through kijiji, careerbuilder and few other online sites, like Job Bank Canada and etc.), neither myself nor my spouse haven't received ANYTHING other than some canned, robotic replies like "We will let you know if we proceed further" or "We were impressed by your credentials but we were even more impressed by someone else".

What is the use of "there being jobs" if you can't get as much as an interview to be considered for one?
That's rhetorical question.

Why do you think people must be gainfully employed in order to enjoy any of those great benefits of living in a country like Canada? For instance, Canada doesn't have a retirement visa, so people who wanted to come to Canada for retirement must look at other ways to immigrate to our great nation. Once they land, they don't have to be gainfully employed in order to enjoy the benefits of living in Canada.

Because you don't want to die wasting your life, driving taxis and flipping burgers, after having spent 25 years in school and 5 more doing complex, professional assignments in a medical office or in some other field.

Don't be silly, I am not talking about retiring people, I am talking about people who are qualified under FSW, who had to prove that they have degrees and experience in their field of expertise before their PR was approved. Are you saying these people should come to Canada as if they were on a retirement trip?

 

[rhcohen2014]

4% of slave wages...I bet they also pay you for the sick leave you are not entitled to too? How much would that be per chance?

oooooo.... you got me. you're right i dont get paid if i call in sick and if you know anything about being a part time employee, you wouldn't need to such a dumb question trying to prove some stupid point you can't even make. it's not like ANY us employer would give sick pay to part time employees or anything. so what, you're trying to prove i won't get paid if i get sick? big f**king deal. i've worked for myself for long enough to get used to the whole no work = no money concept.

where is it in the states you live and work again? what's your sick leave like?

 

[newtone]

Anybody can be wrong. That's why I don't trust even God. I trust only data.

That includes you. Unfortunately data can be wrong too and for all practical purposes it can also be manipulated. More importantly unlike snowflakes data dosent fall from the sky and you have to trust people to bring you accutate data.

 

[david1697]

That includes you. Unfortunately data can be wrong too and for all practical purposes it can also be manipulated. More importantly unlike snowflakes data dosent fall from the sky and you have to trust people to bring you accutate data.

I never said that it excludes me.

But I know for a fact that I have sent hundreds of resumes applying for Canadian jobs and didn't get a single follow up yet.
The same applies to my wife. Although she didn't send as many resumes as I did, she spent a lot more time carefully crafting each cover letter and resume for a specific position she was searching for and finding online. Still, zero, Nada, zilch, no responses except for canned emails.
Now, I trust this data more than anyone ever can say, claim or state to me.

And I think it's enough for me to conclude that Canadian economy sucks, it's in recession, and they have incredible over saturation of labor force with desperate, unemployed and underemployed job applicants.

Had there been jobs in Canada we would have moved there shortly after our landing.
As it stands, we may never be able to do that.

 

[newtone]

hmmmm I second that opinion :-X very true!

 

[mrbeachman]

I would disagree about recession. It has always been like this.

I am back in Canada visiting family. It is cold, miserable and depressing, but I can see the appeal. Luxury goods are cheap comparing to Asia. Even condos are cheaper than third world cointries. People are generally polite although very distant. No wonder people with money are moving here. Canada is good for people who have money.

 

[aashay12]

how can an canadian green card help anyone in the US.
Can anyone start a company in Canada and work for it as a consultant in US
and have the company pay in Canada, while travelling back and forth.........
I am coming up with so many ideas since, i know that there is a problem
of employment in Canada. Somewhere deep down i feel, i cant change the stystem
but i can work around it....
I rather look for work here and use my skills thru canada.
What say? Eh?

 

[polara69]

The Canadian green card is called Canada Permanent Resident Card. What can it do for you in the US? NOTHING. Why should it?

Can you do both? If you have a green card and Canadian PR, sure. Just time will run out for you on either side because of the residency requirements. So sooner or later you have to decide where to live and work.

 

[david1697]

I would disagree about recession. It has always been like this.

I am back in Canada visiting family. It is cold, miserable and depressing, but I can see the appeal. Luxury goods are cheap comparing to Asia. Even condos are cheaper than third world cointries. People are generally polite although very distant. No wonder people with money are moving here. Canada is good for people who have money.

I don't think so. Before recession you could get white collar jobs easily, just not the high paid one and not one you wanted from get go. But, you could get a "foot in the door" job relatively easily. It was harder to get such jobs n Canada than in US (always was), but nothing like what it is today.
I have asked people and also have read about it, including in public forums like this one.

BTW, if cost of luxury goods is prime target, then US must be even better destination than Canada. For sure, anything, from high end real estate to designer clothes and cars, is a lot cheaper in US than in Canada.

Why do you think Canada is depressing and miserable? Whenever I visited it, I found people to be friendly and happy. Didn't look depressing to me at all.

As to "very distant", I had people start conversations with me in a restaurant in Oakville, Ontario as well as at the bar, in Toronto, ON.
These were regular, local people ,not prostitutes or thieves out to rob me. They just wanted to chat with someone from neighboring country.

I was actually surprised how open and ready for contact people were. I don't believe any degree of greater openness would be sincere and honest.
Perhaps what you notice in a third world country is not true openness or closeness, but you are merely being targeted as a source of potential gain (as foreigner from Europe who is presumed to be wealthy, important and etc.).

The biggest issue with Canada today is its' economy, everything else is just fine.

 

[aashay12]

Polara69

My question about the CPR, can i use it to get contract work in Canada from a US company
Something like offshore but not really offshore.....it's called nearshore...
a lot of companies do that, if I can take advantage of that.....it could benefit.
A lot of work is done online now, if I have to come back to US for any reason, I have a visa to
Come back to US for a meeting or work related issues...
So solving the problem of job in Canada, which can be done from mostly home can be
A game changer for lot of people......
On one side u can keep the pr converted to becoming a citizen , plus u could have
A valid payroll and leaving the headache of finding a job in Canada at least for some time...
Till u establish a network.

 

[AAL1984]

I don't think so. Before recession you could get white collar jobs easily, just not the high paid one and not one you wanted from get go. But, you could get a "foot in the door" job relatively easily. It was harder to get such jobs n Canada than in US (always was), but nothing like what it is today.
I have asked people and also have read about it, including in public forums like this one.

BTW, if cost of luxury goods is prime target, then US must be even better destination than Canada. For sure, anything, from high end real estate to designer clothes and cars, is a lot cheaper in US than in Canada.

Why do you think Canada is depressing and miserable? Whenever I visited it, I found people to be friendly and happy. Didn't look depressing to me at all.

As to "very distant", I had people start conversations with me in a restaurant in Oakville, Ontario as well as at the bar, in Toronto, ON.
These were regular, local people ,not prostitutes or thieves out to rob me. They just wanted to chat with someone from neighboring country.

I was actually surprised how open and ready for contact people were. I don't believe any degree of greater openness would be sincere and honest.
Perhaps what you notice in a third world country is not true openness or closeness, but you are merely being targeted as a source of potential gain (as foreigner from Europe who is presumed to be wealthy, important and etc.).

The biggest issue with Canada today is its' economy, everything else is just fine.

At the end if the day there is one undeniable fact.

Far more percentage of Canadians live in, retire in,travel to, or study in United States vs Americans doing those things in Canada.

Something like well over 1 million Canadians live in US that's about 1/30 Canadians!

Look at cbp lines at Canadian airports and border lines Canadians are desperate for access to the U.S. If US offered any Canadian a greencard half would move there.

I know so many real White Canadians who wish they could go live in US but are intimidated by the complex immigration rules. White Americans or even non White don't care about or pay attention to Canada they view it as a goofy cold country.

 

[next2015]

Polara69

My question about the CPR, can i use it to get contract work in Canada from a US company
Something like offshore but not really offshore.....it's called nearshore...
a lot of companies do that, if I can take advantage of that.....it could benefit.
A lot of work is done online now, if I have to come back to US for any reason, I have a visa to
Come back to US for a meeting or work related issues...
So solving the problem of job in Canada, which can be done from mostly home can be
A game changer for lot of people......
On one side u can keep the pr converted to becoming a citizen , plus u could have
A valid payroll and leaving the headache of finding a job in Canada at least for some time...
Till u establish a network.

I believe the idea makes sense and is very possible. I had the same in mind. However, the chances of achieving it are largely based on one's area of work I believe. For example, for a programmer it is far easier to achieve compared to a finance/accounting person.
Its a very simple route in my opinion; set up a company in Canada, use your US contacts/relationships to get your self contracts, pay your taxes and life goes on. Like I said, I believe one's area of work is critical in determining the success of the model. Also, it'd be easier and wiser if you left the U.S. with at least 2 contracts to begin with.
I am with you on that model.

 

[ADUFE]

oooooo.... you got me. you're right i dont get paid if i call in sick and if you know anything about being a part time employee, you wouldn't need to such a dumb question trying to prove some stupid point you can't even make. it's not like ANY us employer would give sick pay to part time employees or anything. so what, you're trying to prove i won't get paid if i get sick? big f**king deal. i've worked for myself for long enough to get used to the whole no work = no money concept.

where is it in the states you live and work again? what's your sick leave like?

I wonder why you find it so difficult to be civil with people who don't share your point of view.....Anyway, whatever the reason may be you choose the right country to settle in; one in which the ruling class does not welcome or tolerate dissenting opinions. Wrt the US and sick leave; I thought you chose Canada because it is supposed to be better than the US......