Spousal Sponsorship (name change, police/med checks, TRV) - Philippines

[S_and_C]

Hi everyone,

First to give some background... My fiance and I met in December 2014, she lives in the Philippines and I live in Canada. We've been together almost 10 months, but we've only been physically together once when I visited her in March 2015 in the Philippines. We are at the stage where we are planning to get married by mid-October 2015 in the Philippines (note: she has not been able to get a TRV, rejected 2 times, to come visit me in Canada). Afterwards, we are planning to apply for spousal sponsorship so she can immigrate to Canada. It's also worth noting that I have 2 kids (full custody) from my previous marriage, and my fiance has no dependents, so the ideal situation is for her to come to Canada to be with me as soon as we can make it happen. It will benefit us both emotionally if she can come sooner, plus it will allow her to build a bond with my kids sooner. As you can imagine, visiting her has been difficult to coordinate given that I have my kids to consider.

I have a few specific questions that I hope someone could answer, or point me to the right information. I have done some searching, but have not been able to find specific details...

1. Name change or not at marriage? If she takes my last name at the time of marriage, we will have to delay submitting our PRV. A name change would require getting a new passport (which has to wait on the marriage certificate), and then apply for the police/medical/birth certificates with her new name and marital status. This would likely add at least a month or two to our wait time before we could submit the PRV. If we got married and she retained her maiden name, she would not need a new passport, birth cert etc. Is there any downside to keeping her maiden name so we can apply for PRV sooner? The idea would be to submit a legal name change later after she gets to Canada, as she -does- want to take my last name. Or is it better to go through all of these processes so that the PRV has her new name and marital status consistent throughout the application and documents?

2. Police and Medical checks before marriage? Following from question 1, is it advisable to get these documents prior to marriage so we have them ready to go when we submit the PRV a few weeks afterwards? In that case, we would have everything we need except for the marriage certificate from NSO (assuming a few weeks to receive that and then have her mail it to me). Or is it best to get these documents after marriage is complete and registered with NSO? Does her marital status appear on these documents? If so, will it delay the application and/or confuse the CIC officer if those documents show her as single but we are applying for spousal sponsorship?

3. This last question relates to after the PRV has been submitted. I have been told that due to my situation with my kids (being a single parent working full time), and that it is in my and my kids best interest to have my spouse with us, that she may be able to apply for a TRV while the PRV is in process. The idea would be to specify dual intent, that I would want her to visit for 6 months, while the PRV is processing and hope the TRV is approved on compassionate grounds. She would then return to Philippines to settle any affairs before packing up her things and moving here permanently. In that case, we would apply for a TRV after we get the AOR showing our file number, and also indicating my current situation and reasons for wanting her here sooner. Has anyone had experience in this, or know of someone in a similar situation that has made it work?

Thanks in advance for anyone who might be able to comment on these.

Thanks,
S_and_C

 

[MasterBC]

If you are applying PR sponsorship in Phils (Outland) then i suggest after your wedding, expedite the release of your NSO marriage certificate and change all necessary documents pertaining to your application of her PRV. It may take approximately 2months for NSO certificate or maybe less then all other documents lets say another month (passport, NBI etc.). You need the NSO marriage certificate when applying for PRV so change all documents as much as possible.

For your question #3, you can try applying for TRV while you have the PRV on process, but the chances of getting it approve is very low...

 

[S_and_C]

Hi MasterBC,

Thanks for replying. Yes there are a lot of things that seem to point to delaying the PRV until after marriage when everything is updated with her new name and marital status. That way when the PRV forms are filled out, and all the documents are requested and included, everything will be consistent.

My fiancé had done some research and said it may be faster for us to go to the NSO office ourselves after the ceremony to be sure the info is added to their records faster. Better than paying an expedite fee for someone else to submit it, if such a thing is allowed that is. I am not sure if the NSO will accept that or if they need to be submitted through official channels like the civil registry office or from a pastor.

The other thing we need to do is list the things required and determine the dependencies. Like the Marriage Certificate is required for getting a new passport, and may be required when requesting other documents, getting medical check etc... Some documents can be requested online, some need to be done in person, and some can be done in parallel with others. I'm just trying to figure out the optimal way to proceed.

Related to #3, I had previously called the MPs office for Ottawa South a few months back explaining my situation. Essentially that I would want her with me as soon as possible. She summarized it as: go to Philippines to get married, then sponsor your spouse for PRV, but after the PRV is started apply for the TRV indicating "dual intent" and the reasons for wanting her to visit before the PRV is granted. Once AOR is received it is considered "approved in principle" as long as there are no big showstoppers in the application. The idea is that it would afford more leniency in their decision making process, because of my situation and that she intends to settle here permanently anyway. Plus, wouldn't they like having that extra $100 for us to apply for the TRV and subsequent renewals/resubmissions in future? I'm sure that the CIC is a profitable business...

Thanks again for your reply, I hope I get a few other replies on this to get some different perspectives.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Related to #3, I had previously called the MPs office for Ottawa South a few months back explaining my situation. Essentially that I would want her with me as soon as possible. She summarized it as: go to Philippines to get married, then sponsor your spouse for PRV, but after the PRV is started apply for the TRV indicating "dual intent" and the reasons for wanting her to visit before the PRV is granted. Once AOR is received it is considered "approved in principle" as long as there are no big showstoppers in the application. The idea is that it would afford more leniency in their decision making process, because of my situation and that she intends to settle here permanently anyway. Plus, wouldn't they like having that extra $100 for us to apply for the TRV and subsequent renewals/resubmissions in future? I'm sure that the CIC is a profitable business...

The person you spoke to in the MP's office has no idea what they are talking about.

With 2 previous refusals, a Canadian citizen spouse and a PR app in process, her chances of being approved for a TRV are very, very low. She is a very high risk to overstay. The majority of people in this situation are refused and not able to come to Canada until the PR app is approved.

AIP is first stage approval in inland applications; this is completely different from outland apps. AOR is NOT Approval in Principle. AOR stands for Acknowledgement of Receipt and all it means is that they have received your app. First stage approval for outland means that the sponsor has been approved; they haven't even looked at the applicant or the relationship at that point. The majority of refusals come in the second stage once the app has gone to the local VO.

Also, you guys have several red flags in your app. A fairly short online relationship, barely any time spent in person, married on the second visit and your partner is from a less developed country.

 

[S_and_C]

Hi canuck_in_uk,

Thanks for your insight on the TRV after PRV, I will have to investigate this situation more to see if such a thing is possible. If we expect a PRV within a few months (with no showstoppers in the application), is it reasonable to try for a TRV for say 6 months, and within that time she would receive her PRV and simply stay at that point?

I guess I've heard conflicting information from different sources on "red flags" and the FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) that seems to be prevalent on the internet like forums or facebook groups. Because of this, I am wondering if many of the horror stories we hear are the bad experiences of a few that have been sensationalized and amplified. As for our situation, I believe we do have a sufficient amount of relationship evidence...

- our original OKCupid chat logs (about a month's worth, indicates that we met online on Dec 7, 2014)
- Skype call logs with screenshots.
- Pictures of us together and with her family/friends from the March 2015 trip.
- Daily interaction via text on Facebook messenger (which is a LOT so I'll be printing every 10th page for brevity).
- PayPal history of the times I sent money as occasional gifts or to help out.
- then in the next few weeks we will have more photos and video of us together during my next trip, including our wedding (which I plan on putting up on our Youtube channel).

In terms of relationship length, I would think 10 months of being together and then getting married is a reasonable amount of time. Even if the majority of that time is communicating electronically, we are still maintaining a solid ongoing relationship.

I was curious about what the PRV rejection rates were, and I found the following publication on the CIC site that did an audit on the Family Reunification program in 2014... Table 3.14 talks about refusal rates which between 2002 and 2012 have ranged between 13% - 18% which isn't that huge. These also include the criminal/medical inadmissibility cases too, so it should mean that unless you really have weak relationship evidence, it's unlikely we would be refused.

It is not letting me post the link directly, so if you go to the CIC website, add this after the main URL...
/english/resources/evaluation/frp/index.asp

Either way, we are keeping a positive attitude and expect we will have no problems given that our relationship is genuine and we have a lot of supporting evidence.

Thanks again,
S_and_C

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Thanks for your insight on the TRV after PRV, I will have to investigate this situation more to see if such a thing is possible. If we expect a PRV within a few months (with no showstoppers in the application), is it reasonable to try for a TRV for say 6 months, and within that time she would receive her PRV and simply stay at that point?

First stage is 2 months and Manila averages around 10-12 months. Regardless of where you are in the process, the chances of the TRV are low. In order to approve a TRV, CIC must be convinced that the applicant has stronger ties to their home country than they do to Canada, to show that they will not overstay. A Canadian spouse is nearly always considered to be the strongest tie, especially when a PR app is in process. Very few people actually get a TRV in this situation. Another negative on top of that is that she already has 2 TRV refusals. You can definitely apply but don't put your hopes on it.

I guess I've heard conflicting information from different sources on "red flags" and the FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) that seems to be prevalent on the internet like forums or facebook groups.

In terms of relationship length, I would think 10 months of being together and then getting married is a reasonable amount of time. Even if the majority of that time is communicating electronically, we are still maintaining a solid ongoing relationship.

Either way, we are keeping a positive attitude and expect we will have no problems given that our relationship is genuine and we have a lot of supporting evidence.

Red flags don't mean that an app will be refused. There are many, many people that have submitted apps with huge red flags and not had any issues. This is because they knew what their red flags were before applying and fully explained them in the app, alleviating the concerns that the VO would have had.

This is what you need to do. Recognize your red flags and fully address them in your application.

 

[S_and_C]

Hi canuck_in_uk,

Relating to the processing times... My fiance is part of a private Facebook group called "Proud Canadian Wives", which is specifically for Filipinas who are married to (or intend to marry) Canadian husbands. There are 241 members in that group now, and she's seen PRV processing times anywhere from 6 months at shortest to 8-12 months at longest (not sure if that includes the 2 month Sponsor Approval step). The average of 10-12 months you mentioned sounds accurate and means that roughly 50% will be shorter than that average if there are no issues with the application. Problem applications are ones which take longer and would skew the average higher.

In terms of the "red flags"... Yes, I plan to write a cover letter to include with our relationship proof. It will give an overview of our timeline, my situation in Canada as a single dad with 2 young kids who works full time, and the difficulty that creates in being able to visit each other (mainly arranging care for my kids, which is usually getting my Mom to fly here for a few weeks). Adding the fact that she has not been able to obtain a TRV thus far to visit me, there is an immigration barrier preventing us from spending time together here in Canada. I would hope this is sufficient to address the small amount of time spent in physical proximity, along with all our other proof.

We will likely try for the TRV down the road after the PRV has started processing and we have a file number. The thing is, if we are one of the lucky ones and it gets processed in 6 months, it might be reasonable to get a 6 month TRV that overlaps that time period, so that she receives the PRV before the TRV expires.

Thanks again for your insight.
S_and_C

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Relating to the processing times... My fiance is part of a private Facebook group called "Proud Canadian Wives", which is specifically for Filipinas who are married to (or intend to marry) Canadian husbands. There are 241 members in that group now, and she's seen PRV processing times anywhere from 6 months at shortest to 8-12 months at longest (not sure if that includes the 2 month Sponsor Approval step). The average of 10-12 months you mentioned sounds accurate and means that roughly 50% will be shorter than that average if there are no issues with the application. Problem applications are ones which take longer and would skew the average higher.

Manila's posted processing time is 16 months. This means 80% of apps are done within that time, while 20% take longer than 16 months. The 50% processing time, the actual average, is around 10-12 months. That doesn't include the 2 month sponsor stage.

 

[S_and_C]

Manila's posted processing time is 16 months. This means 80% of apps are done within that time, while 20% take longer than 16 months. The 50% processing time, the actual average, is around 10-12 months. That doesn't include the 2 month sponsor stage.

Thanks canuck, this gives us a good idea. I know that before we can even apply for PRV there will be a bit of lag time for gathering the remaining documents. I know we have a long road ahead of us, but the good thing is we're part of the way there already.