Sponsorship Withdrawal before Landing

[tuyen]

Thank you PMM...!! I don't know others but I am fully satisfied.

To be on the safe side his lawyer advises the husband make a detailed agreement between him and his wife. If seperation/divorce happens he will not responsible for any payments, such as paying alimony, spousal support, her wellfare amd other financial charges against him. If she applies for welfare than he'll garnish his money from her any time of his life. And if she refuses to sign this agreement this will give the husband a clue about their future in Canada and he may withdraw his sponsorship before she lands.

His lawyer doesn't sound like much of a lawyer. First of all, such an "agreement" wouldn't be worth the paper it was printed on. He can't enter into a contract with her which would override a PRIOR contract he already has in place with CIC. When he agreed to sponsor her, he agreed to become responsible for her for a period of 3 years, including the repayment of all funds she would receive from social assistance, should she ever receive such funds. Therefore, he's already IN a contract with CIC, and no matter what "agreement" he makes with his wife, it will not cancel his legal obligations under his first contract. And he sure as hell wouldn't be able to garnish anything from her because he never acted in a capacity of a financial lender to her.

The only thing such an "agreement" would do is potentially scare her (assuming she's completely ignorant of the legal system), and by scaring her, it might make her reconsider her marriage and her PR visa.

 

[scylla]

His lawyer doesn't sound like much of a lawyer. First of all, such an "agreement" wouldn't be worth the paper it was printed on. He can't enter into a contract with her which would override a PRIOR contract he already has in place with CIC. When he agreed to sponsor her, he agreed to become responsible for her for a period of 3 years, including the repayment of all funds she would receive from social assistance, should she ever receive such funds. Therefore, he's already IN a contract with CIC, and no matter what "agreement" he makes with his wife, it will not cancel his legal obligations under his first contract.

100% agree. He will still be responsible for paying back any social assistance she draws within the first three years.

 

[Halfmoon]

If you change your mind about sponsoring your spouse, common-law partner, conjugal partner or dependent children, you must inform CPC-M at CPCM-EXTCOM @ cic.gc.ca of your decision to withdraw your undertaking before the visa office issues permanent resident visas. You must clearly state your name, date of birth and Universal Client Identification (UCI) /Client ID number, if know, in all correspondences.

Once permanent resident visas are issued, the promise you and your co-signer, if applicable, made to support your family is valid for the term of your undertaking.

The sponsor can effectively withdraw sponsorship until the visa is issued. After that, the sponsor cannot withdraw sponsorship or otherwise have the visa invalidated by choice;a report of fraud or criminal inadmissibility could provoke CIC to action and or perhaps invalidate the visa. Furthermore, if an applicant arrives in Canada under a spousal sponsorship, I couldn't see why a CIC officer would refuse entry unless there are discoveries that would support either parties of ineligibility (sponsor)/inadmissibility (applicant) as a cause under the act. Unless the relationship dissolved in a divorce from the when the visa was issued to time of landing (which is totally impossible), what other causes could effectively incite CIC to invalidate the PR visa? If landed with visa in hand, the undertaking which both parties agreed and signed take effect regardless of a relationship breakdown. My recommendation to your friend as a quick solve if he is so passionate about intercepting the process, rather than pay his lawyer thousands of dollars, my suggestion comes free, that he quickly get himself on social assistance. ;D

 

[PMM]

Hi

If you change your mind about sponsoring your spouse, common-law partner, conjugal partner or dependent children, you must inform CPC-M at CPCM-EXTCOM @ cic.gc.ca of your decision to withdraw your undertaking before the visa office issues permanent resident visas. You must clearly state your name, date of birth and Universal Client Identification (UCI) /Client ID number, if know, in all correspondences.

Once permanent resident visas are issued, the promise you and your co-signer, if applicable, made to support your family is valid for the term of your undertaking.

The sponsor can effectively withdraw sponsorship until the visa is issued. After that, the sponsor cannot withdraw sponsorship or otherwise have the visa invalidated by choice;a report of fraud or criminal inadmissibility could provoke CIC to action and or perhaps invalidate the visa. Furthermore, if an applicant arrives in Canada under a spousal sponsorship, I couldn't see why a CIC officer would refuse entry unless there are discoveries that would support either parties of ineligibility (sponsor)/inadmissibility (applicant) as a cause under the act. Unless the relationship dissolved in a divorce from the when the visa was issued to time of landing (which is totally impossible), what other causes could effectively incite CIC to invalidate the PR visa? If landed with visa in hand, the undertaking which both parties agreed and signed take effect regardless of a relationship breakdown. My recommendation to your friend as a quick solve if he is so passionate about intercepting the process, rather than pay his lawyer thousands of dollars, my suggestion comes free, that he quickly get himself on social assistance. ;D

As I pointed out and CIC notes, the Guidelines are not the law. The Federal court has determined when an application ends, and that is at "landing".

 

[Halfmoon]

Hi


As I pointed out and CIC notes, the Guidelines are not the law. The Federal court has determined when an application ends, and that is at "landing".

I don't disagree with you PMM about guideline not being the law, however I thought his question was whether the sponsor himself can withdraw the application once a visa has been issued. Also, nowhere in the Act does it touch on this. My understanding based off of CIC procedure is that the sponsor "technically" cannot withdraw and if anything is withdrawn between the time of visa issuance to landing would solely be based on the power and authority of POE officer and not the sponsor.

How about this person simply try it and see what happens....

 

[Halfmoon]

Another question that comes to mind would be in cases of inland processing. If an inland applicant receives their visa in hand, wouldn't the undertaking take effect then unless he/she can prove there was misrepresentation. A relationship breakdown or simply not wanting the applicant to remain in Canada at that point would be meaningless. Just an opinion, I think this is why the guidelines are very specific with timing of "sponsorship withdrawal" since what would happen in the IP cases? Just a thought.......

 

[tuyen]

My understanding based off of CIC procedure is that the sponsor "technically" cannot withdraw and if anything is withdrawn between the time of visa issuance to landing would solely be based on the power and authority of POE officer and not the sponsor.

Exactly right.

How about this person simply try it and see what happens....

That's precisely what he should do. The process is very simple - all he has to do is send an e-mail. Then someone at CIC will read the e-mail, they'll open up his file, realize that it's past the "point of no return", and they will send him a reply saying "Sorry, Charlie, it's too late for that now". And then he can come back to this thread and let us know what happened, at which point we'll finally be able to settle it.

 

[rjessome]

Hi


As I pointed out and CIC notes, the Guidelines are not the law. The Federal court has determined when an application ends, and that is at "landing".

The Regs say in section 126:

Withdrawal of sponsorship application – A decision shall not be made on an application for permanent residence by a foreign national as a member of the spouse or common-law partner in Canada class if the sponsor withdraws their sponsorship application in respect of that foreign national.

There is nothing about withdrawal after the decision has been made so doesn’t the above imply withdrawal is possible only to the point where the decision is made and then you are committed? So it doesn’t seem CIC is wrong, legally. However, common sense would say that if the sponsor is saying “they used me just to get to Canada” before the applicant even lands, at the very minimum, they should not land the applicant and issue a Section 44 report for inadmissibility.

 

[Halfmoon]

Agreed - and in this case the sponsor is not claiming misrepresentation but rather a "shaky" relationship as per the post therefore a section 44 wouldn't need apply. I consider CIC and guideline to be all encompassing to the rules and regulations.

 

[canadianwoman]

Here's the case:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/03/18/toronto-pakistan-arranged-marriage-pearson.html

The Pakistani woman was sponsored by her husband, she was issued a PR visa, her husband sent a letter withdrawing his sponsorship, she came to Canada anyway (still with what looked like a valid PR visa in her passport) and was not allowed to land.

Irrelevant to her if her PR visa was not valid because her husband withdrew sponsorship after the visa was issued, or the PR visa was not valid because CIC decided to withdraw it because they found out a marriage breakdown had occurred based on the letter of withdrawal from the husband.

 

[tuyen]

Here's the case:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/03/18/toronto-pakistan-arranged-marriage-pearson.html

The Pakistani woman was sponsored by her husband, she was issued a PR visa, her husband sent a letter withdrawing his sponsorship, she came to Canada anyway (still with what looked like a valid PR visa in her passport) and was not allowed to land.

Irrelevant to her if her PR visa was not valid because her husband withdrew sponsorship after the visa was issued, or the PR visa was not valid because CIC decided to withdraw it because they found out a marriage breakdown had occurred based on the letter of withdrawal from the husband.

That was an interesting story. But there are some key details that we don't know, and those key details most likely were behind the reason why CIC cancelled her sponsorship. We don't know what story the husband told CIC. For all we know, the cancellation of her PR was based on a lie. Another possibility is that CIC saw the case as fraud (marriage of convenience), because I'm quite certain that when they filed their paperwork, they never said "we didn't consummate the marriage". So imagine when the husband calls CIC and says all these things about how they've been married for two years and STILL haven't had physical contact with each other, it wouldn't take too long for someone at CIC to think, "yeah...we can safely cancel this one because the whole thing stinks of fraud".

 

[PMM]

Hi

That was an interesting story. But there are some key details that we don't know, and those key details most likely were behind the reason why CIC cancelled her sponsorship. We don't know what story the husband told CIC. For all we know, the cancellation of her PR was based on a lie. Another possibility is that CIC saw the case as fraud (marriage of convenience), because I'm quite certain that when they filed their paperwork, they never said "we didn't consummate the marriage". So imagine when the husband calls CIC and says all these things about how they've been married for two years and STILL haven't had physical contact with each other, it wouldn't take too long for someone at CIC to think, "yeah...we can safely cancel this one because the whole thing stinks of fraud".

But doesn't that blow your previous statements out of the water? Sponsorship submitted, visa issued, sponsorship withdrawn after visa issued, person refused "landing" Meets the Federal court definition of application, which means it is not complete until person landed.

 

[tuyen]

But doesn't that blow your previous statements out of the water?

No, because my point was that CIC has the ability to stop an application at any time - even after the PR visa has been issued - but there's a cutoff point for the sponsor.

In this case, yes, the sponsor may have initiated contact with CIC to say "I want to withdraw my application", but we don't know what happened after that. All we can do is speculate.

My guess is they pulled up his file, and saw that he's past the PR issuance stage, so they may very well have told him "sorry...can't help you". So upon realizing that he's now "stuck with her", he panics and starts telling them about how it wasn't a real marriage because it was never consummated even after two years of marriage, at which point CIC takes over and handles the rest by cancelling the application.

 

[PMM]

Hi

No, because my point was that CIC has the ability to stop an application at any time - even after the PR visa has been issued - but there's a cutoff point for the sponsor.

In this case, yes, the sponsor may have initiated contact with CIC to say "I want to withdraw my application", but we don't know what happened after that. All we can do is speculate.

My guess is they pulled up his file, and saw that he's past the PR issuance stage, so they may very well have told him "sorry...can't help you". So upon realizing that he's now "stuck with her", he panics and starts telling them about how it wasn't a real marriage because it was never consummated even after two years of marriage, at which point CIC takes over and handles the rest by cancelling the application.

I give up, I disagree with you and have point out the Federal Court of Appeal rulings, which are pretty concrete examples, all you quote is what is on the CIC web site, which states it is not a "legal document"

 

[tuyen]

which are pretty concrete examples, all you quote is what is on the CIC web site, which states it is not a "legal document"

Okay...it's not a legal document. So what? It doesn't change the fact that those are the rules and standards by which applications at CIC are processed. The only time there's any deviation from those rules is if there's some ambiguity in their wording, thereby resulting in a court challenge, OR if the wording in the Sponsorship Guide is in conflict with the Regulations.

I'll say it one last time and then I'm done repeating myself: yes, CIC has the ability to cancel an application AT ANY TIME prior to landing, but the SPONSOR does not.

I give up, I disagree with you and have point out the Federal Court of Appeal rulings

And if you read my reply, you'll know why it's not relevant to THIS case, because the case you cited with the FCA was argued over the wording of "at the time of that application", AND it was a totally different set of circumstances where the woman in question was deemed inadmissible to Canada.

Canceling the sponsorship application for the case that the OP talked about is going to be either successful or unsuccessful based on the phrase, "before the visa office issues permanent resident visas". CIC says that a sponsor CANNOT cancel after that point. But you're claiming that "issuing permanent resident visas" doesn't happen until landing. And the only regulations (Sections 119 and 126 for outland and inland, respectively) which deal with withdrawing an application don't mention anything about WHEN the cutoff point is. So if the Sponsorship Guide is NOT in conflict with the law, common sense suggests that CIC will make its decision based on what they clearly stated in the Sponsorship Guide.

Also, I just came across a very interesting bit of information in the Sponsorship Guide, under the heading, "What will the person I want to sponsor have to do?" which states:

"Note: The person you want to sponsor should not quit their job or sell their assets until they have received their permanent resident visa."

They even put it into a highlighted box so that it catches your eye, and it's very relevant to what we're discussing here because it clearly shows that issuing a PR visa is NOT THE SAME as landing. Obviously they don't expect you to wait until AFTER you land in Canada to start selling your things and quitting your job, right? They want you to do those things BEFORE you land, while you're still in your home country, but only AFTER they ISSUED the PR visa.

That brings us right back to:

"If you change your mind about sponsoring your spouse ... you must inform CPC-M of your decision to withdraw your undertaking before the visa office issues permanent resident visas.

Before the visa office ISSUES permanent resident visas. Not "before your spouse lands".