Sponsorship default - Bankruptcy - Sponsorship Life Time Ban

[peace1865]

A friend of mine needs help .... I would appreciate if any of you could guide her

"I am Canadian Citizen sponsored my husband in March 2002 and he landed in Canada on August 2002 on spousal PR. The financial undertaking period in March 2002 was 10 years. We separated in 2003 May ( just 9 months after living together ) . I left the country in Oct 2003 and has never been in touch with my ex husband. I remarried in 2006 after following a proper divorce procedure in my country as the marriage happened in my home country in Feb 2002. Now I have been married for 11 years with 3 kids and planning to settle back to Canada and sponsor my spouse. My kids are already Canadian citizen as I was a Canadian Citizen although they were born outside Canada

I came back to Canada recently in 2017 to sponsor my current husband and came to know that my ex claimed welfare / disability insurance for most part of the financial undertaking period ( 9 years) which may amount to 70K to 100K+ and making me in Sponsorship Default & in-eligible as a sponsor as I read. I also read that I can file bankruptcy to make sponsorship default debt go away and start fresh after successful discharge.

My question is that If after sponsorship default I file bankruptcy , will after successful discharge I will be able to sponsor my spouse as I read somewhere that in such a case I will have a LIFE LONG BAN on sponsorship if I file bankruptcy to clear the debt of sponsorship default.
Please advise and I will be grateful."

 

[scylla]

Time to talk to a very good immigration lawyer.

Your friend definitely cannot sponsor while in default of a financial undertaking. It seems logical that a bankruptcy could discharge this requirement. However filing for bankruptcy is something not be undertaken lightly and your friend will want to make sure she understands all of the consequences of doing so (i.e. impact to any assets/bank accounts owned with her spouse, credit rating, etc.).

I don't know what policies CIC has regarding sponsoring a spouse after claiming bankruptcy due to a default in a financial undertaking.

 

[scylla]

Based on a few legal sites, it does look like if you go the bankruptcy route, you don't have to pay back the money - but you still can't sponsor your new spouse. So I think what you've written is correct. The money has to be repaid in order for you to sponsor your spouse. If you fail to repay, you can never sponsor (this logic makes sense based on the agreement you signed).

 

[peace1865]

Time to talk to a very good immigration lawyer.

Your friend definitely cannot sponsor while in default of a financial undertaking. It seems logical that a bankruptcy could discharge this requirement. However filing for bankruptcy is something not be undertaken lightly and your friend will want to make sure she understands all of the consequences of doing so (i.e. impact to any assets/bank accounts owned with her spouse, credit rating, etc.).

I don't know what policies CIC has regarding sponsoring a spouse after claiming bankruptcy due to a default in a financial undertaking.

Thanks Scylla,

Based on a few legal sites, it does look like if you go the bankruptcy route, you don't have to pay back the money - but you still can't sponsor your new spouse. So I think what you've written is correct. The money has to be repaid in order for you to sponsor your spouse. If you fail to repay, you can never sponsor (this logic makes sense based on the agreement you signed).

Thanks Scylla, for your information.. could you guide me on those specific legal websites that clearly specify that as it seems contradictory to human and compassionate grounds as children who are Canadian citizen by birth living outside Canada can not come to Canada as well as family unit likes to stay together. Also I checked the following site which describes the immigration law

http://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/Eng/BoaCom/references/legjur/Pages/SpoPar.aspx

It does say not say anything about life time ban on sponsor after declaring bankruptcy for clearing sponsorship default .
Yet at the same time it is not clearly written in black and white that after successful discharge you can not sponsor spouse ..

There is vagueness here .. . Thanks for all your help ..but the question still stands " CAN A SOPUSE BE SPONSORED AFTER DECLARING BANKRUPTCY AND GETTING SUCCESSFUL DISCHARGE WHICH COVERS SPONSRSHIP DEFULT PAYMENTS which in some cases are amounting to 100 of thousands of dollars.. ????

 

[scylla]

Legal site is here: http://atwork.settlement.org/downloads/atwork/D9_Understanding_Sponsorship_Breakdown.pdf

Again, you need to speak with an excellent immigration lawyer. This is a very complicated situation. None of us here are lawyers - we are normal people like you. You should not be relying on this forum to answer your question. You need a lawyer.

 

[carolbb23]

Thanks Scylla,


Thanks Scylla, for your information.. could you guide me on those specific legal websites that clearly specify that as it seems contradictory to human and compassionate grounds as children who are Canadian citizen by birth living outside Canada can not come to Canada as well as family unit likes to stay together. Also I checked the following site which describes the immigration law

http://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/Eng/BoaCom/references/legjur/Pages/SpoPar.aspx

It does say not say anything about life time ban on sponsor after declaring bankruptcy for clearing sponsorship default .
Yet at the same time it is not clearly written in black and white that after successful discharge you can not sponsor spouse ..

There is vagueness here .. . Thanks for all your help ..but the question still stands " CAN A SOPUSE BE SPONSORED AFTER DECLARING BANKRUPTCY AND GETTING SUCCESSFUL DISCHARGE WHICH COVERS SPONSRSHIP DEFULT PAYMENTS which in some cases are amounting to 100 of thousands of dollars.. ????

but you see with h&c approval rates are low

 

[peace1865]

Legal site is here: http://atwork.settlement.org/downloads/atwork/D9_Understanding_Sponsorship_Breakdown.pdf

Again, you need to speak with an excellent immigration lawyer. This is a very complicated situation. None of us here are lawyers - we are normal people like you. You should not be relying on this forum to answer your question. You need a lawyer.

Thanks Scylla for all your help . It is very much appreciated.. Yes, I already saw the link above and that is where it is written about life long ban even after fully discharged bankruptcy ..I have called these people OCASI and they could not answer what they have written in that presentation; infact they do not have any staff at all ..They maintain a forum settlement.org and the lady asked me to post it on the forum... so yes are right .. I have to consult a lawyer.. but before that I wanted to my research and ask friends and community as I am sure my friend is not the only one in this situation but I am unable to find relevant material on any forum and internet to clearly answer the question about life long ban even after bankruptcy which includes sponsorship default amount as well.

I will search more look for more advice from friends and internet community and for sure will seek help and share what I will learn in the process.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Thanks Scylla,


Thanks Scylla, for your information.. could you guide me on those specific legal websites that clearly specify that as it seems contradictory to human and compassionate grounds as children who are Canadian citizen by birth living outside Canada can not come to Canada as well as family unit likes to stay together. Also I checked the following site which describes the immigration law

http://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/Eng/BoaCom/references/legjur/Pages/SpoPar.aspx

It does say not say anything about life time ban on sponsor after declaring bankruptcy for clearing sponsorship default .
Yet at the same time it is not clearly written in black and white that after successful discharge you can not sponsor spouse ..

There is vagueness here .. . Thanks for all your help ..but the question still stands " CAN A SOPUSE BE SPONSORED AFTER DECLARING BANKRUPTCY AND GETTING SUCCESSFUL DISCHARGE WHICH COVERS SPONSRSHIP DEFULT PAYMENTS which in some cases are amounting to 100 of thousands of dollars.. ????

It's not contradictory. Your friend signed a contract with the government to support her spouse and then broke that contract. Making the taxpayers of Canada pay $100 000 for her mistake is pretty outrageous.

 

[peace1865]

It's not contradictory. Your friend signed a contract with the government to support her spouse and then broke that contract. Making the taxpayers of Canada pay $100 000 for her mistake is pretty outrageous.

It is quite possible that it was marriage fraud to gain entry in to Canada ,,, I am sure that you must have heard of it .. in this case relationship lasted for 8-9 months and in some cases applicant simply fled as they landed in Canada .. and that is precisely Canada later implemented tougher rule like 5 year ban if marriage breaks .. so please do not pass judgement unless you know the details ...

All I asked is answer to a legal question faced by thousands of hardworking immigrants who contribute towards the economy of this great nation and have unique problems as well...

 

[canuck_in_uk]

It is quite possible that it was marriage fraud to gain entry in to Canada ,,, I am sure that you must have heard of it .. in this case relationship lasted for 8-9 months and in some cases applicant simply fled as they landed in Canada .. and that is precisely Canada later implemented tougher rule like 5 year ban if marriage breaks .. so please do not pass judgement unless you know the details ...

All I asked is answer to a legal question faced by thousands of hardworking immigrants who contribute towards the economy of this great nation and have unique problems as well...

Marriage fraud doesn't negate her contract with the government. She knew she was required to support him for 10 years and it was her responsibility to live up to that. Again, the taxpayers of Canada should not have to pay $100 000 for her mistake.

I seriously doubt that thousands of people are unable to sponsor their spouse because they defaulted $100 000 on a previous sponsorship undertaking.

 

[peace1865]

Marriage fraud doesn't negate her contract with the government. She knew she was required to support him for 10 years and it was her responsibility to live up to that. Again, the taxpayers of Canada should not have to pay $100 000 for her mistake.

I seriously doubt that thousands of people are unable to sponsor their spouse because they defaulted $100 000 on a previous sponsorship undertaking.

Thanks for your reply. It is appreciated.
However the Question is still unanswered and I am trying to find out what the law says about it .

By the way you will be surprised how many cases like this exists and Govt has changed laws many times since 2002 to contain such frauds and precisely changed the Spousal Undertaking duration from 10 years to 3 years after June 2002 for Spousal Sponsorships... along with other regulations... which is a step in a right direction ...

It is also surprising that in a lot of cases how easy it was to get welfare from OW or ODSP and people kept getting it as in many cases no body bothered to check if the applicant deserved it or not and reconfirm after few months if situation has changed ....easy cash money I guess as regulations were not stringent and case workers did not bother to check and authenticate..... and sponsors were not informed as per procedural requirements ..

I fully agree that TAX PAYER MONEY should be given after thorough investigations and applicant should be checked after every few months if he/she is trying to get off the welfare ...UNFORTUNATELY I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE ABUSE WELFARE AND SOME KEEP GETTING IT FOR MORE THAN 10 YEARS as nobody came and ask them about why are they are still on it ...

 

[scylla]

Thanks for your reply. It is appreciated.
However the Question is still unanswered and I am trying to find out what the law says about it .

Once again, you need to seek the advice of a very good immigration lawyer. This questions is too complicated to get advice from a free forum.

 

[peace1865]

Once again, you need to seek the advice of a very good immigration lawyer. This questions is too complicated to get advice from a free forum.

Thanks Scylla, I will consult with lawyers.
Thank you for your response.

 

[Rob_TO]

Agreed, talk to a lawyer.

The rules state: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/ip/ip02-eng.pdf
5.29. Factors specific to bar on sponsorship default
Sponsors are eligible to sponsor again only if social assistance authorities state that sponsors have resumed their obligations and have repaid the debt to the satisfaction of the government concerned

Provincial social assistance authorities provide information to CIC on sponsored members of the family class receiving social assistance. These reports help identify sponsors who have defaulted on undertakings. Social assistance programs as described in R2 will be designated in Memoranda of Understanding with the provinces and territories.

The "to the satisfaction" part makes it sound like there may be some leeway to make a deal with the provincial government that provided the assistance, if they will accept some lower amount than what was actually paid. However I'm just guessing here. Perhaps can talk to an MPP as well to plead your case since it sounds like lots of the discretion here will come from Provincial government level and not IRCC.

 

[peace1865]

Agreed, talk to a lawyer.

The rules state: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/ip/ip02-eng.pdf
5.29. Factors specific to bar on sponsorship default
Sponsors are eligible to sponsor again only if social assistance authorities state that sponsors have resumed their obligations and have repaid the debt to the satisfaction of the government concerned

Provincial social assistance authorities provide information to CIC on sponsored members of the family class receiving social assistance. These reports help identify sponsors who have defaulted on undertakings. Social assistance programs as described in R2 will be designated in Memoranda of Understanding with the provinces and territories.

The "to the satisfaction" part makes it sound like there may be some leeway to make a deal with the provincial government that provided the assistance, if they will accept some lower amount than what was actually paid. However I'm just guessing here. Perhaps can talk to an MPP as well to plead your case since it sounds like lots of the discretion here will come from Provincial government level and not IRCC.

Thanks a lot Rob_TO for taking time out to reply to the post.
It clearly states that Social Assistance amount taken by family class member (in the duration of undertaking) has to be returned before the Sponsor can sponsor again. The bankruptcy which includes the sponsorship default loan can make the loan go away but will it also make sponsor eligible to be a valid sponsor in the eyes of VO and what does law or CIC policy clearly say about it.???..

It APPEARS like that Sponsor can not sponsor another family class member until the sponsorship default loan is paid even if the bankruptcy includes default loan as well.. but I am in the process of consulting lawyers to ask their opinion about it..

As far as authority of the provincial governments to write off or reduce the loan .. there is Supreme Court ruling that Provincial Govt Ministers CAN NOT write off or reduce the default amount; however they have authority to defer or make an attractive payment plan considering the circumstances of the sponsor .Again, the loan has to be fully paid and there has to a letter from provincial govt stating that loan is fully paid till than the sponsor is not an eligible sponsor.

Marvi Vs Canada
https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onca/doc/2009/2009onca794/2009onca794.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQBBZnV0dXJlIHNwb25zb3JzaGlwIGRlZmF1bHQgYmFua3J1cHRjeSBzcG9uc29yIHVuZGVydGFraW5nIHdlbGZhcmUAAAAAAQ&resultIndex=2

One again thanks for your response ..