Sign petition: Citizenship Act Bill C-24 discrimination

[zardoz]

Re: Citizenship Act Bill C-24 discrimination of former foreign workers and students

You are clearly outdated, check again:
http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/canada-parliament-do-not-allow-discrimination-of-former-foreign-workers-and-students-by-new-canadian-citizenship-bill-c-24

YES, 801!!

 

[sashali78]

Re: Citizenship Act Bill C-24 discrimination of former foreign workers and students

YES, 801!!

803. Is that your main objection to the cause?

 

[sinpguy]

Hi Sashali.. I signed ur petition.. Hope u will get enough supporters.. I send it 2 few other friends who are facing the same problem..

 

[Newbie2014]

Re: Citizenship Act Bill C-24 discrimination of former foreign workers and students

I have to assume that this was not a joke post, as there was no smiley. Was it?

It was a joke post. I was just having a little fun. ;D

 

[sashali78]

Re: Citizenship Act Bill C-24 discrimination of former foreign workers and students

"Discrimination" is a strong word. I guess you chose it for that reason -- it is very dramatic and carries alot of emotion. I don't think it is appropriate in the circumstances. Is the legislation unfair? Maybe. Discriminatory? Not when you consider that the term "discrimination" is commonly associated with prejudicial treatment on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

Citizenship is not guaranteed by the Charter of Rights. The government can change whatever it wants with regards to the citizenship qualification process. What use is a legislature that cannot change legislations? The government has now decided that it has been handing out citizenships too easily. Foreign students who came here to study were flying back home with their degree certificate, as well as a citizenship certificate (for not too much more effort, what with the pre-PR time reducing their time to citizenship). Well, the government's not feeling generous any more.

Mind you, the government did not put you at a disadvantage (i.e., discrimination). They merely eliminated an advantage that you previously enjoyed. It's a subtle difference.
Advantage 1: As foreign students, you automatically enjoyed the ability to become PRs (which you likely would not have qualified for had you applied directly while abroad, due to your lack of experience).
Advantage 2: Your time as a foreign student was counted towards your citizenship time quota.
They removed the latter benefit, but you still get to enjoy the former. Thus there is hardly grounds for you to claim "discrimination".

I think the following sentence in your post completely describes your stance and understanding of the issue "Foreign students who came here to study were flying back home with their degree certificate, as well as a citizenship certificate". This shows that you really know little about the process. To obtain citizenship under the current rules would take at least 9-12 years:
1. 3-4 years to finish their studies
2. 1 year of work experience in Canada following the degree and then application for PR under Canadian Experience Class which takes another year
3. 2 years of PR residency following grant of PR
4. Citizenship application and processing times (1-3 years?)
So overall we are talking about 9-12 years. And now it is going to be extended to 11-14 years. You call it "Fly away"? I sincerely hope that you will have your personal achievements in a shorter time in that.
Your stance and mantra is clear, it is similar to general Tory's position where they prefer to shoot 100 bystanders in order to catch one small thief. However, I am really happy that my petition and this subject is causing enough stir for people like you specifically joining this forum to express their opinions. It just adds to the cause which clearly shows in over 800 signatures we received over the last 36h.
http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/canada-parliament-do-not-allow-discrimination-of-former-foreign-workers-and-students-by-new-canadian-citizenship-bill-c-24

And BTW, I am not a foreign student and was not studying in Canada.

 

[zardoz]

Re: Citizenship Act Bill C-24 discrimination of former foreign workers and students

It was a joke post. I was just having a little fun. ;D

I was hoping that you would say that.. ;D

 

[Newbie2014]

Re: New Citizenship Act Bill C-24 discrimination against former foreign workers

The former foreign workers are the best and most contributing stream on immigration to Canada.

Yes, based on the above belief, you are probably not a student.

 

[keesio]

I am suprprised ,why people are not taking up the "intent to reside" clause seriously .It appears to be the most hurting clause ,just like taking back your freedom ,as compared to other Canadians.Its not that I am going to leave Canada after getting citizenship but government must remember that we are immigrants ,we have got our families living outside Canada (and ironically which are not allowed to come to Canada in majority of situations).

It will be just like having a second class citizenship as compared to fellow Canadians .Kindly please do highlight this issue as well in your petitions and writings to your MPs.

Thanks

It's because the impact is minimal or almost nil. As myself, Leon and other have already mentioned, it is similar to the PNP intent to reside in the province that they qualify for. Once approved, some people come to the province, stay for bit to look good, and then leave to the province they really wanted to go to (usually Ontario). All those people who exploited the PNP system that way, they do not feel like second class PRs even though they didn't follow through on their intent they signed off on. If you ask them about it, they won't even care. They have a PR and that's it.

Now the pre-PR thing... that is probably the biggest issue I have with the bill. THAT is important.

 

[salzafar]

Great Effort Guys! I hope this gets highlighted and we all follow through on this.

My Timeline is as below

2005- 2009: International student (4 years)
2009-2013: PGWP- Working in Telecom (3 years)
May 2013- Became PR under CEC

 

[Newbie2014]

Re: Citizenship Act Bill C-24 discrimination of former foreign workers and students

I think the following sentence in your post completely describes your stance and understanding of the issue "Foreign students who came here to study were flying back home with their degree certificate, as well as a citizenship certificate". This shows that you really little know that in order for foreign student to obtain citizenship under current rules would take at least 9-12 years:
1. 3-4 years to finish their studies
2. 1 year of work experience in Canada following the degree and then application for PR under Canadian Experience Class which takes another year
3. 2 years of PR residency following grant of PR
4. Citizenship application and processing times (1-3 years?)
So overall we are talking about 9-12 years. And now it is going to be extended to 11-14 years. You call it "Fly away"? I sincerely hope that you will have your personal achievements in a shorter time in that.
Your stance and mantra is clear, it is similar to general Tory's position where they prefer to shoot 100 bystanders in order to catch one small thief.

You mis-understand me -- I do not have any bias against your position. I just found your use of the term "discrimination" to be inappropriate. My use of the term "fly away" was overly dramatic in an attempt to make a point.

At any rate, with regards to the timelines that you quoted above to demonstrate the hardship of students .... During the 3 to 4 years that they took to complete their studies, the students were foreigners. I studied in the U.S.; I remained a foreigner throughout that time. I have friends who studied in the U.K.; they remained foreigners throughout that time. The reality is:
- Obtaining Canadian PR status after just one year of work experience is an advantage that students enjoyed courtesy of the Canadian government.
- Applying for citizenship after just two years of PR residency is an advantage that students enjoyed courtesy of the Canadian government.
(Processing times are the same for all, so we will not delve into that.)

Now that the government has eliminated that advantage, it feels to you as if the government's action is punitive. It is not. Compared to other immigrants, they enjoyed an advantage. To point this out does not invalidate your concerns. I am being a devil's advocate in explaining why (I think) your campaign will likely not succeed.

I have focused on students in my explanations above, but feel free to provide other examples of pre-PR times so as to enable us to discuss their issues.

 

[zardoz]

In fact, this Bill, if anything removes discrimination. (positive and negative).

All PRs are now treated equally. Everybody has the same rules applied to them. It doesn't matter what your personal history is or how you became a PR.. The "citizenship clock" starts on the day you "land".

 

[keesio]

In fact, this Bill, if anything removes discrimination. (positive and negative).

All PRs are now treated equally. Everybody has the same rules applied to them. It doesn't matter what your personal history is or how you became a PR.. The "citizenship clock" starts on the day you "land".

Overall, I am not so negative on this bill as others are. However, I DO have beef with them removing the ability to count any time as a pre-PR resident. I speak from experience. Before I became a PR, I spent 7 years in Canada on a work permit. I lived full-time here. I paid a ton of taxes during that time, much more than most PRs and citizens. I am not equal to someone who is a new PR. I have done much more. Living in Canada, and more importantly, contributing to Canada with all the taxes I paid. I would think that that time would count for at least something. I'm glad it was when I applied for citizenship. And I think it is only fair that they continue to do so. Extend the time required to 4 out of 6 years by all means. But count some of the time spent as a resident before becoming PR.

 

[meyakanor]

You mis-understand me -- I do not have any bias against your position. I just found your use of the term "discrimination" to be inappropriate. My use of the term "fly away" was overly dramatic in an attempt to make a point.

At any rate, with regards to the timelines that you quoted above to demonstrate the hardship of students .... During the 3 to 4 years that they took to complete their studies, the students were foreigners. I studied in the U.S.; I remained a foreigner throughout that time. I have friends who studied in the U.K.; they remained foreigners throughout that time. The reality is:
- Obtaining Canadian PR status after just one year of work experience is an advantage that students enjoyed courtesy of the Canadian government.
- Applying for citizenship after just two years of PR residency is an advantage that students enjoyed courtesy of the Canadian government.
(Processing times are the same for all, so we will not delve into that.)

Now that the government has eliminated that advantage, it feels to you as if the government's action is punitive. It is not. Compared to other immigrants, they enjoyed an advantage. To point this out does not invalidate your concerns. I am being a devil's advocate in explaining why (I think) your campaign will likely not succeed.

I have focused on students in my explanations above, but feel free to provide other examples of pre-PR times so as to enable us to discuss their issues.

Being eligible to apply for PR after one year of work experience is not an 'advantage' that only former foreign students enjoy. The CEC stream is open to all foreign workers currently working in Canada, and as long as you're under NOC A or most NOC B, you can apply (subject to the limit of 12,000 applications per year).

And I don't see why we should eliminate this so-called 'advantage'. Former international students, former refugee seekers, former foreign workers, former in-land spousal sponsorship applicants, and former live-in-caregivers all have this advantage, and not one group of former foreigners is favoured over the others when it comes to counting the number of days before they became PR. By construction, only up to two years of pre-PR days can be counted towards fulfilling citizenship residency requirements anyway, so it doesn't matter if you have spent 20 years before. That, in essence, should level the playing field between the different former foreign residence groups.

Unlike what it seems like to some people, even with the current rules, most international students won't naturalize by the end of their study. You can count yourself extremely lucky if you can become PR before graduation.

It is indeed an advantage compared with outland applicants, but it is an advantage, which, in opinion, has been earned by these groups, since during their stay in Canada pre-PR, they have (at least to some extent) been 'Canadianized'.

They have absorbed (to some extent) Canadian values, learned Canadian languages, embraced Canadian culture, and contributed socially and economically (most are not even eligible to enjoy a lot of social and unemployment benefits; I know that even open work permit holders can't get health care from Ontario without a job).

Shouldn't they be the kind of new citizens the government is looking to keep, and wasn't this supposedly the purpose of the newly proposed citizenship act?

 

[Eowyn]

In fact, this Bill, if anything removes discrimination. (positive and negative).

All PRs are now treated equally. Everybody has the same rules applied to them. It doesn't matter what your personal history is or how you became a PR.. The "citizenship clock" starts on the day you "land".

I totally agree with this. Why should Canada count the time people are there as temp workers or students? They are not permanent residents. Next people are going to start moaning that they can't use their time visiting Canada as a tourist towards their citizenship. The line has to be drawn. At least everyone is treated fairly if, as zardoz says, the clock starts on the day you land. A petition is rather pointless. You're lucky Canada even grants citizenship to those who were not born there. Many countries do not offer this as an option at all. Besides, it is assumed that if you are a PR that you are going to make Canada your permanent home. What does it matter if you have to wait a little longer to get citizenship? The problem is, too many people abuse the system just to get a Canadian passport and they have no intention of making Canada their permanent home. You can thank them for the change.

 

[keesio]

Why should Canada count the time people are there as temp workers or students? They are not permanent residents.

But they are residents. And CRA treats them no differently in regards to taxation. During my time as a temporary worker, I contributed more in taxes than the vast majority of permanent residents and citizens (I can easily determine this by looking at my tax bracket). I easily paid more taxes to Canada than what I got in services back. You're telling me that I should get treated the same as someone who came to Canada as a visitor?