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Same Sex Conjugal Partnership

canuck_in_uk

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May 4, 2012
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SAHIL SINGH said:
This is the information on CIC website about conjugal partner eligibility

Conjugal partner category is for foreign national partners of Canadian or permanent resident sponsors who would normally apply as common-law partners but are unable to live together continuously for one year, due to circumstances beyond their control, such as immigration barrier, religious reasons, marital status, or sexual orientation. In most cases, the foreign partner is also not able to marry their sponsor and qualify as a spouse.
  • There is no immigration barrier because your boyfriend can go to India to live with you
  • Religious reasons also don't factor into your case
  • Neither does marital status; this refers to people who are unable to marry because one is already married and cannot divorce (like in the Philippines, where divorce is illegal)
  • Sexual orientation; as taboo as it is, homosexuality is no longer illegal in India
  • Unable to marry; you are able to marry but you don't want to pay the costs to go to a country where same sex marriage is legal


As others have said, conjugal is incredibly hard to qualify for. The main factor against you is that you CAN get married in another country. CIC won't care when you say that you cannot afford to do this; they will expect a couple in a genuine relationship to do everything they could to be together. As Rob_TO said, you are choosing not toYou can try for conjugal but be prepared for a refusal.
 

Rob_TO

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SAHIL SINGH said:
yes there is a barrier i cant get visa for the countries who supports gay marriages as im not having a good job and i'm not financially too strong to get tourist visa for those countries so there was no way we can marry in other country accept Nepal as an Indian i can travel to Nepal without visa.
In this case you would have to show a couple of things:
1. Gay marriage is not allowed in any country in the world that you can travel to visa-free
2. You can't get a visa to travel to countries that allow legal gay marriage
3. Your partner in Canada can't get a visa to India for 12-months to satisfy common-law (i believe typical visitor visa for Canadian to India is only 6 months)

If all this applies, then you would have a chance at conjugal.
 

amikety

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SAHIL SINGH said:
yes there is a barrier i cant get visa for the countries who supports gay marriages as im not having a good job and i'm not financially too strong to get tourist visa for those countries so there was no way we can marry in other country accept Nepal as an Indian i can travel to Nepal without visa.
You'll also need to show your boyfriend couldn't live in India. Not wanting to leave his job is NOT a valid reason.

It would be best to try to get a visa for 1-2 nearby countries where same sex marriage is legal and then include the refusals with your application.

However, if your boyfriend is chosing not to live in India as common-law, then you have 0 chance for Conjugal. Once again, not wanting to leave his job is not a barrier to immigration. It is a personal choice.
 

herewecome

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Correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe income is a barrier to getting a Schengen visa, only money to hand, which your partner could ensure your bank account has sufficient funds for.
 

SAHIL SINGH

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We are going to submit our application this month.

This is the cover latter she (Representative) has done for our application.


High Commission of Canada, New Delhi
7/8 Shantipath, Chanakyapuri
New Delhi 110 021, India

To Whom It May Concern,

RE: Conjugal Partner Sponsorship
Sponsor's Name: ??? ??? (D.O.B: Nov. 11, 19??)
Applicant's Name: ??? ??? (D.O.B: Nov. 30, 19??)

I represent Mr. ??? ??? (hereinafter referred to as the “sponsor”) and Mr. ??? ??? (hereinafter referred to as the “applicant”) in this immigration matter. Enclosed please find the completed forms and necessary documentation in support of this sponsorship application for conjugal partner for permanent residence from outside of Canada (spouse or common-law partner or conjugal partner class).

The forms and documentation for each application have been arranged per the order on the respective document checklist. We have ensured that all the available supporting documents have been included in this package.

The applicant would ordinarily apply as common-law partner but for the fact that they have not been able to live together continuously for one year, because of an immigration impediment. The applicant is not able to marry the sponsor and qualify as a spouse. In all other respects, the couple is similar to a married couple, i.e., they have been in a bona fide conjugal relationship for a period of more than one year.


This sponsorship application is based on the following grounds:

1. They have been in a conjugal relationship for more than one year;
2. They could not marry because of:
(a) an immigration barrier;
(b) same sex marriage is not legally recognized in the applicant's country;
3. They have an impediment to living together;
4. They are physically, emotionally, financially and socially interdependent.



Background Facts

The sponsor and the applicant first met online through a gay dating web site in July 2011. They liked each other very much from day one. They became friends and they started chatting every day; in the beginning they were talking one time in a day then over the next two months one time became two times a day and slowly they started spending more and more time together. They decided to meet each other in person to give a name to their relationship, so the sponsor flied to India for their first meeting in December 2011.

They had a wonderful time together during this visit. On January 4, 2012, they went to see the Taz Mahal in Agra where the sponsor proposed to the applicant. After returning to Amritsar from Delhi they decided to get married in Canada as gay marriages are not legal in India. The applicant started to prepare the visitor visa application to Canada in May 2012. Unfortunately, the applicant's visitor visa got rejected.

They began looking for other ways that they could be together. That's when they found that gay marriages are being performed in Nepal by an organization called the “Blue Diamond Society”. Again they had hope. So they plan to get married in Nepal and then started the application process to be together. However, upon further research they found out that though the wedding would be recognized by the Supreme Court of Nepal; it would not be accepted by the country of Nepal as they still have to bring in their new constitution. Nevertheless, they still wanted to have this wedding ceremony to further show each other our commitment to each other.

On July 8, 2012, the sponsor came to India for his second visit to the applicant. On 4th of August 2012 they took flight to Kathmandu, Nepal together. On the 5th of August 2012 they got married in a temple in Nepal arranged by the Blue Diamond Society. Although their marriage is not legal according to Canadian Immigration law because the Nepal government will not legally recognize the marriage until they bring in their new constitution that has yet to happen, for them it was simply important to have had the experience so that they could publicly reconfirm their lifelong commitment to each other.

After the sponsor returned to Canada on August 20, 2012, they resume their daily routines of phone calls and Skype Cam chats. Before and after the sponsor's second visit, they both had documentations to name each other as the sole beneficiary on their wills, power of attorney, life insurance policy, and employer's employment benefit.

Since August 2012 they haven't seen each other in person until now. They really want to spend time together again, so the sponsor plans to visit the applicant the third time this summer.




Over one year conjugal relationship

Since the sponsor proposed to the applicant in Agra on January 4, 2012, they both have wanted to be together and get married. They have tried to live together but things were out of their hands as the applicant's visitor visa to come to Canada to get married to the sponsor was denied and as the sponsor marrying the applicant in India is not possible as India does not recognize the same sex marriage. Since then, it has been more than one year until today, they have maintained a committed and mutually independent relationship of some performance where they have combined their affairs to the marriage like relationship.

To support their relationship further, we have attached the visa denial letter as well as other documents including Insurance policies, Wills, Powers of Attorney, Bank account document, phone bills, photographs, Text messaging history, Skype chat history and plane tickets and boarding passes for Nepal trip. They have also included the Western Union statements for the money that the sponsor sends to the applicant on a monthly basis as the sponsor has been supporting the applicant financially as the applicant sold 50% of his business to help pay for the sponsor's plane ticket so that they could meet again in India this past summer.




Barrier to prevent getting married

As the gay marriage is not legal in the applicant's country, the sponsor and the applicant's original plan was to get married in Canada. As mentioned above, the applicant's visitor visa application to Canada was rejected, which prevent them marrying in Canada.

They never give up the hope. They thought there was always a way out. Later they found that gay marriages were being performed in Nepal by an organization called the “Blue Diamond Society”. However, upon further research they found out that though the wedding would be recognized by the Supreme Court of Nepal; it would not be accepted by the country of Nepal as they still had to bring in their new constitution. In Canada, a marriage performed in another country would only be recognized by the government of Canada if it was also recognized by the country in which it was performed. Again, they both felt like their world had fallen apart.

However, they still want to hold a wedding ceremony so that they could publicly reconfirm their lifelong commitment to each other. With the help of the "Blue Diamond Society" a wedding ceremony was arranged in a local temple "(Pachali Bhairav Temple)" in the city of Kathmandu and they got married in the late afternoon of August 5, 2012. They have a document to support the wedding ceremony. However, they understand that their marriage is not legal according to Canadian immigration law because the Nepal government will not legally recognize the marriage until they bring in their new constitution that has yet to happen.



Impediment to living together

The sponsor would not be eligible for sponsoring the applicant as a common-law partner, as the two have not been able to live together continuously for one year, because immigration rules prevent them from long stays in one another's countries. The partners will not be able to obtain long-stay visas in order to live together in one another's country and meet the cohabitation requirement for common-law partners. Because the other option – marriage – is not available to this couple, they are permanently separated. This is unfair and discriminatory.

They have already made a significant commitment and intend to be together permanently. The applicant once tried to apply for visitor visa to Canada in order to live with the sponsor and to marry him in Canada, however, his visitor visa was rejected due to his financial status. The applicant's qualifications and occupational skills are not eligible for any of other type of Canadian visas such as study permit, work permit or skilled worker application. Although the sponsor can apply for tourist visa to India for visiting the applicant, it's not feasible for him to apply for long-term visa in India because his sponsorship case is very likely to be rejected because he doesn't meet the requirements of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

Subsection 12(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act states that a foreign national may be selected as a member of the family class on the basis of their relationship as the spouse, common-law partner, child, parent or other prescribed family member of a Canadian citizen or permanent resident.

Section 120 of the regulations states that for the purpose of Part 5 of the regulations,
(a) a permanent resident visa shall not be issued to a foreign national who makes an application as a member of the family class or to their accompanying family members unless a sponsorship undertaking in respect of the foreign national and those family members is in effect, and
(b) a foreign national who makes an application as a member of the family class and their accompanying family members shall not become permanent resident unless a sponsorship undertaking in respect of the foreign national and those family members is in effect and the sponsor who gave that undertaking still meets the requirements of section 133 and, if applicable, section 137. Subsection 133(1)(a) of the regulations states (in part) that a sponsorship application shall only be approved by an officer, if, on the day on which the application was filed and from the day until the day a decision is made with respect to the application, there is evidence that the sponsor is a sponsor as described in section 130.

Subsection 130(1)(b) states that, subject to subsection (2), a sponsor, for the purpose of sponsoring a foreign national who makes an application for a permanent resident visa as a member of the family class must be a Canadian citizen or permanent resident who resides in Canada.

If the sponsor applies for long term stay in India to live with the applicant, it means that he does not reside in Canada throughout the sponsorship application. Accordingly, he does not meet the requirement of subsection 130(1)(b) of the regulations. As a result, he does not meet the requirements of section 120 of the regulations. Therefore, the sponsor is unable to live with the applicant in India for at lease one year.

The sponsor is not able to live with the applicant in India also because of same-sex discrimination in the applicant's county. None of the applicant's family except two of his good friends knows that the sponsor is a gay partner of the applicant. They think the sponsor is just a friend of the applicant. Even when the gay relationships are fact of Indian social life, it is yet to be proposed a single reason why same sex marriage is bad for the country that is not based on religion. The traditional Indian society has always taken a very shabby, narrow and don't tell about it to anyone type of look at ‘sex'. There are many incidents for the harassment of homosexuals. These incidents of harassment of the homosexual community and social discrimination in India remain widespread despite years of campaigning by sexually rights groups in the country. The biggest hurdle faced by the campaign to fight discrimination based on sexual orientation in India is section 377 of the Indian Penal Code, which criminalizes unnatural sex. The law, a remnant of Victorian morality, was made in 1860, when any sexual activity that was not meant for procreation was considered a sin.

Financially it would also be difficult for the sponsor to move to India because he currently has a full time teaching position in Canada. Without the sponsor's income as a teacher they would not be able to financially survive. Also if the sponsor were to quit and move to India he could not easily find employment, as he is not legally able or qualified to work in India. Finally purely on a legal basis, they could not live in India safely as Gay marriage is not legal in India and socially it is unacceptable.



Types of Interdependence

Their conjugal relationship is a “marriage-like” relationship. They have made a commitment similar to the commitment made through marriage. The couple has come to a similar point as that of a married couple – there is significant commitment and mutual interdependence in a monogamous relationship of some permanence.

The two individuals are interdependent – they have combined their affairs both economically and socially. The following list is a set of evidence of interdependency provided by them:

Factor & Details

Financial aspects of the relationship
 The sponsor remits money to the applicant on monthly basis to support the applicant's living in India;
 The sponsor had documents drawn up including a will naming the applicant his sole beneficiary. Both medical and a financial Powers of Attorney again giving the applicant sole authority over the sponsor's finance. On the applicant's side, he also had a new will created making the sponsor his sole beneficiary. Please see attached documentation for further details. The sponsor also made the applicant the sole beneficiary of his life insurance policies that were provided to him as part of his employment with the Toronto District School Board.
 The applicant sold 50% of his newspaper business to support the sponsor's airline tickets to visit him the second time;
 Due to the separation in two different countries, they fail to have joint leasing agreement, joint cars, and joint bank accounts although they have tried in both countries. More details can be found from the attached paper to the Form IMM5490E.


Social aspects of the relationship

 Their relationship has been declared to the sponsor's employer - the Toronto District School Board, insurance company, the sponsor's family, the applicant's two good friends and citizenship and immigration Canada;
 They held a wedding ceremony in Nepal arranged by the Blue Diamond Society. Although their marriage is not legally recognized because the Nepal government still has to bring in their new constitution that has yet to happen, for them it was simply important to have had the experience so that they could publicly reconfirm their lifelong commitment to each other.
 Joint travel to Nepal;
 Share values with respect to how a household should be managed;
 Testimonials by the sponsor's parents, his family members, and the applicant's friends about the nature of the relationship and whether the couple present themselves as others as partners. Statements in the form of statutory declarations are presented.

Physical and emotional aspects of the relationship – the degree of commitment are evidenced by:

 Knowledge of each other's personal circumstances, background and family situation;
 Shared values and interests;
 Expressed intention that the relationship will be long term;
 Combined their affairs – they are beneficiaries of one another's insurance plans and wills;
 Joint decision-making with consequences for one partner affecting the other;
 Support for each other when ill and on special occasions letters, cards, gifts, time off work to care for other;
 Their wills made out in each other's favour in which they show the intention that the relationship is long term and permanent;
 Regular and continuous communication when apart.

I trust that the foregoing satisfactorily addresses your concerns, and that you may process this sponsorship application. Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact the undersigned directly.

Yours truly,

xxxxx xxxxx
 

Rob_TO

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SAHIL SINGH said:
We are going to submit our application this month.

This is the cover latter she (Representative) has done for our application.
The main big red flag I can see, is that other than Canada you didn't even try to get a visa to go to another country that allows legal same-sex marriages. If the VO feels you could have obtained a visa to go somewhere else (there must be some other countries than Indian citizens can get visitor visas for), they won't care about how genuine your relationship is, they will simply tell you to apply for visa elsewhere to get married and then re-apply. However this is up to the VO so no telling what will happen.
 

amikety

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Dec 4, 2011
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9-07-2013
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7-08-2013
LANDED..........
7-08-2013
I would remove your real names from the forum. This is public and anyone can see that.

Also, your lawyer needs some help her grammar. "Flied" is not a word.
 
H

hiabbydear

Guest
In your file you got a problem with big question mark.

You both got a different culture.

He seems christian and you are Singh. And if you are from Punjab than I have a BIG concern about your visa and it doesn't matter what ever documents you are going to submit. You can't hide these realities in your documents.
 

amikety

VIP Member
Dec 4, 2011
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Passport Req..
9-07-2013
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LANDED..........
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hiabbydear said:
In your file you got a problem with big question mark.

You both got a different culture.

He seems christian and you are Singh. And if you are from Punjab than I have a BIG concern about your visa and it doesn't matter what ever documents you are going to submit. You can't hide these realities in your documents.
There is also a significant age differences. Not to say that means anything, but CIC will definitely notice it. They will probably be curious to it.

Unfortunately, I don't see where they made any attempts to travel to a third country where same sex marriage is legal. The VO will have a problem with that.

OP, you need to remove your names and DOB............

Also.... I feel that letter is rather preachy. It may come off as a slap in the face of the VO. I doubt they need to be quoted regulations.
 

SAHIL SINGH

Hero Member
Mar 27, 2013
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Visa Office......
New Delhi
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
26-04-2013
AOR Received.
16-05-2013
Med's Request
September 2016
Med's Done....
19-Feb-2013 Exp 5-Mar-2014
Interview........
19-Mar-2014 Rejected (Appealed June 2014)
Passport Req..
Old (20-06-2013) NEW - Waiting
VISA ISSUED...
Waiting (Hearing date is August 15th 2016) Succesfull
LANDED..........
Waiting
Rob_TO said:
The main big red flag I can see, is that other than Canada you didn't even try to get a visa to go to another country that allows legal same-sex marriages. If the VO feels you could have obtained a visa to go somewhere else (there must be some other countries than Indian citizens can get visitor visas for), they won't care about how genuine your relationship is, they will simply tell you to apply for visa elsewhere to get married and then re-apply. However this is up to the VO so no telling what will happen.

As an Indian i don't need visa to go to Nepal

I think u guys are just into why we didn't try to get visa for the country where gay marriages are legal, I tried to get visa for Canada and we also went to Nepal. And don't forget my financial condition im not able to get visa for any other country who accept gay marriages, Bcoz of my financial condition Canada VO denied my visa application and they are not saying it on CIC website that if u are coming form a country where gay marriage is not valid u must try to get married in other country who supports gay marriages to support ur relationship.
 

SAHIL SINGH

Hero Member
Mar 27, 2013
232
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India
Category........
Visa Office......
New Delhi
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
26-04-2013
AOR Received.
16-05-2013
Med's Request
September 2016
Med's Done....
19-Feb-2013 Exp 5-Mar-2014
Interview........
19-Mar-2014 Rejected (Appealed June 2014)
Passport Req..
Old (20-06-2013) NEW - Waiting
VISA ISSUED...
Waiting (Hearing date is August 15th 2016) Succesfull
LANDED..........
Waiting
hiabbydear said:
In your file you got a problem with big question mark.

You both got a different culture. so what?

He seems christian and you are Singh. And if you are from Punjab than I have a BIG concern about your visa and it doesn't matter what ever documents you are going to submit. You can't hide these realities in your documents.what realities u are talking about is it a sin if im from Punjab?
 
H

hiabbydear

Guest
In immigration they do look for culture difference and if you are from punjab as you know punjab is a big fraud place in India where most frauds happening from all over the world.
 

SAHIL SINGH

Hero Member
Mar 27, 2013
232
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India
Category........
Visa Office......
New Delhi
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
26-04-2013
AOR Received.
16-05-2013
Med's Request
September 2016
Med's Done....
19-Feb-2013 Exp 5-Mar-2014
Interview........
19-Mar-2014 Rejected (Appealed June 2014)
Passport Req..
Old (20-06-2013) NEW - Waiting
VISA ISSUED...
Waiting (Hearing date is August 15th 2016) Succesfull
LANDED..........
Waiting
hiabbydear said:
In immigration they do look for culture difference and if you are from punjab as you know punjab is a big fraud place in India where most frauds happening from all over the world.

So u saying when VO is going to know this applicant is from Punjab they simply gonna say no its a fraud case.
 

zardoz

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The truth is that it is the VO's job to profile applications. That's how they decide which of the many thousands of cases get more extensive checking. It's a fact of life. It's not personal. All they know is based on what they can read in the application submitted, so based on experience, some things will cause them to take a very close look at applications that fit known existing problem profiles.

Nobody here is trying to say anything about the merits of you as individuals, but are attempting to alert you to the fact that some things will trigger an enhanced response within CIC.
 
H

hiabbydear

Guest
SAHIL SINGH said:
So u saying when VO is going to know this applicant is from Punjab they simply gonna say no its a fraud case.
if you are from punjab then I mean.

Most fraud cases comes from punjab and I am not saying that your case is fraud.