Same-sex Common-law in China..thank you

[jwee87]

Hi all, my name is Jude and I am a 26 years old Canadian citizen. Below is my situation (same-sex spouse/common law partner sponsorship) and as you can tell, is a bit complicated. Therefore I would greatly appreciate any input/thoughts/opinions that would help me to make a decision on how to proceed. Thank you for all your help!!!!

First is some information about me: Canadian citizen (family immigrated to Canada 14 years ago), both of my parents are working in Canada. After graduating from university in 2011, I left to work in Beijing China and worked here for about 2 years to gain experience. While working in Beijing, I met my current common law partner. We have been together since October 2011 and have been living together ever since Jan 2012.

Now, after 2 and half years in China, I am ready to move back to Canada to either start my own business or enroll in graduate studies. And I would like to sponsor my same sex common law partner to go to Canada with me and start our family in Canada. I would like to leave China as soon as possible as I realize that my home country Canada is an amazing country and it is where I want to be for the rest of my life, be closer to my parents and also because of pollution/food safety issues in China. My partner and I are not married because same sex marriage is not legal in China and my partner has not visited Canada with me yet.

However here are my issues:

1. Because we have resided in my uncle's spare residence in Beijing, we do not have any rental agreements/pay receipts to prove that we have been living together. I understand that to prove common-law, it is important to prove co-habiting in one residence. We only have sparse letters addressed to each of our names in the same address. Would this be a big issue if we apply as common-laws?

2. Because of the above issue and to make the processing easier (in my opinion), I am now considering to have my partner apply for a tourist visa to go to Canada with me, get married in Canada, and then apply for an outland sponsorship while she stays in Canada with me. Is this feasible? what are your thoughts on my 2 options: 1 is to just apply in Beijing as common-law sponsorship as soon as possible and then apply for a tourist visa for my partner for her to go to Canada while waiting for the application or 2 apply for a tourist visa to Canada, get married in Canada then apply outland in beijing as same sex spouse? Would our application be less troublesome or easier if we were married than if we were just common-laws?

3. Regarding applying for the tourist visa to get married, how should we go about to applying the tourist visa? My dad (he has a stable job with good income in Canada) is going to write a letter of invitation for my partner to go to Canada. But should we reveal in our application that we would like to get married in Canada since we are not able to get married in China, and that we are planning the sponsorship? I am concerned that her tourist visa application might be refused because 1) she does not have any other travel history outside of China 2) she does not have strong ties to her country as she doesn't own any properties in China not have a lot of money in her bank account, but she does have a job. Please provide any tips that would help with the tourist visa such as what we should say in the application and what documents we should provide

4. If she gets her tourist visa and we get married in Canada, is it ok if we apply for an outland sponsorship in Beijing China while she stays with me during the process? Would they be suspicious of us because we are applying for the sponsorship right after getting married (it might look like the marriage was for immigration purposes)?

Anyways, given my current situation, any opinions/thoughts/advices would be greatly values...I am quite overwhelmed by this so please, any help would be great. My goal is really just to go back home as soon as possible to be with my family while not leaving behind my partner. Thank you for your time and help!

Cheers

Jude

 

[frege]

Re: Dear all, please help with situation. Opinions/thoughts greatly valued..thankyou

Hi all, my name is Jude and I am a 26 years old Canadian citizen. Below is my situation (same-sex spouse/common law partner sponsorship) and as you can tell, is a bit complicated. Therefore I would greatly appreciate any input/thoughts/opinions that would help me to make a decision on how to proceed. Thank you for all your help!!!!

First is some information about me: Canadian citizen (family immigrated to Canada 14 years ago), both of my parents are working in Canada. After graduating from university in 2011, I left to work in Beijing China and worked here for about 2 years to gain experience. While working in Beijing, I met my current common law partner. We have been together since October 2011 and have been living together ever since Jan 2012.

Now, after 2 and half years in China, I am ready to move back to Canada to either start my own business or enroll in graduate studies. And I would like to sponsor my same sex common law partner to go to Canada with me and start our family in Canada. I would like to leave China as soon as possible as I realize that my home country Canada is an amazing country and it is where I want to be for the rest of my life, be closer to my parents and also because of pollution/food safety issues in China. My partner and I are not married because same sex marriage is not legal in China and my partner has not visited Canada with me yet.

However here are my issues:

1. Because we have resided in my uncle's spare residence in Beijing, we do not have any rental agreements/pay receipts to prove that we have been living together. I understand that to prove common-law, it is important to prove co-habiting in one residence. We only have sparse letters addressed to each of our names in the same address. Would this be a big issue if we apply as common-laws?

2. Because of the above issue and to make the processing easier (in my opinion), I am now considering to have my partner apply for a tourist visa to go to Canada with me, get married in Canada, and then apply for an outland sponsorship while she stays in Canada with me. Is this feasible? what are your thoughts on my 2 options: 1 is to just apply in Beijing as common-law sponsorship as soon as possible and then apply for a tourist visa for my partner for her to go to Canada while waiting for the application or 2 apply for a tourist visa to Canada, get married in Canada then apply outland in beijing as same sex spouse? Would our application be less troublesome or easier if we were married than if we were just common-laws?

3. Regarding applying for the tourist visa to get married, how should we go about to applying the tourist visa? My dad (he has a stable job with good income in Canada) is going to write a letter of invitation for my partner to go to Canada. But should we reveal in our application that we would like to get married in Canada since we are not able to get married in China, and that we are planning the sponsorship? I am concerned that her tourist visa application might be refused because 1) she does not have any other travel history outside of China 2) she does not have strong ties to her country as she doesn't own any properties in China not have a lot of money in her bank account, but she does have a job. Please provide any tips that would help with the tourist visa such as what we should say in the application and what documents we should provide

4. If she gets her tourist visa and we get married in Canada, is it ok if we apply for an outland sponsorship in Beijing China while she stays with me during the process? Would they be suspicious of us because we are applying for the sponsorship right after getting married (it might look like the marriage was for immigration purposes)?

Anyways, given my current situation, any opinions/thoughts/advices would be greatly values...I am quite overwhelmed by this so please, any help would be great. My goal is really just to go back home as soon as possible to be with my family while not leaving behind my partner. Thank you for your time and help!

Cheers

Jude

Hello Jude.

To attract help from people with experience, I would probably change the topic to "Same-sex common-law couple in China", or something like that.

If you choose to go the common-law route, and you don't have much documentary evidence, the best thing would be affidavits from people who know both of you well, and have direct first-hand knowledge of your living arrangements. It is understandable that in a country like China, it would be difficult to live openly as a same-sex couple with a joint lease, joint bank accounts, etc. Unfortunately, I don't know whether you would face problems with CIC in these circumstances. I think these things are sometimes hit-and-miss, and an individual visa officer has a great deal of influence and control in the process. I think if there's little documentary evidence, it's easy for a visa officer who forms a negative opinion of you (for whatever reason) to justify a refusal.

Obviously, it will be easier if you get married. You don't need to get married in Canada. CIC insists only that the marriage be legal where it is performed. If you're unsuccessful getting a tourist visa for Canada, I would suggest you try researching other countries where same-sex marriage is legal, AND it is permitted for two non-residents to marry. Some of these countries are surely easier for Chinese citizens to visit, and there won't be any concern on the part of the authorities there that you'll be immigrating illegally. I know Buenos Aires, Argentina, allows non-resident same-sex couples to marry.

I would recommend you be forthright about your intention to marry in the Canadian tourist visa application. This may result in a denial, but the visa application will be part of the record in your sponsorship application, and it will reflect badly if it is apparent there was some dishonesty. On the other hand, even if the visa application is denied, it will reflect positively on you that you are attempting to marry.

In theory, Canadian law makes an allowance for "dual intent". This means that the visa officer must issue a visitor visa if, although he knows that the foreign visitor plans to apply for permanent residence, he also believes that the visitor won't work while in Canada, and will leave the country when required (or if the PR application is denied). This is quite different from the U.S., where any intention to become a permanent resident automatically means you can't be considered a visitor. However, in practice, my understanding is that most people on the forum who are from non-visa-exempt countries like China have had difficulty obtaining visas in these circumstances. This is particularly true considering what you've written about the "ties" to China that CIC looks for.

In any event, if you need to apply outland, it takes 6 to 10 months for most couples applying through the Beijing visa office.

There are no restrictions on where you or she live during the outland process. The only requirement is that you intend to live in Canada together once PR is granted.

Your marriage will not be considered as primarily for immigration purposes if you are using it as a way to be *together* in Canada. The suspicion of a marriage of convenience will be less if you can provide evidence of a romantic relationship going back some length of time. In this regard, it's much more important how long you've been in a relationship than how long you've been married.

 

[jwee87]

Re: Dear all, please help with situation. Opinions/thoughts greatly valued..thankyou

Thank you for your generous help! I have changed the topic to attract more people with relevant experience. Thanks again!

Hello Jude.

To attract help from people with experience, I would probably change the topic to "Same-sex common-law couple in China", or something like that.

If you choose to go the common-law route, and you don't have much documentary evidence, the best thing would be affidavits from people who know both of you well, and have direct first-hand knowledge of your living arrangements. It is understandable that in a country like China, it would be difficult to live openly as a same-sex couple with a joint lease, joint bank accounts, etc. Unfortunately, I don't know whether you would face problems with CIC in these circumstances. I think these things are sometimes hit-and-miss, and an individual visa officer has a great deal of influence and control in the process. I think if there's little documentary evidence, it's easy for a visa officer who forms a negative opinion of you (for whatever reason) to justify a refusal.

Obviously, it will be easier if you get married. You don't need to get married in Canada. CIC insists only that the marriage be legal where it is performed. If you're unsuccessful getting a tourist visa for Canada, I would suggest you try researching other countries where same-sex marriage is legal, AND it is permitted for two non-residents to marry. Some of these countries are surely easier for Chinese citizens to visit, and there won't be any concern on the part of the authorities there that you'll be immigrating illegally. I know Buenos Aires, Argentina, allows non-resident same-sex couples to marry.

I would recommend you be forthright about your intention to marry in the Canadian tourist visa application. This may result in a denial, but the visa application will be part of the record in your sponsorship application, and it will reflect badly if it is apparent there was some dishonesty. On the other hand, even if the visa application is denied, it will reflect positively on you that you are attempting to marry.

In theory, Canadian law makes an allowance for "dual intent". This means that the visa officer must issue a visitor visa if, although he knows that the foreign visitor plans to apply for permanent residence, he also believes that the visitor won't work while in Canada, and will leave the country when required (or if the PR application is denied). This is quite different from the U.S., where any intention to become a permanent resident automatically means you can't be considered a visitor. However, in practice, my understanding is that most people on the forum who are from non-visa-exempt countries like China have had difficulty obtaining visas in these circumstances. This is particularly true considering what you've written about the "ties" to China that CIC looks for.

In any event, if you need to apply outland, it takes 6 to 10 months for most couples applying through the Beijing visa office.

There are no restrictions on where you or she live during the outland process. The only requirement is that you intend to live in Canada together once PR is granted.

Your marriage will not be considered as primarily for immigration purposes if you are using it as a way to be *together* in Canada. The suspicion of a marriage of convenience will be less if you can provide evidence of a romantic relationship going back some length of time. In this regard, it's much more important how long you've been in a relationship than how long you've been married.

 

[frege]

Re: Dear all, please help with situation. Opinions/thoughts greatly valued..thankyou

Thank you for your generous help! I have changed the topic to attract more people with relevant experience. Thanks again!

You're welcome.

There's a page I find helpful for ideas about what evidence to include. I can't link to it here, but you can find it by Googling "Spousor Your Spouse for Canadian Permanent Residence" (sic).

 

[jwee87]

Re: Dear all, please help with situation. Opinions/thoughts greatly valued..thankyou

Found it! the article's from the PanCanadian Immigration Law Group right? very helpful thanks!

You're welcome.

There's a page I find helpful for ideas about what evidence to include. I can't link to it here, but you can find it by Googling "Spousor Your Spouse for Canadian Permanent Residence" (sic).

 

[Canuck20]

Hi Jude,

We have been through a similar situation to you although not quite as complicated since my spouse is a US citizen. We used the following consulting firm to get us through the entire process. They are excellent in dealing with same - sex situations and I highly recommend them.

http://immigrationservices.ca/

There is obviously a cost involved and I am not sure of your financial situation but we found it to be worth every penny. I know there have been some people who have used immigration lawyers and not been happy but we found the people at Ferreira - Wells to be very thorough and easy to work with.

I sincerely hope that things work out well for you.

 

[Rob_TO]

Hi there,
My thought is that you would have a good chance if you just apply as common-law as soon as possible. You have been in the relationship for almost 2 years now, and living together well over the 1 year minimum.

Regarding the shared lease, this is not a mandatory requirement. In my case, I sponsored my common-law spouse also and before i even met her i already had a mortgage. It's practically impossible to simply add someone into a mortgage before the renewal date, so when we applied for PR she was not listed anywhere on a shared lease/mortgage document. In your case what would be essential is a letter from your uncle, who is really your landlord. He would have to write up an official document that shows your exact dates of living there together and that would serve as your co-lease. It would also be smart to get this document notarized/certified, to make it more official.

Other proofs you would include to prove common-law status are:
- mail sent to each of you, at the same address
- sharing house duties like paying bills, buying home products etc
- joint bank or credit card accounts. What is often easiest here is if 1 person has a credit card, just get the other added as a secondary user, so both names will appear on the same account
- life insurance. Buy some cheap term spousal life insurance and list each other as beneficiary
- more testimonial letters from friends/family explaining and supporting your relationship
- lots of photos of trips traveling together and meeting each others friends/family

With all of this, I don't think it's necessary to delay everything waiting to get married. Remember in Canada its very different from China in that same-sex and opposite-sex are equal, so your case will be looked at just like any other common-law case. Of course this is just my opinion and as was mentioned above, the final decision is done by the VO processing your file!

 

[frege]

Hi there,
My thought is that you would have a good chance if you just apply as common-law as soon as possible. You have been in the relationship for almost 2 years now, and living together well over the 1 year minimum.

Regarding the shared lease, this is not a mandatory requirement. In my case, I sponsored my common-law spouse also and before i even met her i already had a mortgage. It's practically impossible to simply add someone into a mortgage before the renewal date, so when we applied for PR she was not listed anywhere on a shared lease/mortgage document. In your case what would be essential is a letter from your uncle, who is really your landlord. He would have to write up an official document that shows your exact dates of living there together and that would serve as your co-lease. It would also be smart to get this document notarized/certified, to make it more official.

Other proofs you would include to prove common-law status are:
- mail sent to each of you, at the same address
- sharing house duties like paying bills, buying home products etc
- joint bank or credit card accounts. What is often easiest here is if 1 person has a credit card, just get the other added as a secondary user, so both names will appear on the same account
- life insurance. Buy some cheap term spousal life insurance and list each other as beneficiary
- more testimonial letters from friends/family explaining and supporting your relationship
- lots of photos of trips traveling together and meeting each others friends/family

With all of this, I don't think it's necessary to delay everything waiting to get married. Remember in Canada its very different from China in that same-sex and opposite-sex are equal, so your case will be looked at just like any other common-law case. Of course this is just my opinion and as was mentioned above, the final decision is done by the VO processing your file!

Preferably, the letters should be affidavits - i.e., made under legal oath or affirmation.