Relationship evidence/proofs: how far should we go?

[fandv]

Hi everyone...

I'm a Canadian citizen, and in a few months I will be getting married with an Indonesian citizen, whom I will sponsor for a Canadian permanent residence.

As you all know, along with the sponsorship application, we have to submit proofs of the relationship and marriage, which include things like chat history, emails, phone call logs, photos, boarding passes, and of course marriage certificate.

My questions are:

1. For phone call logs, do we need to show the logs of EVERY single month in which we talked?? When we get married, we will have known each other for 2 years. Do we have to show the phone call logs for the whole 2 years then?

2. Now what about chat logs? According to my rough estimate, if we were to print the whole chat logs (MSN Messenger + Skype), it would be around 5000 to 10,000 pages. That's a ridiculous amount to print.......surely the CIC doesn't expect that much??

What's a good amount to print then? 50 pages? 100?

3. When we chat (using MSN Messenger or Skype), we use the Indonesian language. The chat logs have literally thousands of lines.....do I have to translate them to English??

4. Does each printed photo have to have a date-stamp? Is it in fact mandatory? Unfortunately my camera doesn't have a date-stamp feature, so the photos don't have a visible date stamp on them. I wonder if may be we should just write the date on the back of each printed photo...?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Isometry]

Hi everyone...

I'm a Canadian citizen, and in a few months I will be getting married with an Indonesian citizen, whom I will sponsor for a Canadian permanent residence.

As you all know, along with the sponsorship application, we have to submit proofs of the relationship and marriage, which include things like chat history, emails, phone call logs, photos, boarding passes, and of course marriage certificate.

My questions are:

1. For phone call logs, do we need to show the logs of EVERY single month in which we talked?? When we get married, we will have known each other for 2 years. Do we have to show the phone call logs for the whole 2 years then?[/qoute]

We had about 2 years of phone bills also. What I did was to submit the first page of each month's phone bill, with a note that I'd send the rest if they wanted. That showed continuous communication over the entire time frame, without having to submit a mountain of paper.

2. Now what about chat logs? According to my rough estimate, if we were to print the whole chat logs (MSN Messenger + Skype), it would be around 5000 to 10,000 pages. That's a ridiculous amount to print.......surely the CIC doesn't expect that much??

What's a good amount to print then? 50 pages? 100?

Select excerpts that show the evolution of your relationship, again with a note that it's a sample and you'll send more if they want. For my application, we selected a few conversations from before we started dating, one or two when we'd just barely started dating, and things like us worrying that he wouldn't get his passport in time to visit me the first time we were going to meet in person. It's up to you how many to send. Also, if you can get a log of just the start/end times of each session, send that.

3. When we chat (using MSN Messenger or Skype), we use the Indonesian language. The chat logs have literally thousands of lines.....do I have to translate them to English??

If you're using the logs to show that you talked, then no. If it's important to show them what you talked about, then yes. It's up to you how much you want to translate, but I wouldn't bother translating literally everything.

4. Does each printed photo have to have a date-stamp? Is it in fact mandatory? Unfortunately my camera doesn't have a date-stamp feature, so the photos don't have a visible date stamp on them. I wonder if may be we should just write the date on the back of each printed photo...?

No, they don't have to have a date stamp. Most people type/write the date and a brief description of each photo themselves. Many of us don't know the exact date for many of our photos, and either leave it out when we don't know or put just the month and year.

 

[fandv]

Thanks for the reply .

If you take a look at the following form:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/guides/3906e.pdf

You'll see that page 2 says:

Send originals of the immigration forms (items 1 to 5 below) and police certificates. Send photocopies of all other documents, unless instructed otherwise.

And page 3 says:

Proof of your sponsor’s visits such as airline ticket coupons, boarding passes, copies of pages of your sponsor's passport showing entry/exit stamps.

So am I correct to understand that it is acceptable to send COPIES of my boarding passes? They have sentimental values to me, and I would hate for them to be lost somewhere when being mailed, so I strongly prefer to just scan them and print the JPG file. Would the CIC be okay with that?

 

[Isometry]

Yes, that should be fine. Several other people did the same with boarding passes, including myself.

 

[KJG]

Yes, that should be fine. Several other people did the same with boarding passes, including myself.

all my proof was photocopied....

 

[fandv]

Thanks again for the clarifications everyone .

Some more questions:

1. I'm looking at the following:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/perm-fc.asp

It says that the processing times are:
Step 1: 82 days
Step 2 (we are sending our papers to Mississauga, and I think they will send to Singapore): 21 months (based on a complete application package)

So the total time is up to 82 days plus 21 months? That's almost 24 months, which is 2 years... =(. Does it really take that long just to sponsor a spouse? How long did it take most of you, to get your (or your spouse's) PR?

2. If you take a look at IMM 5491:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/forms/IMM5491E.PDF

The first sentence says, put an X in the box corresponding to the documents you are enclosing. If you do not enclose all the required forms and documents, your entire application will be returned to you.

But the thing is, some of the items don't really apply to me, so how do I indicate if something is not applicable? Because IMM5491 doesn't have any "Not Applicable" fields/boxes that I can checkmark.

3. Box 18, if I just submit a letter of employment from my employer, that's enough right?

4. Hypothetically speaking, if tomorrow I lost my job, can I still send the employment letter from my current employer?

5. Does my employment affect the eligibility to sponsor anyway? (Just to clarify: I'm only going to sponsor my future wife, who is turning 28 soon, and has no children. I am from Ontario, by the way. No co-signer.)

6. If after submitting the application, I get a new job, will I have to inform the CIC?

7. Box 19: if I am submitting an option C printout, I don't have to do anything about box 19? Leave it blank then?

 

[frege]

Thanks again for the clarifications everyone .

Some more questions:

1. I'm looking at the following:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/perm-fc.asp

It says that the processing times are:
Step 1: 82 days
Step 2 (we are sending our papers to Mississauga, and I think they will send to Singapore): 21 months (based on a complete application package)

So the total time is up to 82 days plus 21 months? That's almost 24 months, which is 2 years... =(. Does it really take that long just to sponsor a spouse? How long did it take most of you, to get your (or your spouse's) PR?

The figure of 21 months means it takes them 21 months or less to process the fastest 80% of applications.

You can find more detailed information in this spreadsheet:

http://www.data.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=5175A6F0-1&xsl=datacataloguerecord&metaxsl=datacataloguerecord&formid=427337D0-7C36-4FED-8428-C6A63F8C19B3

It shows that in 2011 Singapore processed:

- 20% of spousal applications within 7 months
- 30% of applications within 10 months
- 50% of applications within 15 months
- 70% of applications within 18 months
- 80% of applications within 21 months

I guess that means that if you have an application that doesn't leave any doubt in their minds, you can be approved much quicker than 21 months.

The Singapore office also had a very low approval rate of 53%. I don't know why that is. The worldwide average is 85%. Maybe they're paranoid. (Even 85% seems paranoid to me.)

 

[fandv]

The Singapore office also had a very low approval rate of 53%. I don't know why that is. The worldwide average is 85%. Maybe they're paranoid. (Even 85% seems paranoid to me.)

Wow, not very encouraging, is it...... =(. Our relationship is genuine, and we do have tons of proofs, and it bothers me that they might not approve the application.... *sigh*. If we want to apply outland, can she only do it through Singapore? Is it possible to do it through another visa office which has a higher approval rate?

By the way, when submitting Skype call logs as evidence (I buy Skype credits), do we have to identify which number belongs to which person?
Here's the problem: my fianceé's cellphone is on a prepaid plan, and it doesn't come with monthly bills. She just goes to shops or kiosks that sell scratchable little cards, and add up her airtime credits that way. So there's no statement that shows that her cellphone number belongs to her.

What should we do then?!

 

[parker24]

Wow, not very encouraging, is it...... =(. Our relationship is genuine, and we do have tons of proofs, and it bothers me that they might not approve the application.... *sigh*. If we want to apply outland, can she only do it through Singapore? Is it possible to do it through another visa office which has a higher approval rate?

By the way, when submitting Skype call logs as evidence (I buy Skype credits), do we have to identify which number belongs to which person?
Here's the problem: my fianceé's cellphone is on a prepaid plan, and it doesn't come with monthly bills. She just goes to shops or kiosks that sell scratchable little cards, and add up her airtime credits that way. So there's no statement that shows that her cellphone number belongs to her.

What should we do then?!

Sadly, you will have to apply through Singapore unless she is a citizen of another country or living in another country. When it came to my phone bills, I blacked out every one of them except the ones that were my husband. You could try that, then they would use common sense as to, oh that's the sponsor/applicant calling. The Skype call logs work in place

 

[fandv]

Sadly, you will have to apply through Singapore unless she is a citizen of another country or living in another country. When it came to my phone bills, I blacked out every one of them except the ones that were my husband. You could try that, then they would use common sense as to, oh that's the sponsor/applicant calling. The Skype call logs work in place

Hmmmm I'm pretty sure I've heard about Indonesian citizens who applied through Buffalo while still residing in Indonesia. Do you think I remember the wrong thing, or is there a small chance that it's possible?

About blacking stuff out: I thought about that too...!! So many lines to black out.......did you do it electronically (i.e: with Photoshop or Paint), or did you black out using a pen?

 

[Fencesitter]

It seems that a lot of people who are applying are not living with their spouse. For those that are, I'd recommend sending the following evidence:

1. Pictures, no need to elaborate...
2. Rental contracts etc.
3. Health insurance plans
4. Joint bank account
5. Some e-mails, but this is probably unnecessary if you are living together
6. Birth certificates of children / passport

I'm of the opinion that if you are living together, and have been for a number of years, the case is stronger.

FS

 

[parker24]

Hmmmm I'm pretty sure I've heard about Indonesian citizens who applied through Buffalo while still residing in Indonesia. Do you think I remember the wrong thing, or is there a small chance that it's possible?

About blacking stuff out: I thought about that too...!! So many lines to black out.......did you do it electronically (i.e: with Photoshop or Paint), or did you black out using a pen?

Maybe it was an American who was living in Indonesia? Or had American citizenship or green card.

As for blacking out, I KNOW! I think I got high off the marker, I used a black perm marker. My husband thought I was going crazy afterwards haha

 

[fandv]

Fencesitter: we met online in early 2011, and will get married in October of this year. So when we marry, we will have known each other for very nearly 2 years. I live in Canada, and she lives in Indonesia. I have visited her in Indonesia a few times, and we even had our engagement party in Indonesia, and our relatives attended the celebration. We also did the marriage preparation course in the cathedral of her city. But yeah, since we are not even married yet, the items you mentioned are not even applicable to us, except photos and emails.

Now, speaking of children: we would like to conceive next year....sometime around summer 2013. If she is pregnant with our child, will it help to strengthen our application? Or is it helpful only after the child was born?


parker24: No, the person was an Indonesian citizen (born and raised in Indonesia her whole life), not a US green card holder.....

LOL...!! Such a funny thing, re: getting high off the marker . The application feels rather....intimidating?? Did you feel like that? So many forms to fill out, and mountaneous of evidence to gather. We don't mind going through all these, since we really love each other, but geez, I have to admit that the workload is almost like preparing a PhD (or at least master's) thesis .
How long did it take you to prepare the application, gather the relationship evidence, etc...? 1 month? 2?

Also...! I am sensing that a standard envelope wouldn't be enough to contain the whole thing when you're mailing it out to the CIC? Did you use a box or..?

 

[parker24]

Fencesitter: we met online in early 2011, and will get married in October of this year. So when we marry, we will have known each other for very nearly 2 years. I live in Canada, and she lives in Indonesia. I have visited her in Indonesia a few times, and we even had our engagement party in Indonesia, and our relatives attended the celebration. We also did the marriage preparation course in the cathedral of her city. But yeah, since we are not even married yet, the items you mentioned are not even applicable to us, except photos and emails.

Now, speaking of children: we would like to conceive next year....sometime around summer 2013. If she is pregnant with our child, will it help to strengthen our application? Or is it helpful only after the child was born?


parker24: No, the person was an Indonesian citizen (born and raised in Indonesia her whole life), not a US green card holder.....

LOL...!! Such a funny thing, re: getting high off the marker . The application feels rather....intimidating?? Did you feel like that? So many forms to fill out, and mountaneous of evidence to gather. We don't mind going through all these, since we really love each other, but geez, I have to admit that the workload is almost like preparing a PhD (or at least master's) thesis .
How long did it take you to prepare the application, gather the relationship evidence, etc...? 1 month? 2?

Also...! I am sensing that a standard envelope wouldn't be enough to contain the whole thing when you're mailing it out to the CIC? Did you use a box or..?

Took us..5 months. Yep. Mostly because we had to wait for his birth certificate and the marriage certificate and the police check. It was all very annoying! We got married in Sept, started working on it in Nov and sent it in March. We used an express post envelope at Canada Post, ours was definitely too big for a standard envelope

 

[fandv]

Quick question about form IMM5406E:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/forms/IMM5406E.PDF

So, for section A:

"Applicant" is of course my future wife (the lovely woman I will be sponsoring).

And the second box "Spouse or common law partner"......surely that's........me right??!

I feel silly asking this.....yes of course her spouse is me....heheh.....but the instruction for that form is a little vague, so I just want to be absolutely sure...!!