Probationary period for Family Class may be as soon as 2011!

[PMM]

Hi

Good point. So let's say conditional visas are a done deal and it's going to happen. Keep in mind that the Minister and his crew have been studying the models of the US, UK and Australia so I think we can anticipate that Canada's new policy would incorporate many similar policies, hopefully taking the best from each country.

The first thing to explain is that under the new system, spouses/partners would be granted a conditional temporary resident visa based on the marriage to a Canadian citizen or permanent resident. So no more immediate PR visas. Here is something I really like that allows an exception to this rule. All of these countries allow immediate PR (in whatever form it's called in that country, i.e. Green Card) to be granted much faster and without conditions if the couple has been married for a certain period of time. For the US it is 2 years, UK is 4 years, and Australia is 5 years or 2 years if you have children. These couples are granted visas much more quickly and don't have to go through the hassles of proving the genuineness of the relationship. Under the current system, it seems really stupid to me that a couple married for several years needs to go through the same process as a couple who is just recently married. But when I say much more quickly, that is in comparison to what the average wait times are for these countries, NOT Canada. For the UK and Australia, it looks like it takes about 3 months and the US, 6 to 9 months. But this is good and I hope Canada includes it in their new policy.

The 2nd thing that I like is what I found with Australia. If a person was sponsored as a spouse to enter that country, there is a 5 year barr for that person to sponsor a new spouse unless the original sponsor died or the new relationship involves dependent children. I only spent an hour reading these rules for 3 different countries so I don't know if there are similar sponsorship barrs in the US and UK. One of the common complaints we see here in Canada in the case of marriage fraud is that the fraudster turns around and immediately sponsors a new spouse. This kind of barr would put an end to this.

There is a 3 year bar in Canada.

The 3rd thing that I liked was that in the US, there is a mechanism to apply for the conditions of the temporary visa to be waived if there sponsored spouse was abused, and therefore allowing them to become PRs without staying with the abusive sponsor. However, these are difficult waivers to get but at least there is a process.

There wasn't much else that I really liked except fiance visas but that is NOT going to happen. Canada has been there and done that and they won't be doing it again. I wish they would but.....

Too much fraud previously in the Fiance/e visas

I would encourage those supporters of conditional visas to do some research as well to see if there is more about the systems of the UK, Australia and the US that could be positively implemented in Canada. Or some unique "Canadian" ideas that could be added. In your reading, you will also discover some pretty negative things that we would like Canada to stay very far away from. For example, the US gives significant priviledge to citizens vs. permanent residents. Wait times for sponsoring spouses to the US if you are a PR can be up to 4 or 5 years vs. 6 to 9 months for citizens. Some might be for that but I'm not. Too each their own.

You will also note that the financial requirements of the sponsor are significantly MORE than what they are to sponsor a spouse/partner in Canada. But at least the UK and Australia allow co-signers (something like that) such as the sponsor's parents, etc.

I found one thing that I liked in the case of sponsoring spouses to Germany. The sponsored person is required to take a German language course before being accepted as a spouse. The reason I like that is if a person has an understanding of English and/or French in Canada, they will be better able to understand the laws and what protections are available to them, making them better able to protect themselves as well as enter the mainstream of Canadian society without feeling lost and alone.

Toby, I just want to say that you know what I do for a living and these changes would make me crazy busy with business so you would think I would support them. But I don't because of all the reasons I stated before. But I appreciate your challenge to make me look for solutions and positives.

It would add to the bureaucracy with 44K sponsored spouses per year, having their status checked. There probably aren't enough Immigration offices inland to monitor them, and then if they are refused, they would have appeal rights as well. This is the same level as Australia. Australia averages 5-10 months for spouses and then another 8 months for processing the permanent visa.

Don't forget the processing time for the US of 6 months is for the Vermont processing centre, not the overseas centre.

 

[rjessome]

Glad you chimed in PMM.

"The 2nd thing that I like is what I found with Australia. If a person was sponsored as a spouse to enter that country, there is a 5 year barr for that person to sponsor a new spouse unless the original sponsor died or the new relationship involves dependent children. I only spent an hour reading these rules for 3 different countries so I don't know if there are similar sponsorship barrs in the US and UK. One of the common complaints we see here in Canada in the case of marriage fraud is that the fraudster turns around and immediately sponsors a new spouse. This kind of barr would put an end to this."


Yeah, I didn't word that well. What I meant is that now, a sponsored spouse who becomes a PR can divorce and sponsor a new spouse as soon as they get remarried. There is no barr on them from becoming a sponsor of a new spouse for any time period. If they are going to make changes to prevent marriage fraud, then creating a barr to sponsor a spouse for the new PR should be one of them.

DEFINITELY more bureaucracy involved with these changes!!! And since, as you said, too much fraud when fiance visa's were allowed in Canada previously, this is just going to add to the current wait times and keep couples apart for even longer periods.

And thanks for more accurate processing times! I knew my very quick reading of the regulations in these countries would likely produce some errors regarding that. It also seemed from my reading that interviews happen about 90% of the time or more. Do you have more accurate stats on that?

Just a little story about a real couple that moved to the US recently that might give a little insight into what we "may" be looking at with these changes. The husband is a dual US/Canadian citizen who has lived in Canada for the past 20 years. Married his Canadian wife 6 years ago. They decided they wanted to move to Hawaii because.... well who wouldn't!! So they bought a house there and he went through the process of applying for PR for his wife. There were absolutely no issues with this couple, no children and they had money. Both are university educated professionals. It took 9 months for all of the processing to be complete and his wife had to fly to Montreal from Vancouver for an interview. They also told me that there were SO MANY forms and financial requirements that they felt they had no choice but to hire a US immigration lawyer to assist them. It all worked out and they are now sunning themselves on some beach in Maui (I'm sooooo jealous) but they just couldn't believe the red tape they had to go through to get it done.

Believe me, lots of Canadian lawyers and immigration consultants are licking their lips for these changes because it will be like hitting the jackpot for those that do spousal sponsorship applications. The legal community believes that these changes are going to make it almost impossible for people to be able to do their own sponsorship applications, thus creating more business.

And someone asked if this would apply to inland sponsorships as well. The answer is YES. If these changes are made, they will apply to ALL spousal/partner sponsorships.

 

[patiently_waiting]

Rjessome or PMM - Do you know if this will or how effect applications still in progress? Thanks!

 

[StillSmilin]

Yes I also was wondering if the probationary period will affect the people who have already been issued their PR visas but have not yet landed before early 2011? My husband was planning on landing in Feb/March and I was wondering if he will now be in position to possibly be put on a probationary period or not?

 

[toby]

Good point. So let's say conditional visas are a done deal and it's going to happen. Keep in mind that the Minister and his crew have been studying the models of the US, UK and Australia so I think we can anticipate that Canada's new policy would incorporate many similar policies, hopefully taking the best from each country....

You made some great points, Rjessome. Now, why not forward them to the Minister via the magazine cited earlier?

 

[waitingintz]

Hello all... very interesting reading everyone's thoughts and comments. I think it's always good to continue reworking a system that isn't perfect to try to make improvements so I'm happy that there is so much discussion and debate and apparently soon some action being taken.

I understand the concerns with the probational period potentially being implemented. Personally, my feeling is that a majority of cases are fine being processed just as they are and shouldn't be subject to a probationary period (as was suggested other countries waive this if a couple meets certain criteria). I think this will relieve a lot of the extra admin/financial burder this system could create. I think adding in a probational option gives the visa officers a second option in situations where they are just not sure. This might even help genuine couples that struggle to get PR under the current system for whatever reason. Obviously a fraudulent couple could just wait it out longer but the greater the committment, hopefully the fewer people willing to try it and while this doesn't solve everything, hopefully it could be a move in the right direction.

Obviously systems would have to be put in place to mitigate issues (like an appeal process would have to be in place to accommodate applicants wanting to remove themselves from an abusive relationship without having to return to their country) but this is true of every system.

Dying to know if these changes will affect applications in progress if anyone hears anything.

Also, if we think this topic is controversial... would be interesting to see the discussion on the immigration implications if the BC courts decide to allow polygamy as a religious right (could people then sponsor multiple spouses??)

 

[YorkFactory]

This smells a bit like pre-election posturing to me. I'm wondering if it will ever see the inside of the House of Commons.

 

[HoneyBird]

how could they be preparing new visa forms when the matter has not been discussed/debated/agreed on etc at the higher level? doesnt that take some time? i would think it would happen like in April-JUne.
how could they move at such speed from simply suggesting to deciding to making it law. it just sounds really strange.

 

[Love_Young]

how could they be preparing new visa forms when the matter has not been discussed/debated/agreed on etc at the higher level? doesnt that take some time? i would think it would happen like in April-JUne.
how could they move at such speed from simply suggesting to deciding to making it law. it just sounds really strange.

It does in fact seem very strange. I was just saying that to hubby how they just put up the survey a couple of months and now they are already deciding on things. If they want to start all over with a new and better immigration system shouldn't they be taking their time to consider all things with it instead of rushing it? I mean that is like taking either your time doing a school project or rushing at the last minute to do it. Which one would you be more confident in?

 

[jessca88]

Hi, I'm just wondering, what does this "probationary period" means? Because I'm planning to sponsor my husband-to-be late next year. Thank you.

 

[toby]

It does in fact seem very strange. I was just saying that to hubby how they just put up the survey a couple of months and now they are already deciding on things. If they want to start all over with a new and better immigration system shouldn't they be taking their time to consider all things with it instead of rushing it? I mean that is like taking either your time doing a school project or rushing at the last minute to do it. Which one would you be more confident in?

I expect that reviewing immigrations procedures is an ongoing process, and that public consultations occur toward the end of the process, when CIC has specific proposals in mind, and wants to test the waters of public reaction.

So, producing new forms now may not be premature at all.

I am glad to see CIC making smaller-scale improvements now, rather than waiting for a large-scale overhaul years in the future. How many useful reforms ever resulted from the mother of all in-depth studies, the Royal Commission? By the time the Commissions had issued their 1000-page reports, no one cared.

 

[medellinguy]

Hi, I'm just wondering, what does this "probationary period" means? Because I'm planning to sponsor my husband-to-be late next year. Thank you.

I am wondering the same thing since i just got accepted as a sponsor and my wife will probably land sometime in 2011 if all goes well (fingers crossed)!

 

[rjessome]

I expect that reviewing immigrations procedures is an ongoing process, and that public consultations occur toward the end of the process, when CIC has specific proposals in mind, and wants to test the waters of public reaction.

The public consultations have already occurred.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/releases/2010/2010-10-31.asp

Hi, I'm just wondering, what does this "probationary period" means? Because I'm planning to sponsor my husband-to-be late next year. Thank you.

It means that rather than receiving PR at the end of the application assessment, if approved a sponsored spouse will receive a conditional temporary resident visa based on their marriage/relationship to the Canadian sponsor. The TRV will enable the sponsored person to work and have access to health care, etc. The main condition of the TRV is that the couple remain married/in a relationship AND living together for the duration of the probationary period (probably 2 years), and if they do so and can prove it, they will apply to have the condition lifted and become a PR.

Rjessome or PMM - Do you know if this will or how effect applications still in progress? Thanks!

If an application has not been decided (visa issued), then any changes to the Regulations would affect applications still in process where no final decision has been made. If a visa has been issued before any changes are announced, then it is extremely unlikely that these changes would have any impact on them.

I wonder where CIC is going to get the money to implement all of this, if it is coming? They are understaffed now. Issuing OWP's and removing conditions for up to 45,000 sponsored spouses every year is not a small task. Perhaps CBSA will be responsible for issuing the OWP for the sponsored person upon landing in Canada for outland sponsorship and the inland offices will be given the task for those already in Canada. But the evaluation and removal of conditions is a whole new job, not to mention evaluation of special circumstances.

 

[HoneyBird]

so realistically can this law be passed and in process by February?

 

[Love_Young]

I don't mind them putting this new system out, I just to think it is fair to us being judged on a new system when we are still in process. Especially if we get refused or have it returned back after all this time because they say we didn't do it right. Ugh...I hate to say it, but I am scared to see how this turns out for us all already in process.