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PGP 2020

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,491
13,480
So wont it be better if they just canceled PGP outright? You're not answering because you are afraid to say it.

I have mentioned before that Canada can afford to expand healthcare services. Canada can improve economically if we wanted to. There is more that we can do to improve industries.

It is all this obsession to want to look good, come across politically correct, SJW.

Image. Face.

So I am not worried for the long term because if things really do get bad economically or financially Canada has a lot it can do to raise money. Resource rich. Canadians are just having it good so they want to keep resources in the ground single nation wise try to save planet earth etc.

When push comes to shove things will change. Beggars cannot be choosers. Of course Canada is no beggar. No where near.

You probably wont understand what I mean because all your life you have lived in a rich country like Canada. Heard of the term first world problems?

Canada wants to look good. Which is also why they maintain the PGP. It is a luxury. That's my opinion. Fits in with the whole theme of Canada being cool being open to immigrants and refugees and is full of kindness and compassion and is charitable. Beggars and poor nations do not behave like this.

Economically it would be better for the PGP to be canceled of course. It will also help reduce the burden on the healthcare system.

But as someone who has parents that I am sponsoring I will say I am grateful and thankful that PGP exists. And I also hope it continues so other immigrants can have the joy of sponsoring their parents too. What I have enjoyed I wish for others too. Plus I do think Canada can afford it if it makes sacrifices on some issues.

What about you @canuck78 ? You are not an immigrant. Your parents are born here. What is your interest and objective in coming here to this forum?
I have never disclosed my parents immigration history. I have a lot of history with immigration and knowledge about mining, geology, etc. Yes I was born in Canada but other than that you know nothing about my history with other countries.

Even if Canada expands it healthcare services, which there is no plans to do, we may actually meet the need of the people already in Canada. No 2 year waits for longterm care, ERs being closed on weekends, no 25 year waits for group homes for disabled adults, etc. If there is increased spending it will go to trying to meet the current challenges. I could go on. On top of that the cost of care has increased from physician salaries (which you know about as an MD), to cost of new therapies, etc. The cost of healthcare has not been increasing with the cost of inflation In has increased much more dramatically. Many provinces are trying to cut services and find efficiencies. You seem to think that Canada has these expensive resources that area easy to take out of the ground. Canada has actual environmental standards and labour laws so you’re not going to see your children crawl down a hole to mine rare earth metals. If there is a recession or the provinces or federal government want to tackle their deficits thy should start digging holes to find natural resources. That is hugely simplifying things and not how it works. Many of the projects take decades of searching and planning. You seem to think that the oil sands are the answer to everything but with the price of oil in the $50s it doesn’t make sense for many companies to invest unless oil prices are much higher. The bigger oil producers and speculation has control over the oil prices not a minor player like Canada. None of the resources that Canada have are easier to get to, they are extremely expensive to harvest/collect and we actually pay our workers. I imagine there will be arctic oil exploration but that comes with a ton of investment from companies and steps to try and safeguard our clean water.

You are quick to say that the PGP program does not make sense economically and it is basically a humanitarian program which is exactly what I have been saying. Your previous stance was that you did’t care about the future of the program now that your parents were sponsored. Now you would like others to benefit. I would imagine if your parent didn’t have a family doctor, had to wait 2 years for a hip replacement (which is possible in Alberta with it’s very long orthopaedic wait times) or had to wait a few years for a long term care spot you would change your opinion.

I would like the provinces, who actually deliver the services, to be able to have an opinion about the volume of applicants that are accepted through PGP. Unfortunately PGP has become purely a political issue to gain votes and not an actual analysis on whether this is a smart economic move. Countries like Australia implemented foreign ownership taxes on real estate before us and also does not allow patents to move and have access to healthcare (along with many other requirements).
 
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Bs65

VIP Member
Mar 22, 2016
13,187
2,420
Off topic and not looking for a Canada versus Australia debate so please do not start one but if you look at some categories of Parent visa for Australia where they quote between 5 upto 30 years to finalise and the fee costs are astronomical (43.5k CAN plus for the Contributory visa) , then Canada PGP does not look that bad regardless whether random or first in or even a restrictive quota.

https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-processing-times/family-visa-processing-priorities/parent-visas-queue-release-dates
 
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nayr69sg

Champion Member
Apr 13, 2017
1,571
679
I have never disclosed my parents immigration history. I have a lot of history with immigration and knowledge about mining, geology, etc. Yes I was born in Canada but other than that you know nothing about my history with other countries.

Even if Canada expands it healthcare services, which there is no plans to do, we may actually meet the need of the people already in Canada. No 2 year waits for longterm care, ERs being closed on weekends, no 25 year waits for group homes for disabled adults, etc. If there is increased spending it will go to trying to meet the current challenges. I could go on. On top of that the cost of care has increased from physician salaries (which you know about as an MD), to cost of new therapies, etc. The cost of healthcare has not been increasing with the cost of inflation In has increased much more dramatically. Many provinces are trying to cut services and find efficiencies. You seem to think that Canada has these expensive resources that area easy to take out of the ground. Canada has actual environmental standards and labour laws so you’re not going to see your children crawl down a hole to mine rare earth metals. If there is a recession or the provinces or federal government want to tackle their deficits thy should start digging holes to find natural resources. That is hugely simplifying things and not how it works. Many of the projects take decades of searching and planning. You seem to think that the oil sands are the answer to everything but with the price of oil in the $50s it doesn’t make sense for many companies to invest unless oil prices are much higher. The bigger oil producers and speculation has control over the oil prices not a minor player like Canada. None of the resources that Canada have are easier to get to, they are extremely expensive to harvest/collect and we actually pay our workers. I imagine there will be arctic oil exploration but that comes with a ton of investment from companies and steps to try and safeguard our clean water.

You are quick to say that the PGP program does not make sense economically and it is basically a humanitarian program which is exactly what I have been saying. Your previous stance was that you did’t care about the future of the program now that your parents were sponsored. Now you would like others to benefit. I would imagine if your parent didn’t have a family doctor, had to wait 2 years for a hip replacement (which is possible in Alberta with it’s very long orthopaedic wait times) or had to wait a few years for a long term care spot you would change your opinion.

I would like the provinces, who actually deliver the services, to be able to have an opinion about the volume of applicants that are accepted through PGP. Unfortunately PGP has become purely a political issue to gain votes and not an actual analysis on whether this is a smart economic move. Countries like Australia implemented foreign ownership taxes on real estate before us and also does not allow patents to move and have access to healthcare (along with many other requirements).
Happy New Year! Hope 2020 is good for you.

So once again I will ask you. Would you rather PGP be cancelled? From what you post it sounds like you do.

Yet you remain around advising people on how to go about sponsoring their parents.

So where do you stand?
 
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canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,491
13,480
Happy New Year! Hope 2020 is good for you.

So once again I will ask you. Would you rather PGP be cancelled? From what you post it sounds like you do.

Yet you remain around advising people on how to go about sponsoring their parents.

So where do you stand?
Not sure how many times I have to repost my personal stances on PGP. I want the provinces to determine what kind of capacity they think they can absorb on an annual basis. This is an analysis that should have been done to begin with but there is often a disconnect between federal and provincial politics and budgets. PGP is a federal program but the costs and services are at the provincial level. There is always a balance between what makes economic sense and a humanitarian component.

“Not hiding my belief that 27k applicants per year so 40-50k seniors is too many seniors for Canada to absorb considering that the Canadian healthcare system is far from meeting the current demands and as the costs of delivering healthcare increases. I think that amount of PGP applications per year needs to be lowered and the amount of applications needs to be made in consultation with the provinces who actually deliver all services from healthcare to social services. There is a disconnect between the federal policy makers and what happens in the provinces. Not just for PGP but for various policies.”

Providing information to people has nothing to do with my opinion. I think that all Canadians should be interested in Canadian policies including immigration.

I have empathy for both Canadians who can’t find a family doctor, wait months to years to see a specialist and get no home care because the budget have run out of money. But I also have empathy for those who would like for their parents to come to Canada. Not sure if you have actually dealt with a family member who is ageing or dying but it is very different versus being the practionner.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,491
13,480
Off topic and not looking for a Canada versus Australia debate so please do not start one but if you look at some categories of Parent visa for Australia where they quote between 5 upto 30 years to finalise and the fee costs are astronomical (43.5k CAN plus for the Contributory visa) , then Canada PGP does not look that bad regardless whether random or first in or even a restrictive quota.

https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-processing-times/family-visa-processing-priorities/parent-visas-queue-release-dates
Other interesting examples about the changes in the Australian system for visits and permanent residency. It is much more difficult and expensive. Unfortunately then many decide to move to Canada anticipating that it will be easier and faster to sponsor their parents here. One of the reasons why it should be clear that nothing is guaranteed and things can change year to year so people do not move to Canada with plains that their parents can join them in a year through a supervisa and then apply for PGP while still on that supervisa.
 

nayr69sg

Champion Member
Apr 13, 2017
1,571
679
Not sure how many times I have to repost my personal stances on PGP. I want the provinces to determine what kind of capacity they think they can absorb on an annual basis. This is an analysis that should have been done to begin with but there is often a disconnect between federal and provincial politics and budgets. PGP is a federal program but the costs and services are at the provincial level. There is always a balance between what makes economic sense and a humanitarian component.

“Not hiding my belief that 27k applicants per year so 40-50k seniors is too many seniors for Canada to absorb considering that the Canadian healthcare system is far from meeting the current demands and as the costs of delivering healthcare increases. I think that amount of PGP applications per year needs to be lowered and the amount of applications needs to be made in consultation with the provinces who actually deliver all services from healthcare to social services. There is a disconnect between the federal policy makers and what happens in the provinces. Not just for PGP but for various policies.”

Providing information to people has nothing to do with my opinion. I think that all Canadians should be interested in Canadian policies including immigration.

I have empathy for both Canadians who can’t find a family doctor, wait months to years to see a specialist and get no home care because the budget have run out of money. But I also have empathy for those who would like for their parents to come to Canada. Not sure if you have actually dealt with a family member who is ageing or dying but it is very different versus being the practionner.
Yes I have.

Actually the wait times you give are way longer than what happens in Alberta. I guess it isnt so bad where I am.

Your family doctor also plays a part in getting you access quicker. Not all specialist work the same way. Some are more efficient some are not. I know who to refer to to get quicker consult. I also know how to get the orthopedic surgeons to see cases who need joint replacement sooner and schedule surgery faster.

Direct referrals to specialists work better than going through the zonal triage system.

Why would ER close on weekends?

In Calgary there are so many new family physicians now that some are complaining they cannot find enough patients. "Accepting new patients" signs are everywhere.

I work in the system and I can say it isnt that bad. Will it get worse? Probably with the poor economy in Alberta. But how bad? I dont think it is to the extent that you paint. But that's Alberta. It is probably different in other provinces.

Confederation is broken. Federal elections are determined by you know which provinces. So the disconnect you speak of is all over not just in immigration and healthcare.

Ontario's debt to GDP ratio is 39.9%! Alberta is about 16%. I find it silly for Alberta to try to be a hero to save Canada economically. We should just borrow and spend on infrastructure till our debt to GDP ratio catches up to the national average which is about 30% ie double what it is now.
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,298
2,167
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013

Kelon

Full Member
Jan 21, 2013
39
19
How do we get our voices heard somehow by the minister. Who do I send an email to or mail a letter to. Or sign a petition.

Suggested criteria:
1. Must be a citizen
2. Provide income tax of 10 years with no welfare.
3. parents sponsorship only
 
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steaky

VIP Member
Nov 11, 2008
14,747
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Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
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mrinmoyee

Newbie
Dec 29, 2019
1
0
How do we get our voices heard somehow by the minister. Who do I send an email to or mail a letter to. Or sign a petition.

Suggested criteria:
1. Must be a citizen
2. Provide income tax of 10 years with no welfare.
3. parents sponsorship only


What do you mean by Provide income tax of 10 years with no welfare ? My income range is now 85,000 and I didn't have this income for 10 yrs.
 

Kelon

Full Member
Jan 21, 2013
39
19
What do you mean by Provide income tax of 10 years with no welfare ? My income range is now 85,000 and I didn't have this income for 10 yrs.
I mean working in Canada for a minimum 10 years, income tax is the proof and of course with no welfare, government assistance.