PGP 2020

[canuck_in_uk]

why PGP2020 policy not yet released? last year it was already released right?

As stated several times already, it has been delayed.

 

[nayr69sg]

How do we get our voices heard somehow by the minister. Who do I send an email to or mail a letter to. Or sign a petition.

Suggested criteria:
1. Must be a citizen
2. Provide income tax of 10 years with no welfare.
3. parents sponsorship only

There are two parts to the consideration.

One is the side of the immigrants who want to sponsor their parents. They will want to sponsor them sooner rather than later. Parents are old. Could be frail. Waiting 10 years just to apply might be too long.

The other side is Canadians who are unhappy that elderly parents are coming to overburden the healthcare system.

Is there a way to seek a compromise between the two groups?

That 10 year requirement you spoke of neither pleased the immigrants nor the Canadians worried about healthcare system collapse. So I dont think it will be used.

Having discussed this ad nauseam with no way to have a compromise i think the current program requirements doesnt really need too many tweaks.

It is the process of applying that has to be improved. Immigrants dont complain about the 3 year NOA meeting LICO requirements. 3 years is fair.

For the Canadians they just want the program canceled outright. One more elderly person needing healthcare is not what they want to see. On the other hand adding requirements for children to fully foot their parents healthcare bills is against the principles of equality and fairness for a fellow PR so Canadians dont like that either (of course immigrants wont either)

I would suggest that the government keep the PGP low profile. Low publicity. In order to do so it needs a well thought out application process that will not be open to legal attacks and challenges which the media will then report on.

So here are my suggestions

1) Keep the requirements the same as they are now. 3 year NOAs meeting LICO for family size.

2)Make if FIFO. First 10,000 applications get a spot for ITA.

3) application process remains the same. Valid email address. Personal Identification to show proof of Canadian residency. Declare that one meets requirements. However add a clause stating that any false declarations made may result in suspension from applying to the PGP in future years. Keep it vague. Do not actually bar anyone. But just as a potential threat. IRCC could choose to monitor and choose to bar recalcitrant offenders.

4) leave the interest to sponsor stage open for 1-2 months. Maybe 45 days? Granted there may actually be 10,000 applications already in after 10 minutes. But you can state things like the first 10,000 ELIGIBLE applications will get ITA. This gives applicants hope. Also by not being openly transparent about who is the first 10,000 (ie when issuing confirmation numbers do not go in numerical order or have clues to suggest which position you are in), the applicants will not know where they are in the FIFO competition. Inform the applicants after a few months (cooling off)

I think it will work.

People were upset the last round because the system closed after just 10 minutes! We keep hearing people say they never even got the chance to submit their applications. Or that they couldn't even open the page online. This is an easy fix. Just leave the website open and let people send in their applications. The Lottery system probably took in 100,000 applications. IRCC had to run a lottery (closed not open to public) and choose 10,000. So I dont see why the system cannot have on file 100,000 applications using FIFO and rank them in order of when received and just take the first 10,000? And if one is deemed not eligible then pick the 10,001th.

And if all else fails they can go back to the lottery system.

I have explained why I do not like the lottery system. It trivializes the whole program. But hey if we have to find ways to satisfy handicapped people, people who are computer illiterate and so on. Well that's a tough one. Maybe have a separate category of FIFO for handicapped? Submit additional certification from their family doctor supporting this?

 

[PGP2020_Aspirant]

Alright this thread isn't for discussing how PGP should be changed in 2020 and at the end only the great Hon IRCC Minister Mendicino gets to decide what exactly happens, furthermore IRCC hasn't shared any formal stakeholdering opportunity where they would have been willing to collect opinions from public. The Canadian Bar Association (body of professional lawyers) in their letter to IRCC recommended that you do some type of 'weighted lottery', where every year if you loose out of the lottery, the following year you get a higher chance.

But here is my personal opinion from my analysis:

- Demand will stay at 100k, cant change that, spots will stay at 20k or so, cant change that.
- PGP comes out of the 'Family Reunification' aspect of Canadian immigration laws aka IRPA, and so you cannot tie eligibility to whoever is richer. What I mean to say is the income levels required to qualify will stay at LICO, and years to 3.
- Some PRs being bound to not being able to become citizens because of home country rules is also a valid point, therefore you cannot make Canadian citizenship a requirement to participate.
- Previous dept reports show grandparents are not a big chunk of the people coming in anyways, so the govt will probably not wanna limit the program to only parents either.

So, how do we destill 20k spots between 100k people while being far? i think IRCC should come up with a scoring system that just takes two things in to account: for how many years have you been expressing interest to sponser your parents, and how many years you have lived in Canada or filed taxes.

i think eligibility based on these two things only would be the most fair and attract the least number of law suits. What do you guys think?

 

[Tarandeep Sabharwal]

Hi Everyone,

Happy New Year to all of you.

I believe the PGP 2020 will be very competitive as I heard that almost 100,000 people reach out to Interest to Sponsor form in 2019 and there was a backlog from 2011-2015 when conservatives were in power.

I applied for my parents sponsorship in 2019 and I was lucky enough to fill out the form in 4 minutes and get a spot.

As the Immigration minister has been changed, we can expect some sensible procedure for PGP 2020 application process and if they can't come up with any fair procedure, there will be hue and cry again. One thing is for sure that If EOI exists for PGP 2020 , it won't be a running race and all the applicants will have ample time to fill out EOI.

Also, If they don't go with lottery system after EOI submission, IRCC is left with only one option and that is to make applicants ineligible on some grounds to reduce the number.

This is really a good forum to gain information on immigration processes.

Best of luck to all of you who will be applying in 2020.

 

[PGP2020_Aspirant]

So just to clarify further, just like how the express entry CRS score changes every round, IRCC should each year look at the expressions of interest submitted after a reasonable time, and see which ones are the most worthy each time according to the two conditions of how may times have they expressed interest before (as a qualified candidate) and how long they have been in Canada.

Furthermore a year limit should also be put, for example if someone has been expressing interest for 3 years in a row, the fourth year they are guaranteed a spot.

This way the govt can continue to be fair and adjust to the type of people that submit their interest every year. No need to lift caps and everybody is happy and knows about their chances so no sueing either.

 

[Copingwithlife]

So just to clarify further, just like how the express entry CRS score changes every round, IRCC should each year look at the expressions of interest submitted after a reasonable time, and see which ones are the most worthy each time according to the two conditions of how may times have they expressed interest before (as a qualified candidate) and how long they have been in Canada.

Furthermore a year limit should also be put, for example if someone has been expressing interest for 3 years in a row, the fourth year they are guaranteed a spot.

This way the govt can continue to be fair and adjust to the type of people that submit their interest every year. No need to lift caps and everybody is happy and knows about their chances so no sueing either.

Don’t use the word “ guaranteed “, no one is guaranteed to sponsor their parents/grandparents, and that’s half the problem. People assume it’s their right, it’s not

 

[Tarandeep Sabharwal]

So just to clarify further, just like how the express entry CRS score changes every round, IRCC should each year look at the expressions of interest submitted after a reasonable time, and see which ones are the most worthy each time according to the two conditions of how may times have they expressed interest before (as a qualified candidate) and how long they have been in Canada.

Furthermore a year limit should also be put, for example if someone has been expressing interest for 3 years in a row, the fourth year they are guaranteed a spot.

This way the govt can continue to be fair and adjust to the type of people that submit their interest every year. No need to lift caps and everybody is happy and knows about their chances so no sueing either.

These are really good thoughts but implementation seems bit difficult as the govt is for 4 years term (I believe) and in the meantime if the government changes they crap the previous system.
But scoring system is really good idea and all the aspects should be covered eg. age, family balance, family ties, for how many years you are filing taxes etc etc.

Also, I suggest that whole fees should be submitted by sponsor/applicant upfront (This will reduce the applicants who waste the spots)

 

[PGP2020_Aspirant]

Don’t use the word “ guaranteed “, no one is guaranteed to sponsor their parents/grandparents, and that’s half the problem. People assume it’s their right, it’s not

I am clearly only referring to the process of elimination that should be followed to arrive at 20k spots from 100k interests. You are stating the obvious I am not asking parent sponsorship be made a right. I am suggesting a qualifying process to distill from 100k down to 20k which is unique to the pool of people that apply each year. By guarantee I did not mean that the application process in place be bypassed in any way once you do get invited to apply.

 

[PGP2020_Aspirant]

I just really strongly believe that as far as fairness to access those 20k spots goes, no one can have an issue with those two criteria: aka how long have you been in Canada for and for how long have you been trying to claim one of those 20k spots. H&C grounds aside, you really cant say that someone living in the country longer having a higher chance for those 20k spots which could allow them to bring their parents to that country is unfair in any way.

Also PGP is more a gift directed to the sponsor in Canada not the parents coming in, so the selection criteria will have to be about the sponsor, unlike express entry which is more about the person coming in. Therefore you cannot introduce any points based on the parents qualification (aka age, employment history etc) because that goes against the whole ideology behind PGP which is family reunification. A sponsor who has been expressing interest for many years and who has been living in Canada for long time should not be penalized from being reunited with their parents just because their parents did not study enough or are older than others parents, thats letting in unfairness again.

 

[Buletruck]

My thought since the intent is to settle in Canada permanently. PGP isn't family reunification.

• Up residency obligation to 3 or 4 years from the current 2
• Parents/Grand parents Supervisa increases to 3-4 years. Working age receive a work permit
• Reduce LICO requirements for those parents that have obtained full time work for the duration. Keep LICO for those who don't.
• No more than 30 days outside of Canada in any year during the supervisa, or you start from scratch.
• Make it a points based system, with added points for employment and age
• Apply after 3-4 years.
• No cap for those employed. 10K spots for those who aren't
• Same financial obligations as currently set out.

 

[Kelon]

There are two parts to the consideration.

One is the side of the immigrants who want to sponsor their parents. They will want to sponsor them sooner rather than later. Parents are old. Could be frail. Waiting 10 years just to apply might be too long.

The other side is Canadians who are unhappy that elderly parents are coming to overburden the healthcare system.

Is there a way to seek a compromise between the two groups?

That 10 year requirement you spoke of neither pleased the immigrants nor the Canadians worried about healthcare system collapse. So I dont think it will be used.

Having discussed this ad nauseam with no way to have a compromise i think the current program requirements doesnt really need too many tweaks.

It is the process of applying that has to be improved. Immigrants dont complain about the 3 year NOA meeting LICO requirements. 3 years is fair.

For the Canadians they just want the program canceled outright. One more elderly person needing healthcare is not what they want to see. On the other hand adding requirements for children to fully foot their parents healthcare bills is against the principles of equality and fairness for a fellow PR so Canadians dont like that either (of course immigrants wont either)

I would suggest that the government keep the PGP low profile. Low publicity. In order to do so it needs a well thought out application process that will not be open to legal attacks and challenges which the media will then report on.

So here are my suggestions

1) Keep the requirements the same as they are now. 3 year NOAs meeting LICO for family size.

2)Make if FIFO. First 10,000 applications get a spot for ITA.

3) application process remains the same. Valid email address. Personal Identification to show proof of Canadian residency. Declare that one meets requirements. However add a clause stating that any false declarations made may result in suspension from applying to the PGP in future years. Keep it vague. Do not actually bar anyone. But just as a potential threat. IRCC could choose to monitor and choose to bar recalcitrant offenders.

4) leave the interest to sponsor stage open for 1-2 months. Maybe 45 days? Granted there may actually be 10,000 applications already in after 10 minutes. But you can state things like the first 10,000 ELIGIBLE applications will get ITA. This gives applicants hope. Also by not being openly transparent about who is the first 10,000 (ie when issuing confirmation numbers do not go in numerical order or have clues to suggest which position you are in), the applicants will not know where they are in the FIFO competition. Inform the applicants after a few months (cooling off)

I think it will work.

People were upset the last round because the system closed after just 10 minutes! We keep hearing people say they never even got the chance to submit their applications. Or that they couldn't even open the page online. This is an easy fix. Just leave the website open and let people send in their applications. The Lottery system probably took in 100,000 applications. IRCC had to run a lottery (closed not open to public) and choose 10,000. So I dont see why the system cannot have on file 100,000 applications using FIFO and rank them in order of when received and just take the first 10,000? And if one is deemed not eligible then pick the 10,001th.

And if all else fails they can go back to the lottery system.

I have explained why I do not like the lottery system. It trivializes the whole program. But hey if we have to find ways to satisfy handicapped people, people who are computer illiterate and so on. Well that's a tough one. Maybe have a separate category of FIFO for handicapped? Submit additional certification from their family doctor supporting this?

Well explained but This will bring us back to where we are now I think. So many immigrants qualify that’s why there were 100k interests. The first solution is to streamline the requirements so that less people qualify. Of course it doesn’t have to be 10 years, it can be 5 minimum.

Qualification requirements of years spent in the country is fair for everyone.

 

[Kelon]

Alright this thread isn't for discussing how PGP should be changed in 2020 and at the end only the great Hon IRCC Minister Mendicino gets to decide what exactly happens, furthermore IRCC hasn't shared any formal stakeholdering opportunity where they would have been willing to collect opinions from public. The Canadian Bar Association (body of professional lawyers) in their letter to IRCC recommended that you do some type of 'weighted lottery', where every year if you loose out of the lottery, the following year you get a higher chance.

But here is my personal opinion from my analysis:

- Demand will stay at 100k, cant change that, spots will stay at 20k or so, cant change that.
- PGP comes out of the 'Family Reunification' aspect of Canadian immigration laws aka IRPA, and so you cannot tie eligibility to whoever is richer. What I mean to say is the income levels required to qualify will stay at LICO, and years to 3.
- Some PRs being bound to not being able to become citizens because of home country rules is also a valid point, therefore you cannot make Canadian citizenship a requirement to participate.
- Previous dept reports show grandparents are not a big chunk of the people coming in anyways, so the govt will probably not wanna limit the program to only parents either.

So, how do we destill 20k spots between 100k people while being far? i think IRCC should come up with a scoring system that just takes two things in to account: for how many years have you been expressing interest to sponser your parents, and how many years you have lived in Canada or filed taxes.

i think eligibility based on these two things only would be the most fair and attract the least number of law suits. What do you guys think?

Hmm, the thread is not for discussing how the process will be changed and then you are having suggestions? Cool stuff.

We don’t know what the demand will be when and if requirements change. There is no survey done yet to realize what the numbers will be.

The previous system and existing process is a broken system that’s why obviously this program is on hold.

whatever IRCC chose will not make everyone happy, it’s likely not going to be for the majority. They will focus on fairness, that’s their message.

 

[Kelon]

Hi Everyone,

Happy New Year to all of you.

I believe the PGP 2020 will be very competitive as I heard that almost 100,000 people reach out to Interest to Sponsor form in 2019 and there was a backlog from 2011-2015 when conservatives were in power.

I applied for my parents sponsorship in 2019 and I was lucky enough to fill out the form in 4 minutes and get a spot.

As the Immigration minister has been changed, we can expect some sensible procedure for PGP 2020 application process and if they can't come up with any fair procedure, there will be hue and cry again. One thing is for sure that If EOI exists for PGP 2020 , it won't be a running race and all the applicants will have ample time to fill out EOI.

Also, If they don't go with lottery system after EOI submission, IRCC is left with only one option and that is to make applicants ineligible on some grounds to reduce the number.

This is really a good forum to gain information on immigration processes.

Best of luck to all of you who will be applying in 2020.

That’s it, they have to find a way to reduce the amount. That’s the goal. It’s fair too.

 

[parvisingh]

This 100,000 number of people tried to access the form online. My understanding is IRCC is only taking into account the people that requested the webpage. This is how they are able to ascertain how many people were interested in the program. Now there may be a lot of duplicates in this itself. I was able to fill the form but I remember I accessed the page 4-5 when it was open. So this 100k number may be too inflated WRT to the number of people interested in this program.

It is interesting to see how people are proposing changes to fit themselves in. As a gentle reminder to everyone, the Minister of Immigration does not read this forum. If you are interested in sharing something with him you should write to him.

 

[Dainik]

This 100,000 number of people tried to access the form online. My understanding is IRCC is only taking into account the people that requested the webpage. This is how they are able to ascertain how many people were interested in the program. Now there may be a lot of duplicates in this itself. I was able to fill the form but I remember I accessed the page 4-5 when it was open. So this 100k number may be too inflated WRT to the number of people interested in this program.

It is interesting to see how people are proposing changes to fit themselves in. As a gentle reminder to everyone, the Minister of Immigration does not read this forum. If you are interested in sharing something with him you should write to him.

Even if you write to the Minister, he is not gonna even read it. They cant even ask for suggestions because they have hired people for that. What IRCC needs to do is atleast come to the forums like these and have an idea what Citizens are thinking and if they like the suggestions, implement them. PRs should not be allowed to sponsor, period. Because they dont have 100% loyality towards Canada. PRs have to pick one country in which they want to live. They must get the Canadian Citizenship and renounce their back home citizenship if they are so desperate to bring their parents to Canada.