Out of Status in Canada. Urgent Advice Needed.

[Jhama]

I am a U.S. Citizen. I came to Canada originally when I was hired by a Canadian company. I lived and worked in Canada legally for several years. I met a girl in Canada, fell in love and we started living together.

Time passed. A lot of time. As a result, I'm still in Canada, and now well out of status. (over 10 years now).

Other than being 'out of status', which I realize is serious, I have not broken any other laws or done anything else limited by the visitor status I last had. I haven't worked or studied illegally, and we're still in a great relationship. I stay home and take care of the house, manage our finances, cooking, laundry.

My partner's work is sending her to a 3rd world country next week, (yes, with nearly no notice) for 2 to 3 months. I'm very concerned about her safety travelling alone to where she's going. I would like to accompany her, however, I am very worried if I do, I may not be allowed back into Canada.

We have been stressing over my status for some time, and would we would like to rectify my status so that I can be legal again.

We realize that my overstaying is serious and we need to resolve the issue.

I have checked the immigration procedures for a common law relationship (we've been living together as husband and wife all this time) and it seems there is a provision which I found on the CIC website (I'm sure everyone here is familiar with it)

It states:

On February 18, 2005, CIC Minister Joe Volpe announced that spouses and common-law partners in Canada, regardless of their immigration status, are now able to apply for permanent residence from within Canada under the Spouse or Common-Law Partner in Canada Class.

I have done a bit of research and I believe I know the pros and cons of applying inland versus outland, but I am unsure which would be the best way for me to go. I no longer have any homes in the U.S, as I have made my life with my partner here, my home.

It seems my sponsor is qualified, and meets all of the qualifications listed on CIC website. We've been meaning to start this for years now, and it just seemed like such an overwhelming and complex procedure, we never initiated it. It's been eating me up for a long time. I feel so ashamed I'm having a hard time posting in a public forum.

I'm seeking some expert advice.

Thank you very much for your time, courtesy and consideration.

 

[michaella1964]

I am a U.S. Citizen. I came to Canada originally when I was hired by a Canadian company. I lived and worked in Canada legally for several years. I met a girl in Canada, fell in love and we started living together.

Time passed. A lot of time. As a result, I'm still in Canada, and now well out of status. (over 10 years now).

Other than being 'out of status', which I realize is serious, I have not broken any other laws or done anything else limited by the visitor status I last had. I haven't worked or studied illegally, and we're still in a great relationship. I stay home and take care of the house, manage our finances, cooking, laundry.

My partner's work is sending her to a 3rd world country next week, (yes, with nearly no notice) for 2 to 3 months. I'm very concerned about her safety travelling alone to where she's going. I would like to accompany her, however, I am very worried if I do, I may not be allowed back into Canada.

We have been stressing over my status for some time, and would we would like to rectify my status so that I can be legal again.

We realize that my overstaying is serious and we need to resolve the issue.

I have checked the immigration procedures for a common law relationship (we've been living together as husband and wife all this time) and it seems there is a provision which I found on the CIC website (I'm sure everyone here is familiar with it)

It states:

On February 18, 2005, CIC Minister Joe Volpe announced that spouses and common-law partners in Canada, regardless of their immigration status, are now able to apply for permanent residence from within Canada under the Spouse or Common-Law Partner in Canada Class.

I have done a bit of research and I believe I know the pros and cons of applying inland versus outland, but I am unsure which would be the best way for me to go. I no longer have any homes in the U.S, as I have made my life with my partner here, my home.

It seems my sponsor is qualified, and meets all of the qualifications listed on CIC website. We've been meaning to start this for years now, and it just seemed like such an overwhelming and complex procedure, we never initiated it. It's been eating me up for a long time. I feel so ashamed I'm having a hard time posting in a public forum.

I'm seeking some expert advice.

Thank you very much for your time, courtesy and consideration.

WELL THE ONLY THING I CAN THINK OF IS APPLIYNG FOR COMMEN LAW SPONSOR,BUT IF U GO INLAND THE DOWNFALL IS THE WAITING TIME LINE VERSE OUTLAND BUT BECAUSE U ARE ALREADY HERE JUST PROVE TO THEM THAT EVEN BEING OUT OF STATUS U HAVE BEEN HELPINGTO SOPORT UR HOUSEHOLD BY STAYING HOME AND EXPLAIN WHAT YOOU HAVE BEEN DOING ,BUT DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE MENTION UR STUDIES AND WORK WITHOUT VISA OR PERMITS THATS NOT GOOD SO JUST MENTION THAT U DID SOME VOLUNTEER WORK AND GOT INVOLVED IN UR COMMUNITY FOR FREE THAT ALWAYS HELPS,AND GO FROM THERE,SO WITHOUT A STATUS FOR THAT LONG I DONT KNOW WHAT THERE REACTION WILL BE BUT THATS REALLY THE ONLY ONE U CAN GO FOR NOW UNLESS SOMEONE ELSE KNOWS FOR SOMETHING ELSE HOPE THIS HELPED A LITTLE

 

[JessNess]

Keep in mind if you file an application INLAND, you should not leave Canada at all during the process especially since you've been out of status.

 

[meyakanor]

Regardless on whether you apply inland or outland, you won't be able to get your status rectified on time for her departure next week to the so-called unsafe third-world country.

Inland application takes about 18 months (according to the CIC website), during which time, as JessNess said, you probably should not leave at all (since you are out of status, and the likelihood of re-entry refusal would be very high if you leave the country; if you are refused entry back to Canada, your inland application will be dismissed, and you will have to re-apply).

Outland applications take roughly the same amount of time for US citizens, but if they need to conduct interview, they would most likely have it at some visa offices in the States, so you're running the risk of having to leave Canada if you choose the outland route.

 

[rhcohen2014]

Regardless on whether you apply inland or outland, you won't be able to get your status rectified on time for her departure next week to the so-called unsafe third-world country.

Inland application takes about 18 months (according to the CIC website), during which time, as JessNess said, you probably should not leave at all (since you are out of status, and the likelihood of re-entry refusal would be very high if you leave the country; if you are refused entry back to Canada, your inland application will be dismissed, and you will have to re-apply).

Outland applications take roughly the same amount of time for US citizens, but if they need to conduct interview, they would most likely have it at some visa offices in the States, so you're running the risk of having to leave Canada if you choose the outland route.

outland applicants for the US are taking 8-10 months right now. US outland applications do NOT process in the same amount of time as applying inland. Outland takes considerably less time.

 

[Jhama]

BUT DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE MENTION UR STUDIES AND WORK WITHOUT VISA OR PERMITS THATS NOT GOOD

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I was trying to be factual and to the point, as opposed to my usual rambling, so I may have not been very clear, although I did say I have NOT worked or studied in Canada, after my work visa expired. After that, I was on a normal visitor visa, which.. I've overstayed.

Thank you very much Jess. If I apply from inland, most definately stay here through it.

Meyakanor, thank you as well for taking the time to respond. I didn't mention specifically where she's going, so as not to offend anyone, and also not to be too specific, since that's not what's important in this case. However, where she's going is quite well known worldwide to not treat women very well.

I do realize that nothing can be rectified in time for the departure. That's a given. It would take us much longer than that to properly prepare an application anyway.

What I was considering, is going with her, and seeing if I can re-enter when we return, and then start our application.

Or.. going with her, but when I return, instead of me returning here, I could just fly back to the states and we could prepare the application and do it with me outland. I don't really have a home there anymore, but I'm sure I could make something work, it would just suck to be away from her for 18 months or however long. On the plus side, I'd have the right of appeal if something went wrong.

I've seen posts on this board (I've been reading it solidly all weekend) about people doing "outland" applications from inland. I'm not sure how that works. I know that I may have to go to an interview outland.. I don't think I'd have a problem leaving canada, the problem will probably be coming back. I'm sure they'll know when I last exited or entered the country. (probably better than I do, not even sure how I'd find those dates)

Other than my status in canada, Everything else, we have. We've been together a long time, and she seems a qualified sponser (no issues with criminal activity, bankruptcy, alimony, child support, welfare or anything like that).

I could, I suppose, let her go without me as well, and start working on the application from here, so we can submit it by the time she gets home in a couple of months.. but.. I'm quite worried about her traveling to that part of the world alone.

I know all of this should have been done long ago.. but.. it wasn't, and here we are. So, trying to figure out the best possible options.

 

[rhcohen2014]

I've seen posts on this board (I've been reading it solidly all weekend) about people doing "outland" applications from inland. I'm not sure how that works. I know that I may have to go to an interview outland.. I don't think I'd have a problem leaving canada, the problem will probably be coming back. I'm sure they'll know when I last exited or entered the country. (probably better than I do, not even sure how I'd find those dates)

outland applicants can submit the application while in canada as a visitor, then apply to extend their status as a visitor for 6 - 12 months or submit the applicaiton, then come to canada as a visitor, and extend the visit for 6 -12 months. This way an outland applicant can legally remain in canada as a visitor for the duration of the process. This works better for visa exempt applicants, such as US citizens.

I could, I suppose, let her go without me as well, and start working on the application from here, so we can submit it by the time she gets home in a couple of months.. but.. I'm quite worried about her traveling to that part of the world alone.

if you are that concerned about her safety, you both can go to where ever this assignment is and be there while the application is processing. if the sponsor is a canadian citizen, they do not need to be in canada while the application is processing, and neither do outland applicants. you might as well start it while you are there, so by the time the assignment is over, you can potentially return as a PR, or have an application in process.

 

[meyakanor]

outland applicants for the US are taking 8-10 months right now. US outland applications do NOT process in the same amount of time as applying inland. Outland takes considerably less time.

Oh wow, so the actual processing times are much faster than quoted times on CIC website? It said 15 months for CPC-Ottawa (where I'm assuming US citizens are sending their outland applications to). I know it doesn't mean average times, but I was pleasantly surprised to know that it, in real life, is quite a bit faster

Regarding the OP though, he does no longer have a legal status in Canada, so if he applies outland, then he would have to risk getting interviewed in States, at which point, he will most likely not be let in until after the sponsorship is finished and he gets his CoPR at hand. But if it's likely to get processed on just 8-10 months (not sure how his overstay status would affect the processing times), then it's probably much better to apply outland, while waiting in Canada. And his wife will only be assigned for 2-3 months, so I still think the best would be to apply outland while waiting Canada, and leave only if necessary (such as interview and stuff).

 

[Jhama]

outland applicants can submit the application while in canada as a visitor, then apply to extend their status as a visitor for 6 - 12 months or submit the applicaiton, then come to canada as a visitor, and extend the visit for 6 -12 months. This way an outland applicant can legally remain in canada as a visitor for the duration of the process. This works better for visa exempt applicants, such as US citizens.

I understand, thank you for explaning it. With me being out of status, the only way to legally do that would be for me to leave, and by some miracle be permitted back into the country on a visitor's visa, and then by some double miracle, have them allow me to extend it to a year. This seems to be an unlikely scenario in my case.

if you are that concerned about her safety, you both can go to where ever this assignment is and be there while the application is processing. if the sponsor is a canadian citizen, they do not need to be in canada while the application is processing, and neither do outland applicants. you might as well start it while you are there, so by the time the assignment is over, you can potentially return as a PR, or have an application in process.

The sponser is in fact a Canadian Citizen. I realize she won't need to be here while the application is processing. But.. if we're not home, and have no access to all our paperwork, pictures, documents and all the things I'll need to get ahold of (birth certs, police checks and all the other things), I'm not sure how we can start the paperwork from abroad.

It would be more than a challenge from where we'll be with little to no internet as well.

I don't want to rush the paperwork. We've been together a long time, and I don't think it would be hard to prove I've been here. My bank accounts (even my U.S. ones, all come to the address we live together at. I'm a U.S. Veteran, and all of my veteran mail comes here. I have christmas cards and letters and such from my family which have been delivered here.

It won't be hard to show we've been here together, but I'm worried I'll be basically sending them a note. "OH, by the way, here I am, and here's my signed, written confession of having been here all this time".

I want to become legal, and continue to live with my partner as I have been all these years, so I don't want to rush the paperwork and risk doing something wrong.

She (we?) leave on saturday, and there's just no way to get everything done and submitted by then.

I should probably get a lawyer, but I keep reading on these forums that it's not hard to do it yourself. In fact, everything to me seems perfect. She's a good sponser candidate, with no problems with the law, or welfare or anything like that. The only thing bothering us is my status and I don't want them to say "ah ha, we found you! now.. get out."

still trying to figure the best way to do things. perhaps go with her on the trip, and then, fly back to the states, and wait there for months, (basically homeless) while we get paperwork together and wait for an answer.

or stay here and work on the paperwork while she's gone and do it from inland. (but then I won't have the right of appeal, which.. seems like an important thing to give up? I don't mind the longer processing time.. I mean, I've been here a long time anyway. I'm not in a rush, I just want to be legal while we're doing it.

What does the 'right of appeal' mean, anyway. If I do it from inland, and they say no... does that mean it's done and over with, no chance to ever live legally with my partner in canada? If that's the case, it seems a huge risk (and all the more important to make sure I have the package well assembled so there's no doubt as to our relationship.

Once again, thank you all for your time and input. You can't imagine my state of panic right now. I don't want her to travel alone, but at the same time, I don't want to come back from the trip and be homeless, either.

 

[Jhama]

Regarding the OP though, he does no longer have a legal status in Canada, so if he applies outland, then he would have to risk getting interviewed in States, at which point, he will most likely not be let in until after the sponsorship is finished and he gets his CoPR at hand.

Is the interview you're talking about ... is this the interview they give you if they doubt the relationship? or are there other interviews?

If it's THAT interview.. that's usually near the end of the process, isn't it?

So if they call me in for an interview, could I not just go to it and wait in the US until they say ... "Welcome to Canada" (or.. however it works?)

But if it's likely to get processed on just 8-10 months (not sure how his overstay status would affect the processing times), then it's probably much better to apply outland, while waiting in Canada. And his wife will only be assigned for 2-3 months, so I still think the best would be to apply outland while waiting Canada, and leave only if necessary (such as interview and stuff).

I'm not sure yet on the difference in procedure between applying outland, or inland. Is it just a checkbox on a form, or different forms, or do I have to actually be somewhere different? and if I'm applying "outland" do I have to have an address from the states on the form?

Since I've been living in Canada, my address is here. Is it ok, or legal to put the canadian address on an 'outland' form?

 

[scylla]

I'm not sure yet on the difference in procedure between applying outland, or inland. Is it just a checkbox on a form, or different forms, or do I have to actually be somewhere different? and if I'm applying "outland" do I have to have an address from the states on the form?

Outland and Inland are two separate sets of application forms - make sure you use the right set depending on how you decide to apply.

Outland:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/fc.asp

Inland:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/spouse.asp

 

[Jhama]

Outland and Inland are two separate sets of application forms - make sure you use the right set depending on how you decide to apply.

Thank you Scylla. This is a very busy, very hectic week as I need to prepare to leave, as if I'm going with her, (shots, insurance, physical, etc) and at the same time, may end up not going at the last minute if we determine that my staying here would be in the best interest of my eventually completing the process successfully.

There seems to be a lot of chicken and egg... let's say I go with her on the trip. We come back from the trip, and instead of my coming back here (and risking being banned) I just fly back to the U.S. after out trip..

Now.. if we're applying as common law spouses it's saying.. .we have been living together. And, we have, for many years. But, if I'm then in the U.S. while we do this paperwork and gather all of our proper documentation to do an outland application, then.. we would be at that time separatated and not living together while this paperwork is going on... so, it seems contradictory.

In order to be legal I have to leave the country. But if I leave the country, we're no longer living together during that time. She'll be at our address here and I'll be ... I don't know where. Somewhere in the U.S. hopefully with a roof over my head.

 

[vaida]

Thank you Scylla. This is a very busy, very hectic week as I need to prepare to leave, as if I'm going with her, (shots, insurance, physical, etc) and at the same time, may end up not going at the last minute if we determine that my staying here would be in the best interest of my eventually completing the process successfully.

There seems to be a lot of chicken and egg... let's say I go with her on the trip. We come back from the trip, and instead of my coming back here (and risking being banned) I just fly back to the U.S. after out trip..

Now.. if we're applying as common law spouses it's saying.. .we have been living together. And, we have, for many years. But, if I'm then in the U.S. while we do this paperwork and gather all of our proper documentation to do an outland application, then.. we would be at that time separatated and not living together while this paperwork is going on... so, it seems contradictory.

In order to be legal I have to leave the country. But if I leave the country, we're no longer living together during that time. She'll be at our address here and I'll be ... I don't know where. Somewhere in the U.S. hopefully with a roof over my head.

I don't know if you're aware of the fact that CIC does not require to have a legal status while you apply for spousal/common law sponsorship. However it IS required to keep your legal status in Canada by CBSA. When you'll be back from the trip, u'll have to deal with CBSA and believe me, they are not giving candies to those who were overstaying, I have a feeling they would definitely send you back to the US. Especially if you still don't have your application submitted. Regarding to make the trip or not, I advise you not to make it. If you are use to live here without the status already, why don't you just apply inland right away and stay here while the process (I know, I know times are significantly shorter lalala), but to me it seems like you are tripping out about being apart from her and not living together. In this case just apply inland, let her go to the trip and wait for her in the country. It would just make your case more complicated if you try to enter Canada after you overstayed your visitor visa for so long. And if you apply outland and ask for a visitor visa, how can they be sure if you won't overstay again? But it's just my personal opinion, if I were in your shoes I wouldn't wanna draw more attention to myself than necessary. So it's up to you now

 

[Ponga]

I'll add my $0.02 to the list as well.

Since you are out of status, and cannot resolve that now without leaving Canada...you should not file an Outland application.

An Outland applicant has to maintain legal status in Canada (which you cannot), so you really only have 2 options:

1.
Apply Inland and hope that you are not removed, or deported before your application reaches the first stage of approval (AIP, or Approval In Principle). You should also submit an Open Work Permit (OWP) with your application because even though it will not magically restore your status, it will be a temporary immigration document (after AIP) that will help, but no resolve, your situation.

2.
Leave Canada and apply Outland, but the potential problem is that CBSA is now tracking those that exit Canada by land (part of a joint program with the US called `Beyond the Border'), so if they don't know that you've overstayed, they will know when you leave. Phase I and II of the program was the track third-country foreign nationals, while phase III was to include all travelers. This, in and of itself, could prevent you from re-entering Canada until you have your PR approved and have the CoPR document in hand.

There was an `Administrative Deferral of Removal' policy that was in place by CBSA where they would generally not enforce removal of an out of status person if they had submitted an Inland application. Unfortunately, that policy ended in November, 2011 so now...you do run the risk of being removed from Canada at any time.

Lastly, Are you absolutely certain that if you travel with her for her temporary assignment that you will be allowed to enter and remain in that country with her for the duration of her assignment? What if, they let you in but for whatever reason only authorize you a very short stay...say 2 weeks?!?! Then, you would have to leave that country and go where...back the the US?

As stressful as this must be, your best option may very well be to sit tight and start working on an Inland application ASAP.

 

[Jhama]

I don't know if you're aware of the fact that CIC does not require to have a legal status while you apply for spousal/common law sponsorship. However it IS required to keep your legal status in Canada by CBSA.

I am aware of the CIC position (and posted it in my original post), and now with the addition info provided by you, Ponga, and others, I am leaning toward not leaving, and just working on the application while my partner is away.
Thank you very much for your thoughts and advice.

2.
Leave Canada and apply Outland, but the potential problem is that CBSA is now tracking those that exit Canada by land (part of a joint program with the US called `Beyond the Border'), so if they don't know that you've overstayed, they will know when you leave.

If I leave with her, it will be by plane, not by land, but... I am aware that you're not leaving 'secretly' when you leave by plane, either. They know every passenger on board every plane coming or going, so yes.. if they don't know I'm here, they'd know when I leave that I have been.

Lastly, Are you absolutely certain that if you travel with her for her temporary assignment that you will be allowed to enter and remain in that country with her for the duration of her assignment? What if, they let you in but for whatever reason only authorize you a very short stay...say 2 weeks?!?! Then, you would have to leave that country and go where...back the the US?

As stressful as this must be, your best option may very well be to sit tight and start working on an Inland application ASAP.

Well, this is something I have to admit I didn't even think about. She's going there to work, I just assumed if I was with her they'd give me the same stay she has if I explained I was there because she didn't want to travel alone. But, I suppose, it's not outside the realm of possibility that it could happen to where they give me a lesser stay in which case, life would get miserable, quick, since I wouldn't be able to come back home.

I asked before, but no one has answered it yet. When I apply inland, there's no "right of appeal". I don't know what that means, exactly. Does it mean I'll never have a chance to live with my partner in Canada? ever? or does it mean I'd have to wait some time and resubmit everything again for consideration rather than working on the same file.. or.. does it mean something completely different?

I keep seeing differing opinions on the forum as to whether or not to use a lawyer. It seems the general consensus is.. "They can't offer you any guarantees, they can't speed up the process, they have no effect on the decision, they just give you the same forms to fill out, you still have to fill them out and send them to the lawyer.. so you're being charged for them to shuffle paperwork".

I suppose there may be times and cases where a good immigration lawyer would be advisable.

Do you think mine is one of those cases? and if so, can someone PM me the name of a good lawyer that they recommend? (I'm aware of the firm that runs this website, so with respect to them and the services and this forum they provide here, I think it would be respectful to send any other recommendations in a PM)