October 11th 2017 - Citizenship Applicants under 3/5 rule

[robreeves]

do you guys think that I should call and follow up or there is no point just wait???, I already another note(should come around aug 14)

for people looking at this post:
still waiting for DM since March 6 >> they told me waiting for bg check
APIT notes shows eveything is passed but security is blank

From what i can gather, its now down to the office you sat the test at to review your file and state that all the checks are now complete and satisfactory. I'm in the same boat as you only i passed my test a month later in Edmonton and had no DM even though my GCSM notes are clear.

The agent on the phone said that they would not get in contact with the office until after the 12 month period is up, then they would call the Edmonton office.

 

[TRUECANADAIN]

Done with test today. Please update tracker

Did the case office tell you when to expect oath for the citizenship?

 

[jeff.torbain]

I just got the CIT0520 in the mail. This was mailed after my application was "Suspended".
What does this mean? Am I out of suspension? Am I being investigated?
It asks for my proof of residence and employment.
Any help or insight is much appreciated.

 

[alijumani]

Did the case office tell you when to expect oath for the citizenship?

Yes, upon asking he told me you should expect an oath letter in mail within 4 months from today

 

[SunnyWays]

I am not an expert and I am not qualified to offer personal advice.

Moreover, as I responded in the other posts about suspended applications, I do not know how an applicant knows the application is suspended. I am not sure how this would show up in a typical GCMS report to clients. Official cases appear to involve many applicants who did not find out their application had been formally suspended until years after a Citizenship Officer had indeed formally decided to suspend the application pursuant to Section 13.1 in the Citizenship Act.

So I do not know what "ON HOLD" means in particular, and especially so in your specific case.

I believe there can be many reasons or circumstances in which an application is, in a sense, as a matter of practice, "on hold," waiting for someone to do this or that, or waiting for this or that to happen. Applicants who are, as they say, waiting for an updated clearance, for example, can sometimes wait quite awhile. That is NOT a suspended application. But whether or not the reference to "ON HOLD" in your case is a reference to having suspended the application, I do not know.

Actually you are the one who should have a good idea. Do you have a background which could explain security concerns? are there reasons for suspecting you are a member of an organized criminal entity? are you a PR-refugee who has obtained a home country passport or traveled to the home country? have you been reported for a breach of the PR Residency Obligation or are you the subject of an inadmissibility proceeding for serious criminality? is there a reason why you might be the subject of an investigation into immigration fraud? If you can confidently, soundly answer NO to all these questions, the odds are very good your application was NOT SUSPENDED pursuant to Section 13.1 in the Citizenship Act. But, rather, was on some sort of administrative hold waiting for this or that . . . to receive a response for an inter-agency inquiry perhaps, such as CBSA or CRA . . . or as previously noted, on hold waiting for an updated clearance from the RCMP or CSIS . . . way too many possibilities to enumerate even a representative sample.


IMPACT ON TIMELINE:

Assuming you applied AFTER October 10, 2017, there is NO REASON to expect progress on the application until later this year. Many of these applications are almost certainly NOT going to get through the process before early 2019. Lots and lots of impatience otherwise rampant in the forum. Floods of unrealistic expectations. As I have oft reminded: in ordinary times the ROUTINE applicant can anticipate reaching the oath in about TWO to THREE times as long as it takes the faster applications. Unfortunately many see the faster timelines and expect theirs should be on that track. Could be. If your application is good to go, next step could happen real soon, and the oath not much later. BUT for many more, it will be TWICE as long or THREE times as long.

But then these are not ordinary times. There was a huge surge of applications in October, November, and December. The surge may have continued, probably to a lesser degree, into this year. On top of that IRCC is a big bureaucracy and bureaucracies are not nimble in adopting and adapting to changes, and the reason for the late 2017 surge in application was major changes in the requirements. The fact that scores of applicants who filed since October 11, 2017 are likely to encounter not just the 12 month timeline for processing applications prior to the surge, but probably some additional time, SHOULD BE PATENTLY OBVIOUS. But posting in this forum suggests scores are oblivious to reality and riding hard fantastical expectations.

Which again is not to say you will have to wait long. I do not know. Forecasting the timeline for individual applicants is a fool's game. Things could happen real soon. Or not until significantly later in the year. A five year old's guess is as good as anyone's here.


Observations regarding GCMS notes:

Generally most ATIP generated copies of a GCMS report for clients are useless. Easily misunderstood. Rife with default codes or blank fields. Key information redacted. And even when there is actual information not otherwise deducible, that information is typically of little or no actual use. Even if it is somewhat interesting, there is rarely any action for an applicant to take based on the information.

Remember, in addition to knowing all the information submitted in the application, the applicant knows ALL the relevant facts, and with even a relatively cursory familiarity with the process should be able to predict the risk of problems and otherwise deduce where the application is at in the process at any given time . . . which, once the application is "IP," but not yet scheduled for the test, the application is almost always simply in a queue in the local office waiting for the assigned processing agent to take the next action, which is to review the application in preparation for and scheduling of the test and program integrity interview. After the test and interview, if the oath is not scheduled right away and eCas does not soon show Decision Made, there is NO great mystery: with exceptions (largely predictable exceptions) the application is again in a queue, probably waiting for the Citizenship Officer to review the application in conjunction with reviewing the processing agent's or interviewer's notes and observations, with perhaps some additional inquiry or two. For the vast majority of qualified applicants who have no reason to think they screwed up the application, there is NOTHING to worry about. For many this goes fast. For many more, not so fast. Nothing much (other than qualifying for urgent processing) an applicant can do to speed things up.

Generally NO ATIP necessary. Just patience.

Take your situation. So you learned in response to the ATIP your application was on hold. So what? Then you learned now its not, all is well to move on. Again, so what? Either way you are still waiting, and having just applied within the last nine or ten so months, and given the surge likely slowing things down, you may have to wait several more months . . . or things could happen real soon.

All ROUTINE qualified applicants really need to know is (1) when the application has AOR (this actually is not necessary, but almost everyone wants reassurance the application is on file and will be processed), (2) if it is necessary to provide any additional information or documents (so proper contact information is critical), (3) notice for when the test and interview are scheduled, and (4) notice for when and where to take the oath.

That is it. Really. Sure, those with non-routine applications have a wrinkle or so to wrangle with. But the vast majority can send in the application, watch for notices and respond accordingly, prepare for and show up for the test and interview, and then watch for notice of the oath and show up, raise your right hand, give allegiance to the Queen, and duly celebrate.

Or, if one prefers, hover over the computer daily checking eCas, spend hours on hold waiting to talk to call centre representatives, fret over how long it is taking for eCas to show IP, fret over whether the file actually is in the local office or not, fret over which local office is processing the application, work your ulcers hard agonizing over no notice for the test when someone else is already taking the test and they applied later, shoot of some ATIP requests, work the ulcers over some more trying to interpret the GCMS notes (which mostly simply state: yep, your application is in process).

Hopefully you will see the next step happen real soon. If not, odds are good all is well anyway and you will get notice of the next step in due course. Not to worry.

thank you for your reply, in my GCMS notes it was always mentioned SUSPENDED-INVESTIGATION and Application Status ON HOLD, but now that message is gone in the latest GCMS notes and it says Application Status OPEN, OK TO PROCEED WITH CITIZENSHIP APPLICATION, hope it does not get suspended again as I have no idea why it was suspended at the first place

 

[dpenabill]

thank you for your reply, in my GCMS notes it was always mentioned SUSPENDED-INVESTIGATION and Application Status ON HOLD, but now that message is gone in the latest GCMS notes and it says Application Status OPEN, OK TO PROCEED WITH CITIZENSHIP APPLICATION, hope it does not get suspended again as I have no idea why it was suspended at the first place

Actually, thank you for providing more detail. The report your GCMS notes explicitly indicated "SUSPENDED-INVESTIGATION" clarifies two significant things. One, generally, that the GCMS notes will show if an application is suspended. Secondly, for you individually, that in fact your application was suspended.

More importantly, this in conjunction with the notation indicating the reason for suspension is resolved and the application can proceed, illuminates that SUSPENDING PROCESS DOES NOT ALWAYS MEAN THERE WILL BE LENGTHY DELAYS. This is especially good to know. As I have previously observed, beyond what the statute and PDIs illuminate about suspending applications, the vast majority of what we know comes from information in officially reported decisions by the Federal Court, in which the duration of the suspension is typically YEARS and in some cases has been MANY YEARS. Prior to reports from you and @jeff.torbain, forum reports of suspended applications have been RARE. And, similar to your initial report, even when there have been reports they are typically light on this or that key detail (failing, for example, to clearly indicate the application has been suspended, and typically not illuminating much at all about why that might be).

This clarification from you should be seen as GOOD NEWS for @jeff.torbain, for example, since it at least indicates there is a fair chance the suspension will NOT too dramatically delay processing that application if, similarly, the reason for the suspension is one likely to have a prompt favourable disposition.

As I have previously observed, generally I am skeptical of applicants who protest they have no idea why there might be an INVESTIGATION of them, of a sort to cause suspending processing, since again the applicant is the one person in the world who actually KNOWS ALL THE RELEVANT FACTS. But, those who really do not have an idea why they have been referred for an investigation probably have the best odds there is no real problem and the investigation will be properly concluded, favourably, in a reasonable amount of time. So, for example, if @jeff.torbain likewise genuinely has no idea, no reason to apprehend why the application has been suspended, then the odds should be fairly good that the suspension will get resolved and the application back on track to be processed.

All of which is to say that your report and clarification is indeed important information and is appreciated. This is the kind of information which is helpful for those who potentially encounter real issues, delays, or other wrinkles in the process (in contrast to the constant stream of largely whimpering about it passing 150 days, 180 days, now its 200 days since IP, or since the test, which for the last eight or ten months has dominated the forum . . . sometimes it seems like there is a flood of fretful posts about the number of hours since IP and no confirmation the application is yet in the local office).


REASON FOR SUSPENDING THE APPLICATION:

Foremost, if you have no idea why your application was suspended, I certainly do NOT know. The potential reasons for suspending applications are, again, described at the website linked by @wvo2017:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/canadian-citizenship/admininistration/general-file-processing/procedure-suspending-applications.html
and in Section 13.1 in the Citizenship Act (see http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-29/page-5.html#h-7)

Again, I am generally skeptical of applicants who protest they have no idea why there might be an INVESTIGATION of them, of a sort to cause suspending processing, since again the applicant is the one person in the world who actually KNOWS ALL THE RELEVANT FACTS.

That said, there is an important corollary of this: for the applicant who knowing all the relevant facts, and objectively evaluating the facts, and then who is genuinely confident he or she can discern NO reason why they might be subject to an investigation or proceeding of the sort described in the PDI about suspending applications (or as I have described in a bit more detail), the odds should be GOOD there really is NO REASON to worry. And now your report illuminates that not only should there be little or no reason to worry about a negative outcome, there is hope the delay will not be particularly lengthy (many in this forum probably think a five month delay is lengthy, but in the scheme of processing citizenship applications they need to get real and recognize how weighty the grant of citizenship is and that in Canada, unlike buying citizenship in a country like Antigua, the government takes its time).

This fits into what I have admonished again and again in this forum: the QUALIFIED applicant who submits a properly completed, accurate application, who knows of NO reason there should be any concerns about them, CAN RELAX, NOT WORRY, diligently watch for communications or notices from IRCC, play tennis, golf, or video games, knit or whittle, sit on a dock and watch the water flow . . . notice to attend test and interview will come in due course (be that three or four months after applying, or for many others eight or ten months after applying). No need to worry. No need to make call centre or ATIP queries. No need to fret about how many weeks or months pass between AOR and IP, or IP and the test, or the test and the oath. Watch for notices and respond accordingly.

You would be in the exact same stage of processing today if you never made an ATIP request. Good to go. On track. Next step maybe next week. Or maybe in October or November. Actual timeline cannot be forecast, but all should be well and your application on its way to the next step.

Now, in your particular circumstances, even though the ATIP requests were of little use to you personally, it is GOOD that you made ATIP requests. The forum has learned some useful information from your accounts of what your GCMS notes reflected. Did not help you personally. Perhaps caused some unnecessary anxiety along the way. But for our general understanding of NON-routine processing, the information you obtained has illuminated aspects which can be helpful for others. Especially illuminating that even if the application is suspended, that there is a fair chance the issue will be resolved and the application will proceed well within the ordinary timeline (as yours has).

 

[dpenabill]

A little more about potential reasons why the application was suspended:

There are way, way too many possibilities to begin enumerating illustrative examples. For the applicant who legitimately does not know why they or their application might be subject to an investigation, of the sort described in the PDI or the statute (both linked above), the applicant does not even know what sort of investigation it is let alone what in particular has triggered it. (Some reasons can be eliminated. If the applicant is not a PR-refugee, the applicant knows it is not about investigating potential grounds for cessation of protected person status. The applicant would know for sure if he or she was the subject of a Removal Order, and if not, that can be eliminated.)

I can suggest certain selective possibilities, but in an actual case the reason is what it is and again there are way too many to try enumerating illustrative examples.

One of the more obvious ones is some past connection or association with someone else or some entity which has been caught up in a fraud investigation. For example, the totally innocent client of a consultant who has been discovered to be involved in fraud, such as fraud involving other individuals totally unrelated to the innocent client, is at high risk of becoming the subject of an investigation for fraud. Particularly so if the consultant was identified as involved in a broad scheme of immigration fraud. The innocent client, whose connection to the consultant may have been brief and a long while ago, and the innocent client totally unaware that consultant was involved or investigated for fraud. So CBSA or the RCMP conduct the investigation in a timely manner, confirm the innocent client was not involved in fraud, and so the referral for investigation results in a disposition which, in turn, results in an entry in GCMS akin to Application Status OPEN, OK TO PROCEED WITH CITIZENSHIP APPLICATION.

Or perhaps one of the applicant's listed employers has been involved in immigration fraud in the past, for whom there is a red flag in GCMS, leading to an investigation which should be readily and favourably resolved if the applicant himself or herself is legitimate and not involved in any fraud.

Or the trigger could be a trumped-up hot line tip or poison-pen letter from a disgruntled and vengeful former lover, landlord, boss, partner, colleague, neighbour . . . CBSA or RCMP do the investigation, confirm the negative tip is bogus, all is well.

The list of potential triggering events is long. The key is, IF the applicant genuinely, carefully, objectively considers all the known facts against possible reasons for falling under one of the described grounds to suspend the application, and truly knows of no such reason, ODDs are very good that (1) there will be no suspending of the application, but (2) even if there is, it should NOT be anything to worry about.

(As I have mentioned before, the caveat is that, for whatever reason, even those who know or should easily know of a reason, they typically protest to know of no reason. This applies to just about any cause for non-routine processing. The more common non-routine diversion is the Presence-case, applicants subjected to RQ, either the full blown RQ (CIT 0171), or RQ-lite (CIT 0520). Same thing though: the applicant is the one person who knows all the relevant facts. If after careful, objective consideration the applicant knows of no reason to question his or her presence, there should be NOTHING to worry about.)

 

[carf430]

Please update spreadsheet.

1. Application received on October 27, 2017.
2. AOR on March 3, 2018.
3. IP on on April 17, 2018.
4. We sent you correspondence on May 28, 2018.
5. Test Invite on August 15, 2018.

Vancouver

 

[rajmalhotra7]

Please update spreadsheet.

1. Application received on October 27, 2017.
2. AOR on March 3, 2018.
3. IP on on April 17, 2018.
4. We sent you correspondence on May 28, 2018.
5. Test Invite on August 15, 2018.

Vancouver

Updated. Congrats!!

 

[phlove]

what is best site for test practise ????
Thanks in adv

 

[xxpazaway]

Thank God for the blessing. Finally, My Oath Invite from Hamilton Office came today July 23, 2018 for August 21, 2018 at 9:10am.

 

[qjzhou]

Thank God for the blessing. Finally, My Oath Invite from Hamilton Office came today July 23, 2018 for August 21, 2018 at 9:10am.

Congrats! Updated.

 

[kushari]

Got the Oath Invite today via email. August 16th 2018. Please Update the spreadsheet.

 

[razerblade]

Got the Oath Invite today via email. August 16th 2018. Please Update the spreadsheet.

Congrats! Updated the sheet

 

[kushari]

what is best site for test practise ????
Thanks in adv

Use the Discover Canada PDF. I've found that lots of the sites might not have some of the info from the actual test.