NOC 4012 Research Assistant

[Encore]

I think we need to know the definition of the full time student. Does a full time student only take courses ? for example, if I am a PhD student for three years and I took all the courses in the first year (i.e. if this definition is correct , then it means the later two years I am working as RA and TA without taking any courses). Additionally, in this case, I should claim the RA experience and I should not mark the "were you studying full-time during the job" checkbox and you will be eligible for CEC or FSW. The other definition is: you are a full time student as long as you are working as RA and/or TA and did not been graduated yet. Then, in this case you can claiming RA or TA will not provide any points. I am really confused between the two definitions.

The challenge is that CIC distinguishes between study and work permit and technically, students have their primary responsibility as study. So, I think that is why they dont count work done while studying. But if you are working as a TA/RA, and you are enrolled in a university, it may be difficult to claim you were not studying full time because International students are expevted to be studying full time all through the year (except in Spring/Summer for some schools). And as for the definition of full or part time study, I think that is defined by the institutions. So, even if you are in class only 1hr a week, and your and your school considers that as full time, then its full time.

This is my take on the whole issue, its based on my engagement with the issue and I cannot quote any sources. Its just logic and reasoning. I may be wrong and I honestly hope I am wrong. I wish TA/RA positions give some points.

 

[ScarletSails]

So here is my situation:

I received a BSc from the University of Calgary in Canada in summer 2013. I have been a MSc student at the same university since then for the past 2.5 years. I have been doing TA and RA all this time. I have a letter from my supervisor saying that I did my RA and TA exactly as was mentioned based on NOC 4012. I have been receiving funding for my research and TA for all this time. Also it is good to mention that I received my PGWP on July 2013 so currently I am holding a valid PG work permit and study permit.

I just created a dummy EE profile just to see how EE likes my RA/TA work experience as my main NOC type. I input the following in my profile:

WORK HISTORY
- Title: Graduate Research and Teaching Assistant
- NOC 4012
- Job: full time 40 hrs/week , current job
- Were you working legally: Yes
- Were you studying full-time during the job: Yes
- Which one of the categories AmirHNK's job fall under: No work permit required

EDUCATION HISTORY
- BSc received in summer 2013
- Currently doing MSc since fall 2013, current standing: Not Completed

After I submitted my EE, I received an overall score of 434 and I was eligible for both CEC and FSW.

Why am I interested in this? because currently I have another EE profile. I have put my internship work experience I gained in Canada as my main 1 year work experience while indicating that I was not studying full time( because I did not take any courses during that period). My EE profile gave me a score of 409 and counted me eligible for FSW. Based on that I applied to OINP in December 2015.

I really need to know if I am truly eligible for EE otherwise I will just be wasting my time and money for immigration at this point.


P.S. you might find the following links useful:

- http://quic.queensu.ca/news/express-entry-information-from-citizenship-and-immigration-canada/
- http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=855&t=6

Hi AmirHNK,

Do you actually work 40 hours/week as an RA/TA? Do you have any contract/ document from your Department/University that proves you work 40 hours/week?

 

[AmirHNK]

Hi AmirHNK,

Do you actually work 40 hours/week as an RA/TA? Do you have any contract/ document from your Department/University that proves you work 40 hours/week?

I have my TA contracts from the department. I also have a letter from my supervisor indicating that I work 40hrs a week on TA/RA stuff abd making around $20,000/yr (salary + scholarship) since 2013 and have been meeting all the criteria for NOC 4012. The problem is CIC used to accept this kind of work for immigration but now anything that is done during a study permit is not considered legitimate work.

And just to give you an update on my previous post, I tried to add my TA/RA work experience on my EE profile again but now I get a "profile not eligible" response. They have updated their system so if you mention that you were studying at the time of work, the work will not be counted at all. It is a shame because I have friends who they applied and received their immigration with just having RA/TA work during their masters/PhD studies but that was a few years ago.

 

[drajay]

So most of us applying with TA/RA experience is a full-time student. Does that mean that this work isn't counted as work experience?

Why does CIC say then cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=855&top=6 that "You may be able to count experience as a teaching, research or lab assistant at a post-secondary educational institution, (see National Occupation Classification 4012) toward the work experience requirement, depending on the eligibility criteria of the programs."

 

[YehiaZ]

So most of us applying with TA/RA experience is a full-time student. Does that mean that this work isn't counted as work experience?

Why does CIC say then cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=855&top=6 that "You may be able to count experience as a teaching, research or lab assistant at a post-secondary educational institution, (see National Occupation Classification 4012) toward the work experience requirement, depending on the eligibility criteria of the programs."

I think they mean that TA/RA experience will qualify you for FSW, but it will not increase your points (even if you have foreign experience).

 

[kateg]

I think they mean that TA/RA experience will qualify you for FSW, but it will not increase your points (even if you have foreign experience).

It will increase your FSW points, if it was paid. It will not count towards the one year qualification for CEC.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=855&top=6

They do this for a very simple reason - a study permit is not a work permit. To get the PGWP (which gets you experience), one must graduate. If students could simply work part-time and have it count, there would no longer be a reason to graduate. You could work part time while taking classes for two years, and have a year of experience. You would then qualify for CEC, without ever needing to be a genuine student.

 

[ashishapar007]

Hello. I am just wondering if there is any update on this topic. I have a masters degree for which I was getting stipend and was at title of graduate research assistant. I have a letter stating all the things. In october 2016 I will also have one year of canadian experience on work permit.

Do we get points for work experience as TA/RA under FSW. If someone has sucessfully cleared this thing, please reply.

 

[indyeah]

I have finished my PhD from India and I want to apply for Express Entry (EE). My query is: Can I show my TA/ RA (NOC 4012) work as work experience if I have a letter from my Professor which states that I have worked for 3 years (20 hours per week = 2 years of full time work) and the work was paid.

Since my PhD is not from Canada and thus I am curious to know if this can be used as work experience. There are many threads on this topic but I have seen the responses which say that if the TA/ RA work is paid then it can be considered (need to validate).

Please reply with context of the EE in today's terms.

Secondly, I have 2 years of work-ex in the IT domain (NOC 2171). Can I club both the work (NOC 2171 + NOC 4012) and show my work-ex as 4 years?

 

[ecekid]

Hey guys,
Has anyone succeeded with NOC 4012? I got my MS in 2011 in the US then I continued PhD in the US from 2011 to Dec 2015 and started working as a professional in March 2016.
I applied for EE in FSW with NOC 4012 from my 5 year PhD 20 hours/week. (My professional experience isn't enough to qualify for 1 full year experience). After I submitted EE, it said Profile ineligible.
Has anyone succeeded with NOC 4012 from a foreign country? What should I do in my case? Should I wait until March 2017 to submit new NOC (engineer) when I have one full year professional experience?
In fact, I always had summer internships working as full time professional and they accumulated to one full year but I guess FSW doesn't count discontinuous experience.

Thanks

 

[applefun]

Let's make it much more simple:

If applefun does not have work permit, if applefun is doing his/her RA/TA based on a study permit, s/he will not qualify for CEC for his/her RA/TA, no matter it is paid/ unpaid- do you agree?

If applefun has any foreign experience (at least 1 year according to CIC definition), s/he will qualify for FSW. Make sense?

By the way, my wife completed her 2 years of PhD and in her 3rd year She also has her profile open with 401 points and eligible only for FSW, not CEC. She is paid RA/TA, receiving T4, filing tax every year.

When you will try to show your RA/TA experience as work experience, system asks if you have a valid work permit. But a RA/TA does not have that. EE does not give any points for RA/TA if it is based on study permit and will make your profile ineligible if you don't have any foreign experience.

Hope it will help applefun. But applefun, you can sure try to open a profile with your RA/TA experience. there is no harm. But remember one thing, your university will never be able to issue you the employment reference letter stating your exact work hours. i am telling all these based on our experience.

There is one type of RA who comes to Canada based on work permit under some university collaboration project. In that case only, you can show you experience under NOC 4012 as work experience.

There was a different stream for international PhD students before 1st January, 2015. CIC has discontinued that special program. We applied last year under that category but we were late by 7 days. They have returned all application reached there after 1st December 2014 as the CAP of 500 applicants was reached.

What do you mean 1 year of "foreign work experience"? Work experience in another country outside Canada? I am paid by my supervisor, and on study permit.

 

[jilaniroy]

Hello seniors,
Can work experience earned during bachelors degree be used for FSW stream? Does it fall under NOC 4012?

Thanks

 

[yukiyuki111]

Hey guys, want to share some of my own experience,
I graduated as master students in 2015, started working on PGWP since 2015-07. before that, my only work experience is RA, and I put it into my application as a work experience. I got ITA on 2016-12-22, and AOR 2017-02-02. I landed yesterday, and become a PR now.
Some thoughts on my own experience. I do claimed the point by click the box this job needs a work permits( please don't judge, two of my friends did the same way prior to me, and they got approved for claiming that points. so I did the same way). My points was 496, and the cut line for that draw was 475, if my work experience were not been counted, my points will be 468.
I did attached a LOE indicate my RA is job and the only thing I need to registered as a fulltime student is to keep my job and finish the research project. It was a paid job, and I also did a one-year paid intern in my master program with another agency.
On my GCMS NOTES i ordered last months, I am qualified both for FSW and CEC.
Actually if you asked me whether I suggest people to do as the same way, my answer is negative. It is really risky to do so, the waiting period for PPR is killing me, but at the time when I got invite, I have no choice. I didn't know the points will dramasticlly down as low as 415 for last draw. If I was patient enough, and wait maybe another one or two draw, I wouldn't been suffered that much. the whole year of 2016 the points are really impossible for people like me with no other experience to apply. it was almost above 500 before they adding the Canadian education points(at that points I was only 466). And my work place need me to have a PR as soon as possible to issue me the indeterminent job. everything counts together, I choose to take the risk.
my suggestion is if you can wait, maybe wait until you fully qualified, or technically qualified for the application. If you have no other choice, maybe it worth to take the risk.
Good luck!

 

[san9090]

Hi AmirHNK,

Do you actually work 40 hours/week as an RA/TA? Do you have any contract/ document from your Department/University that proves you work 40 hours/week?

I have my TA contracts from the department. I also have a letter from my supervisor indicating that I work 40hrs a week on TA/RA stuff abd making around $20,000/yr (salary + scholarship) since 2013 and have been meeting all the criteria for NOC 4012. The problem is CIC used to accept this kind of work for immigration but now anything that is done during a study permit is not considered legitimate work.

And just to give you an update on my previous post, I tried to add my TA/RA work experience on my EE profile again but now I get a "profile not eligible" response. They have updated their system so if you mention that you were studying at the time of work, the work will not be counted at all. It is a shame because I have friends who they applied and received their immigration with just having RA/TA work during their masters/PhD studies but that was a few years ago.

Hi, I just read your post of how you were eligible for FSW. I am currently doing my PHD and I do have a letter that says that I worked 40/week. for 3 years.
But I submitted my profile twice and received non eligible and I didn't meet FSW criteria.
I have done the language test, and meet all the requirements I have two degrees from Canada. I am just wondering if ther eis something I am missing.

 

[AmirHNK]

Hi, I just read your post of how you were eligible for FSW. I am currently doing my PHD and I do have a letter that says that I worked 40/week. for 3 years.
But I submitted my profile twice and received non eligible and I didn't meet FSW criteria.
I have done the language test, and meet all the requirements I have two degrees from Canada. I am just wondering if ther eis something I am missing.

I did not use my RA/TA toward FSW requirements.
You will have to gain work experience after studies if you are in Canada, or outside university while studying outside Canada to be eligible for FSW or CIC.

 

[san9090]

So RA work will not count as experience ?
I read on the website that FSW requirement:

• in the same type of job as your primary NOC

• within the last 10 years

• paid work (volunteer work, unpaid internships don’t count)

• at skill type 0, or skill levels A or B of the 2011 National Occupational Classification (NOC)

• at least 1 year (1,560 hours total / 30 hours per week), continuous:
  • full-time at 1 job: 30 hours/week for 12 months = 1 year full time (1,560 hours)

Wouldn't RA fall under that ?