New Citizenship Bill Thursday Feb 6th

[marcus66502]

This law is in its proposal state and still need to pass,

I'm very well aware of that fact. I was just trying to answer your question about how they can ignore pre-PR time. All it takes is the passage of an amendment. It's really not that difficult.

That being said, I'm in agreement with you that this proposed bill will pass with almost no modifications. I just don't see too much opposition to this because Canadian citizenship requirements are literally the easiest in the developed world as far as I've researched and this bill just brings them more in line with other countries. In addition, from what I've read, I get a sense that there's been too much abuse of the current Citizenship Act and Canadians are getting tired of that. I'm certain that the the provisions that concern you and me the most (ignoring pre-PR time and lengthening the required residence) will pass.

The only question I have, which is really hard to answer, is whether the opposition in parliament will delay the passage long enough for me to be able to apply under the current act before the new act takes effect. I will be eligible to mail the application on June 2 of next year. If the last citizenship bill is any indication, there is some room for hope but I'm cutting it close and may just run out of luck. The last bill C-37 was introduced December 10, 2007, passed on April 17, 2008 and took effect exactly a year later, April 17, 2009. So we're talking one year and four months from introduction to coming into force. Assuming the same timeline for this bill, it would come into force June 6, 2015, four days after I'd be eligible to apply. Of course assuming the same timeline is a big assumption. These guys could ram the bill through much sooner.

I read the bill and the section about coming into force is actually interesting. They want certain sections to come into force FIRST, before the rest of the bill. These are sections that give the minister the power to do a few things unilaterally, like for example declare applications abandoned and close the file if an applicant has not responded to requests for information by CIC. This makes sense because there are way too many of these cases that are weighing down on the system. So there's some hope that the Governor-in-Council might delay the implementation of the rest of the bill for a few months, maybe even a full year, while these few provisions are in effect first. Fingers crossed!

 

[MasterGeek]

I can understand the need to increase residency requirements. The developped countries that have the lowest citizenship requirements will be mass targeted by those merely seeking a passport of convenience.

So it's kinda a race between countries to harden their citizenship requirements in order to not be the weak one targeted by passport of convenience seekers.

Now Canada is at the same level of citizenship requirements as Australia. Does this mean future passport of convenience seekes will now choose Australia due to its better weather compared to Canada ?


They should still count pre-PR days !

 

[Canadian2007]

one difference though AUS still counts pre-pr or no pr days as long as you resides legally for 4 years in AUS. Out of the 4 years only 1 year must be a resident as PR. Its actually much easier than Canada. Here is the link http://www.citizenship.gov.au/learn/law-and-policy/legis_changes/res_req_changes/
And AUS has all automated system for tracking the days for a PR or legal VISA holders so that you dont have to provide 1000 pages of RQ document to prove your residency, we are in 2014 not in 1914.

 

[harry_aussie]

I can understand the need to increase residency requirements. The developped countries that have the lowest citizenship requirements will be mass targeted by those merely seeking a passport of convenience.

So it's kinda a race between countries to harden their citizenship requirements in order to not be the weak one targeted by passport of convenience seekers.

Now Canada is at the same level of citizenship requirements as Australia. Does this mean future passport of convenience seekes will now choose Australia due to its better weather compared to Canada ?


They should still count pre-PR days !

There is a big difference between Australian and Canadian Citizenship residency requirements.

1. Australia requires 4 years of physical residency to be eligible to apply for Citizenship. Out of these 4 years one year must be spent as a permanent resident and remaining 3 years can be on any temporary visa.

2. Currently Canada only acknowledges 1 pre PR year towards Citizenship, irrespective of the number of years spent prior to PR. With the passage of this senseless clause, no credit will be given for living in Canada, which in itself nullifies the intent of that clause.

 

[harry_aussie]

And AUS has all automated system for tracking the days for a PR or legal VISA holders so that you dont have to provide 1000 pages of RQ document to prove your residency, we are in 2014 not in 1914.

Haha this is a good one and so true. It took only few minutes for DIBP to tell me all my days of absence and presence in Australia and also the tentative date of eligibility for Citizenship. Quick and easy, need some lessons Canada ?.

 

[farrous13]

I would have been an Aussie in 2010. Loool. Canada Canada Canada (shaking my head)

Haha this is a good one and so true. It took only few minutes for DIBP to tell me all my days of absence and presence in Australia and also the tentative date of eligibility for Citizenship. Quick and easy, need some lessons Canada ?.

 

[YorkFactory]

Haha this is a good one and so true. It took only few minutes for DIBP to tell me all my days of absence and presence in Australia and also the tentative date of eligibility for Citizenship. Quick and easy, need some lessons Canada ?.

Australia is an island and has immigration exit checks. Neither of these is true of Canada.

 

[on-hold]

Since Canada apart from the United States Canada has no land borders . . . and Canada has access to U.S. border information . . . and flight manifests . . . there is no practical difference between it and Australia.

 

[vic48912]

I'm very well aware of that fact. I was just trying to answer your question about how they can ignore pre-PR time. All it takes is the passage of an amendment. It's really not that difficult.

That being said, I'm in agreement with you that this proposed bill will pass with almost no modifications. I just don't see too much opposition to this because Canadian citizenship requirements are literally the easiest in the developed world as far as I've researched and this bill just brings them more in line with other countries. In addition, from what I've read, I get a sense that there's been too much abuse of the current Citizenship Act and Canadians are getting tired of that. I'm certain that the the provisions that concern you and me the most (ignoring pre-PR time and lengthening the required residence) will pass.

The only question I have, which is really hard to answer, is whether the opposition in parliament will delay the passage long enough for me to be able to apply under the current act before the new act takes effect. I will be eligible to mail the application on June 2 of next year. If the last citizenship bill is any indication, there is some room for hope but I'm cutting it close and may just run out of luck. The last bill C-37 was introduced December 10, 2007, passed on April 17, 2008 and took effect exactly a year later, April 17, 2009. So we're talking one year and four months from introduction to coming into force. Assuming the same timeline for this bill, it would come into force June 6, 2015, four days before I'd be eligible to apply. Of course assuming the same timeline is a big assumption. These guys could ram the bill through much sooner.

I read the bill and the section about coming into force is actually interesting. They want certain sections to come into force FIRST, before the rest of the bill. These are sections that give the minister the power to do a few things unilaterally, like for example declare applications abandoned and close the file if an applicant has not responded to requests for information by CIC. This makes sense because there are way too many of these cases that are weighing down on the system. So there's some hope that the Governor-in-Council might delay the implementation of the rest of the bill for a few months, maybe even a full year, while these few provisions are in effect first. Fingers crossed!

I always tell folks that this bill will be rammed through parliament going by how the recently introduced "fair election reform act" is going through parliament with the speed of light.....Tory party killed debate in HoC to move that bill to committee stage as the Tory party is not interested in debating the flawed part of the bill..you should know by now that the last bill modifying the citizenship act during Jason Kenney era took that long because it was a coalition government, Harper didn't have majority then and he also prorogued parliament for a month sensing he was going to Lose vote of no confidence with his omnibus budget bill, Harper had a lot on his plate then.... Now it's different as Tory have majority, my sense is that common sense will prevail in amending some of the draconian part of the bill because an identical private member bill introduced by Calgary NE MP Davinder Shory striping naturalized Canadian of their citizenship for whatever reason didn't wash with members of senate and that bill was killed......exact same same wording of that bill is incorporated within this bill...Polarizing partisanship is even at its lowest now in the senate because of the ongoing senate expense scandal, some senators are now trying to be more assertive.....to cut long story short, my assumption is that the bill will not pass senate as it his, but will be amended....., how far the modification will go is anyone guess....HoC will pass anything as the opposition are too scared to go against the kind of common sense measure that will tackle citizenship fraud prevalent in Europe (not North America!!).

 

[torontosm]

I always tell folks that this bill will be rammed through parliament going by how the recently introduced "fair election reform act" is going through parliament with the speed of light.....

We can all hope!

 

[scylla]

The last bill C-37 was introduced December 10, 2007, passed on April 17, 2008 and took effect exactly a year later, April 17, 2009. So we're talking one year and four months from introduction to coming into force. Assuming the same timeline for this bill, it would come into force June 6, 2015.

The last bill unfortunately isn't a good barometer for how long it will take this time. We had a minority government when C-37 was passed. We have a majority government today. It's much much easier to push bills through with a majority government since the majority party's votes alone are enough to get the bill passed.

 

[marcus66502]

The last bill unfortunately isn't a good barometer for how long it will take this time. We had a minority government when C-37 was passed. We have a majority government today. It's much much easier to push bills through with a majority government since the majority party's votes alone are enough to get the bill passed.

Well, if you re-read the part of my last post that you quoted in your post, you'll notice that what accounts for most of the one-year-and-four-months time from introduction to coming into force of the last Bill C-37 is the one year period from final passage to the coming into force (April 17, 2008 to April 17, 2009). The date of coming into force is set by the Governor-in-Council AFTER the bill has been passed. The Parliament itself plays very little role in it except for making a recommendation. The government is usually given a transition period like this in order to prepare for the implementation of any newly passed law.

So really, assuming that the same transitional period of one year is granted again this time by the Governor-in-Council, we only need Parliament to take four months to pass the bill in order to achieve a delay period of a year and four months like last time. I can't imagine that legislators have nothing on their plate other than this bill, so four months for passage is not a big stretch when you get down to it. The bill still has two more readings to go through in the Senate, then it must go to the House of Commons where it may be sent to a committee for analysis. After the House of Commons, it goes back to the Senate for a final vote. There could be disagreements between the House and Senate versions in which case the two chambers would have to iron out the differences in conference. Blah Blah Blah ....

There are a million road bumps in this. It's one of those things that could go either way: it could be delayed forever, or it could be passed with lightning speed and it all depends on the inclinations of the members of the two chambers. Hard to predict, really.

 

[vic48912]

I'm very well aware of that fact. I was just trying to answer your question about how they can ignore pre-PR time. All it takes is the passage of an amendment. It's really not that difficult.

That being said, I'm in agreement with you that this proposed bill will pass with almost no modifications. I just don't see too much opposition to this because Canadian citizenship requirements are literally the easiest in the developed world as far as I've researched and this bill just brings them more in line with other countries. In addition, from what I've read, I get a sense that there's been too much abuse of the current Citizenship Act and Canadians are getting tired of that. I'm certain that the the provisions that concern you and me the most (ignoring pre-PR time and lengthening the required residence) will pass.

The only question I have, which is really hard to answer, is whether the opposition in parliament will delay the passage long enough for me to be able to apply under the current act before the new act takes effect. I will be eligible to mail the application on June 2 of next year. If the last citizenship bill is any indication, there is some room for hope but I'm cutting it close and may just run out of luck. The last bill C-37 was introduced December 10, 2007, passed on April 17, 2008 and took effect exactly a year later, April 17, 2009. So we're talking one year and four months from introduction to coming into force. Assuming the same timeline for this bill, it would come into force June 6, 2015, four days after I'd be eligible to apply. Of course assuming the same timeline is a big assumption. These guys could ram the bill through much sooner.

I read the bill and the section about coming into force is actually interesting. They want certain sections to come into force FIRST, before the rest of the bill. These are sections that give the minister the power to do a few things unilaterally, like for example declare applications abandoned and close the file if an applicant has not responded to requests for information by CIC. This makes sense because there are way too many of these cases that are weighing down on the system. So there's some hope that the Governor-in-Council might delay the implementation of the rest of the bill for a few months, maybe even a full year, while these few provisions are in effect first. Fingers crossed!

Even if the bill pass House of Commons un amended, it still have to go through senate which is the house of second thought, they have shown their independent streak before ......body language of the opposition party in the house of common by watching the debate on tv does not show they have the stomach to fight this bill knowing this is the kind of divisive debate Harper Conservative party is good at?? Justine Trudeau the heir apparent to Harper is more engaged in legalization of weed.....NDP the far left official opposition party as usual will just be a spectator

 

[vic48912]

There is a big difference between Australian and Canadian Citizenship residency requirements.

1. Australia requires 4 years of physical residency to be eligible to apply for Citizenship. Out of these 4 years one year must be spent as a permanent resident and remaining 3 years can be on any temporary visa.

2. Currently Canada only acknowledges 1 pre PR year towards Citizenship, irrespective of the number of years spent prior to PR. With the passage of this senseless clause, no credit will be given for living in Canada, which in itself nullifies the intent of that clause.

Australia unofficial immigration policy is white only immigration policy as Australia is close to Asia. Even those in the right and left wing of Australian political spectrum have accepted this model, you can't differentiate their political ideology.....When other countries start using Australia example in formulating their immigration policy, you should be aware of the euphemism!

 

[Beakster]

This makes me very sad. My complaint is with the amendment which says:

has, since becoming a permanent resident,
(i) been physically present in Canada for at least 1,460 days during the six years immediately before the date of his or her application,

As stated above, this means none of our time spent legally in Canada will be recognised. I've been here since 2009 and it took Immigration Quebec and CIC 3 years to process my application. Had it been done in 1 year as I expected then I would have been eligible by now, but as it is with this new bill it will be adding years onto what I feel is an already unfair amount of time to wait.

I outlined the issues with the current Citizenship Act here: http://citizenshipact.ca/ and the new one has the same failings by not recognising time spent in Canada before PR. To summarise:

Someone comes to Canada marries a Citizen and though sponsorship gets PR in 6 months, then under modified Act, 4 years later they are eligible, waiting time in Canada = 4.5 years.

Someone comes to Canada on a temporary work permit, works/studies for X years before submitting a PR application. PR processing time in my case was 3 years, 4 years later I'm eligile to apply for Citizenship. Waiting time to be eligible under new Act = X + 7 years.

Unfair because the whole idea of the waiting period before you can apply is to become "Canadianized", a process which does not happen any faster after you are given a PR card.

If they just remove the "since becoming a permanent resident" then I will happily accept all other changes they are trying to make.