Moving to the US after applying for citizenship

[Traveler74]

Thanks for the information Leon and EasyRider

Just to clarify, as of now I am living in my address in Canada and that is what I put as my home address, but for mailing purpose I used my friends address because I will be leaving Canada shortly. I am not lying about anything and I can prove that have been living here for the past 3 years, with things like income taxes , bank statements, job letters and etc...

My question is:

Is it necessary to tell them that I will be leaving the country and what would they do with that information?

Reason why I have to leave Canada now.

I was previously sponsored spouses and I am now getting re-married in my home country but I cannot sponsor my fiancé to come here until that I have completed five years of becoming a permanent resident due to a new immigration law in affect March 2, 2012. Unfortunately this was my only option in order for me and my partner to be together.

Do you think I should tell CIC the reason why I am leaving?

 

[Leon]

I think you should tell them your real address and that they can still use your friends address as a mailing address. I think you should tell them you are leaving Canada temporarily because of family reasons and will return within 2 years. This is all true. You are not lying about anything.

 

[akka]

Thanks Easyreider!

So when our citizenship application is in progress , can't we apply our PR extension while citizenship application continues?
We already fulfilled 3 years and for PR 2 out of 5?

 

[Leon]

Thanks Easyreider!

So when our citizenship application is in progress , can't we apply our PR extension while citizenship application continues?
We already fulfilled 3 years and for PR 2 out of 5?

Yes, if you land as a PR, stay 3 years, apply for citizenship and then leave, by the time your PR card expires, you have stayed 3 out of 5 years and can apply to renew. However, it can be a problem if you are outside Canada. Your application must originate in Canada but if you are lucky, they will mail you the renewed card.

However, just because you have a new card does not mean you are ok for the next 5 years. You have to stay 2/5 years for any rolling 5 year period. That means, if you were already outside Canada for 2 years by the time you applied to renew your PR card, you have one more year you can stay outside and then you must return for 2 years if you want to continue to meet the residency obligation. If you have a valid PR card, you will usually be allowed to enter Canada but if for any reason immigration decided to look into if you meet the residency requirements for PR, for example because you are trying to get citizenship, they may find out that you do not meet the PR residency requirements any more and you could lose your PR and your citizenship application.

You would also be examined if something happened to your new PR card, lost etc. and you end up having to apply for a travel document in order to return. If at that point, you are a PR for more than 5 years and out of the past 5 years, you have less than 2 in Canada, you would be denied the travel document and lose your PR.

However, this is only a problem if your citizenship application takes more than 3 years to process because by that time, you are at the limit you are allowed to be outside Canada as a PR. Max. 3 years outside but then 2 years inside.

 

[EasyRider]

As Leon said, you have to have 2 years in total inside in the 5 last years at any moment not to be subject to lose status. PR card expiration date doesn't matter.

CIC can delay application beyond 3 years with ease, if they want, by imposing RQ and further by requiring CJ hearing, especially when processing time for routine application is already 21 months and, likely, this figure will grow again by next year to complete 2 years, for example. And they'll likely to delay it because you'll be among few applicants who explicitly left Canada after applying.

 

[ajslp]

Hi All

I am in similar boat. I have already completed 1095 days.y wife and son will be completing it on Nov 17th.
My home here has a closing date of Oct 30th.I will be updating my adress on October 31st to my friends address.
I am not sure but I feel if I change my address before it may not be treated my primary residence and might subject to capitol gains.
Am I correct in thinking that?

So I want to send my application on October 31st.
Also I have another question : My wife's passport expiring on Jan 2013. So is it good idea to update passport before applying citizenship?
I can do that no problems but at the same time we have US immigration and changing passport may not sound a good idea while entry at the border ,thoug we got green cards now ,not sure.. so can we update passport info later for Canada immigration?Will that be a concern if its issued from US(Indian consulate) or I am not sure if passport is needed at all in application

Appreciate repsonse!!

Under current scenario and sensitivity with Canadian passport of convenience, if I were in your shoes and if I really really wanted a Canadian citizenship, I would stay in Canada at least until I acquire a Canadian citizenship. But if I had to move to USA for a job and was settling there, I would pick USA and acquire American citizenship. If in future, if I had to move to Canada for jobs or something, I would again have an opportunity to get Canadian citizenship. It was easy in the past. But nowadays CIC is very sensitive about people acquiring passport of convenience by fulfilling minimum 3 years residency requirement.

That's my personal opinion. You are free to do what you feel is right for you.

There are just too many red flags; US green card, selling house after completing 3 years requirement and moving to US. If I remember correctly from your earlier post, you were in US before moving to Canada. I would say the odds are 99% that you will get an RQ. It is going to be difficult to convince CJ of your intention. You seem to have a stronger connection to USA than Canada. And it might end up more than 3 years and you will be forced to move back to Canada to maintain PR status.

 

[akka]

Hmmm that is discouraging as I diligently worked for it, honestly completed my time. Even my wife rejected job offer in US to complete time here. I know many people who simply cheated the system.

I guess all I can do is try , by all genuine ways!

Thanks all for your help!

 

[ajslp]

Hmmm that is discouraging as I diligently worked for it, honestly completed my time. Even my wife rejected job offer in US to complete time here. I know many people who simply cheated the system.

I guess all I can do is try , by all genuine ways!

Thanks all for your help!

I understand. As you mentioned, a lot of people has exploited the system. Now CIC is forced to make it hard for everyone. But still 3 years is way shorter than 5 or 10 or even 15 years required for other countries. Even with 21 months application duration, it is still less than 5 years.

I am sure sooner or later Canada is also going to change the requirement to 5 years. Since Canada does not have a compulsory taxation policy regardless of residence like USA does, there are many people who are using Canadian passport just for backup or as a passport of convenience. Of course there are exceptions who have a genuine case of requirement to leave for few years. But they always have a chance to apply again when they are permanently residing in Canada.

Absolutely try. But make sure everything you enter is correct. The worst thing that can happen to you is CIC will reject your application. But you can still try in future if you move back to Canada or apply in US. Since CIC has started revoking already issued citizenship, any false information can be a ground for revocation any time in the future. Revoking citizenship was almost unheard of before unless there was major major fraud. I think there were only some 60 or 70 revocation cases in the history before 2009. But CIC is currently processing some 5000+ cases for revocation.

 

[Leon]

Hmmm that is discouraging as I diligently worked for it, honestly completed my time. Even my wife rejected job offer in US to complete time here. I know many people who simply cheated the system.

I guess all I can do is try , by all genuine ways!

Thanks all for your help!

Oh, now you make it sound like you endured a great hardship to have to live in Canada for 3 years to qualify for citizenship However, you do qualify to legally, there is not much immigration can do except maybe try to delay.

Personally, I think immigration should be honest about the way they feel. If they feel that too many people are just barely completing 3 years and then leaving and they do not feel that those people should get citizenship, they should simply change the rules and make it harder to qualify.

 

[EasyRider]

I am sure sooner or later Canada is also going to change the requirement to 5 years. Since Canada does not have a compulsory taxation policy regardless of residence like USA does, there are many people who are using Canadian passport just for backup or as a passport of convenience. Of course there are exceptions who have a genuine case of requirement to leave for few years. But they always have a chance to apply again when they are permanently residing in Canada.

"Passport of convenience" is a b.s. theory. In reality, you cannot do much with a passport outside-- you lose all benefits:
- you're not qualified for free healthcare
- you're not qualified to receive employment insurance outside of Canada
- I'm not sure if you're qualified for pension from outside of Canada, but the pension would be a joke if you haven't lived in Canada for a long time
And still all the major useless abusers are currently living INSIDE Canada, sitting on welfare and/or some other types of govt. assistance or scam is some ghetto.

Issues like Lebanon evacuation in 2006 was a screw up by the Canadian government completely, and it's not going to repeat failures like this anymore because, normally, country is not supposed to provide assistance to dual-citizens in their other country of citizenship, only in third countries. Canadian government was rightfully publicly criticized for that multiple times.

So, I don't think government is concerned about "abuse" from those who leave as in reality there's no any, rather it's simply jealous because Canadian passport puts a person on a world map, gives access to the world and makes one competitive. It's jealousy to the smart and capable.

 

[rajmalhotra7]

"Passport of convenience" is a b.s. theory. In reality, you cannot do much with a passport outside-- you lose all benefits:
- you're not qualified for free healthcare
- you're not qualified to receive employment insurance outside of Canada
- I'm not sure if you're qualified for pension from outside of Canada, but the pension would be a joke if you haven't lived in Canada for a long time
And still all the major useless abusers are currently living INSIDE Canada, sitting on welfare and/or some other types of govt. assistance or scam is some ghetto.

Issues like Lebanon evacuation in 2006 was a screw up by the Canadian government completely, and it's not going to repeat failures like this anymore because, normally, country is not supposed to provide assistance to dual-citizens in their other country of citizenship, only in third countries. Canadian government was rightfully publicly criticized for that multiple times.

So, I don't think government is concerned about "abuse" from those who leave as in reality there's no any, rather it's simply jealous because Canadian passport puts a person on a world map, gives access to the world and makes one competitive. It's jealousy to the smart and capable.

I have read each and every word of your above text. You have contradicted yourself.

In one line you have said "Passport of convenience is a b.s. theory." and in another line you have said "because Canadian passport puts a person on a world map, gives access to the world and makes one competitive."

How Canadian passport puts you on world map? If yes, people use Canadian passport as convenience to be on world map. If No, then people put themselves on world map through their skills and experience and get a job.

How Canadian passport makes you competitive? If yes, people use Canadian passport as convenience to be competitive. If No, your competitiveness is through your skills and experience.

Then you mentioned that "It's jealousy to the smart and capable." If someone is smart and capable, he/she does not need Canadian passport to prove his/her smartness and/or capability.

To answer your question on pension, one has to live in Canada for at least 10 years after the age of 18. If someone is born in Canada and lives in Canada for 17 years and then leaves and come back at the age of 65, he/she is ineligible for Canadian Pension.

Well, you mentioned your viewpoint and I mentioned mine. Now, Government does not make policies based on any individual's viewpoint. They have to look at broader picture. First of all, any Government does not want its citizens to be living and working abroad, but live in their country of citizenship and paying taxes. At the same time they do not want to restrict any citizen from going abroad to live. We are in a democracy. Right?

If Government sees that a lot of Canadian Citizens live abroad right after getting their citizenships, Government has a right to investigate and tighten their laws on citizenship. Remember Canadian Citizenship is not a right of an immigrant, but a grant. What if a lot of Canadian Citizens leave Canada, who is going to live and work here? Government will have a shortfall in taxes that in turn will leave rest of Canadians in even higher taxes. Immigration numbers will rise. Government will need more immigrants per year to make up for the shortfall in workforce.

You and I are sitting in Canada and debating about it because almost 7 million Canadian working people will retire (baby boomers) from workforce between 2012 and 2030. Otherwise, why Canada would have been opened doors to immigration. Government makes policies for future analyzing current and past trends.

Who is going to get Canadian immigration or Canadian Citizenship, if they declare in application that they want to be in Canada for few years and then leave with Canadian Passport to be on world map, access the world, and be competitive like you mentioned in your comments above.

 

[polarbear]

I am sure sooner or later Canada is also going to change the requirement to 5 years.

 

[polarbear]

ajsil:

Even if Canada raises the residency requirements to 5 years i believe they cannot do it overnight.

Citizenship laws first has to pass through the parliment,then cabinet and senate has to approve it and it should get a royal assesment.

Its a long process, it will take 12 to 18 months atleast ...

 

[ajslp]

ajsil:

Even if Canada raises the residency requirements to 5 years i believe they cannot do it in an night.

Citizenship laws first has to pass through the parliment,then cabinet and senate has to approve it and it should get a royal assesment.

Its a long process, it will take 12 to 18 months atleast ...

I did not mean they will change the law overnight. I meant it will go through parliament as you specified. My point is it will be increased at some point. Canada is probably the only country or one of the few countries which allows citizenship after 3 years. There are exceptions like in USA if you are married to a US citizen.

 

[ajslp]

"Passport of convenience" is a b.s. theory. In reality, you cannot do much with a passport outside-- you lose all benefits:

How is it not a passport of convenience as one person is not a resident of Canada and not paying any taxes to Canada but
- that person can use the visa free travel throughout the world that Canadian government have negotiated.
- that person can use Canadian citizenship status to gain better employment in some countries in middle east.
- that person can return to Canada anytime he/she wishes to.
- that person can return to Canada and get access to medical care after 3 months if he/she gets some diseases which can be expensive like cancers.
- that person can sponsor his children and grand children and get access to Canadian Universities.

The list goes on. @rajmalhotra7 has mentioned few points too.

The goal of allowing an immigrant to become a citizen is that there is a hope that person resides in the country, contributes to the economy/society, pays taxes among other things. Like some member already mentioned if only a small percentage of people use Canadian citizenship as a stop gap solution or as a backup scenario or ticket to move on to USA or other countries, CIC is not going to bother. But if they see it is becoming a major trend, they will reevaluate the system and make changes.

And addressing @EasyRider's concern, if a major percentage of people abuse the social security system and it starts affecting Canadian welfare system, I am sure government will address it. You can suggest your ideas and opinions on how to improve the system to the right agencies.

And look from another angle. Let's say, a first generation immigrant abuses social welfare payment. But if his family stays in Canada, his kids will grow up with a Canadian education. I am sure he/she won't be just satisfied with that small allowance offered by social welfare. He/she can go to Universities, get degree and get a better job. Then he/she will be contributing to the Canadian society and economy. But if a person leaves Canada, how is Canada going to benefit from that. That person will only return to Canada if his/her situation gets bad and Canada has to support him/her.