lets write to minister internatinal students

[torontosm]

Do you understand why immigration is important to Canada? what is your population? 35 million? that is the population of California. The country has crazy amount of resources and GDP and can really compete to be top 5. The lack of population is hurting it. That is one primary reason why it needs immigration.

It's not a lack of overall population that is "hurting" Canada, it's a lack of the right immigrants. This whole revamp is supposed to address that. Just granting PR to every student doesn't do anything to help the country over the long run.

Those who think the education industry is going to do fine are stupid period. International students who come to the country to learn and settle are arguably the best form of immigration. The country gets new skilled labour trained in the country's own standards. Now in a perfect world every student will enter a reputed university and pass out but unfortunately the world isn't perfect and there will be some students who will take the cheapest course possible.

Based on your comments, I think you are stupid period. If you read through the posts on this forum, particularly in the student section, you will see that every second post is from someone seeking to find the cheapest possible education option simply to try and get PR. Such people are not adding any value to Canada, as once they get their worthless diploma or degree, they won't actually get a job that contributes to society. This program is weeding such people out. If you can find a job that is needed in Canada, and you can compete effectively against others already in Canada, then you are welcome to stay. What's unfair about that?

And to the locals who cry that the foreigners take their jobs; I am sorry to say this but you are stupid. No in all honesty; what do you expect? A company will take you over a qualified individual just because you were born here? How is that profitable to the company? If you are using an iphone over a BlackBerry then you have no *censored word*ing right to say that. You will choose what is best for you; same is with any profitable company. If a foreign student has better grades than you, then tough luck.

I'm a local and I haven't lost my job to any student yet. And, yes, the government's role is ENTIRELY to look after the welfare of its citizens. If that means closing off immigration so that the unemployment rate of its own nationals decreases, so be it. Every other country in the world does it, so why not Canada?

I didn't get my job handed to me because I was an international student; I got a job in spite of being an international student. If you as a local, whos gotten canadian education since birth have lost a job opportunity to a foreigner who doesn't speak the language as good as you then you are stupid. Learn to progress and compete.

Again, you should probably stop calling others stupid and take a minute to look in the mirror.

 

[dukhi]

It's not a lack of overall population that is "hurting" Canada, it's a lack of the right immigrants. This whole revamp is supposed to address that. Just granting PR to every student doesn't do anything to help the country over the long run.

Based on your comments, I think you are stupid period. If you read through the posts on this forum, particularly in the student section, you will see that every second post is from someone seeking to find the cheapest possible education option simply to try and get PR. Such people are not adding any value to Canada, as once they get their worthless diploma or degree, they won't actually get a job that contributes to society. This program is weeding such people out. If you can find a job that is needed in Canada, and you can compete effectively against others already in Canada, then you are welcome to stay. What's unfair about that?

I'm a local and I haven't lost my job to any student yet. And, yes, the government's role is ENTIRELY to look after the welfare of its citizens. If that means closing off immigration so that the unemployment rate of its own nationals decreases, so be it. Every other country in the world does it, so why not Canada?

Again, you should probably stop calling others stupid and take a minute to look in the mirror.

But what about the students who did the right things...completed a degree in a reputed Canadian university, struggled for the job and than rightly got a job in a top firm in noc a occupation and has been living well , paying all the taxes etc ??

 

[EEKnowledge]

It's not a lack of overall population that is "hurting" Canada, it's a lack of the right immigrants. This whole revamp is supposed to address that. Just granting PR to every student doesn't do anything to help the country over the long run.

Based on your comments, I think you are stupid period. If you read through the posts on this forum, particularly in the student section, you will see that every second post is from someone seeking to find the cheapest possible education option simply to try and get PR. Such people are not adding any value to Canada, as once they get their worthless diploma or degree, they won't actually get a job that contributes to society. This program is weeding such people out. If you can find a job that is needed in Canada, and you can compete effectively against others already in Canada, then you are welcome to stay. What's unfair about that?

I'm a local and I haven't lost my job to any student yet. And, yes, the government's role is ENTIRELY to look after the welfare of its citizens. If that means closing off immigration so that the unemployment rate of its own nationals decreases, so be it. Every other country in the world does it, so why not Canada?

Again, you should probably stop calling others stupid and take a minute to look in the mirror.

What a contrarian view, just for the sake of it, and qualified with all the buzzwords "right" ""worthless"; as if your bubble lets you decide, without any data to back up, what job is right for individuals or Canada.

On topic, the petition is badly written. I would rather not write to immigration minister because based on this; maybe he will cut the immigration quotas. I don't know what purpose do IELTS/CELPIP serve.

 

[the_lion]

It's not a lack of overall population that is "hurting" Canada, it's a lack of the right immigrants. This whole revamp is supposed to address that. Just granting PR to every student doesn't do anything to help the country over the long run.
Based on your comments, I think you are stupid period. If you read through the posts on this forum, particularly in the student section, you will see that every second post is from someone seeking to find the cheapest possible education option simply to try and get PR. Such people are not adding any value to Canada, as once they get their worthless diploma or degree, they won't actually get a job that contributes to society. This program is weeding such people out. If you can find a job that is needed in Canada, and you can compete effectively against others already in Canada, then you are welcome to stay. What's unfair about that?

I Agree! trash immigration is going to hurt any country. And thats why the discussion should based on not how to stop immigration or raise our voices against EE. But to stir choices of "RIGHT immigration" in the Right way! Thru that petition we do not want every student to have 'Right of Immigration'. We want the right ones to be allowed to stay, integrate, function and together grow the Canadian Economy to the best of what the world has ever seen.
EE would deem a PhD Physicist without an LMIA much lower than a cook with an LMIA which is totally based on ESDC's lookout. Now, whre is that intelligent Govt. who thinks PhD's are worthless as compared to pantry cooks ?


I'm a local and I haven't lost my job to any student yet. And, yes, the government's role is ENTIRELY to look after the welfare of its citizens. If that means closing off immigration so that the unemployment rate of its own nationals decreases, so be it. Every other country in the world does it, so why not Canada?

I totally agree to that point as well! But what if having those immigrants actually boost up the Economy? Annual Immigration levels are passed by the parliamentary bill in November each year. [ Being a BILL, its open to the parliament for discussion by your nominated MPs and then given to the CIC]. I'm pretty sure they wont do anything that will jeopardize their govt. in the next 5 yrs.!

Again, you should probably stop calling others stupid and take a minute to look in the mirror.

I have nothing to say about that!

 

[the_lion]

I'm aligned with the opinion of EEKnowledge that Let's not write anything to the Immigration Minister without revising that petition to a great extent.
Look at the Notice Canadian Bar education has sent to CIC. So well Documentted! well supported with ref. and facts! Lets do something like that!

Even if the minister doubts the efficiency of PGWP holders, after the petition he'd be left with no doubts!
lolzzz...

 

[praneet87]

It's not a lack of overall population that is "hurting" Canada, it's a lack of the right immigrants. This whole revamp is supposed to address that. Just granting PR to every student doesn't do anything to help the country over the long run.

Based on your comments, I think you are stupid period. If you read through the posts on this forum, particularly in the student section, you will see that every second post is from someone seeking to find the cheapest possible education option simply to try and get PR. Such people are not adding any value to Canada, as once they get their worthless diploma or degree, they won't actually get a job that contributes to society. This program is weeding such people out. If you can find a job that is needed in Canada, and you can compete effectively against others already in Canada, then you are welcome to stay. What's unfair about that?

I'm a local and I haven't lost my job to any student yet. And, yes, the government's role is ENTIRELY to look after the welfare of its citizens. If that means closing off immigration so that the unemployment rate of its own nationals decreases, so be it. Every other country in the world does it, so why not Canada?

Again, you should probably stop calling others stupid and take a minute to look in the mirror.

Again - what is more beneficial to the country? giving a semi - qualified local a job over an immigrant who deserves it? an immigrant who is in the country by following rules.

And about calling people stupid. I am a PGWP worker on a website called canadavisa.com trying to find information about a new immigration program and you are a ¨local¨ here trying to drown people's spirit. Who here is stupid?

This program doesn't do what you are saying it does. All it does is give people with LMIA jobs a precedence. That is all. That in no way translates to quality picking.

 

[mf4361]

Again - what is more beneficial to the country? giving a semi - qualified local a job over an immigrant who deserves it? an immigrant who is in the country by following rules.

As weird as it sound, that's the direction this government is going: Businesses should hire Canadian/PR over foreigners, even if the latter is more suitable and appropriate.

It's election year, you know. And look at how bad Harper's reputation on Canadian economy is. Just pick a news on CTV, CBC, Global, etc and look at the comment section.

 

[curious_123]

It's not a lack of overall population that is "hurting" Canada, it's a lack of the right immigrants. This whole revamp is supposed to address that. Just granting PR to every student doesn't do anything to help the country over the long run.
Based on your comments, I think you are stupid period. If you read through the posts on this forum, particularly in the student section, you will see that every second post is from someone seeking to find the cheapest possible education option simply to try and get PR. Such people are not adding any value to Canada, as once they get their worthless diploma or degree, they won't actually get a job that contributes to society. This program is weeding such people out. If you can find a job that is needed in Canada, and you can compete effectively against others already in Canada, then you are welcome to stay. What's unfair about that?

I Agree! trash immigration is going to hurt any country. And thats why the discussion should based on not how to stop immigration or raise our voices against EE. But to stir choices of "RIGHT immigration" in the Right way! Thru that petition we do not want every student to have 'Right of Immigration'. We want the right ones to be allowed to stay, integrate, function and together grow the Canadian Economy to the best of what the world has ever seen.
EE would deem a PhD Physicist without an LMIA much lower than a cook with an LMIA which is totally based on ESDC's lookout. Now, whre is that intelligent Govt. who thinks PhD's are worthless as compared to pantry cooks ?


I'm a local and I haven't lost my job to any student yet. And, yes, the government's role is ENTIRELY to look after the welfare of its citizens. If that means closing off immigration so that the unemployment rate of its own nationals decreases, so be it. Every other country in the world does it, so why not Canada?

I totally agree to that point as well! But what if having those immigrants actually boost up the Economy? Annual Immigration levels are passed by the parliamentary bill in November each year. [ Being a BILL, its open to the parliament for discussion by your nominated MPs and then given to the CIC]. I'm pretty sure they wont do anything that will jeopardize their govt. in the next 5 yrs.!

Again, you should probably stop calling others stupid and take a minute to look in the mirror.

I have nothing to say about that!

No one asking every student to give 600 points.... We are askin skilled people who have full time job offer under pgwp to give these 600 points.... There are several people under pgwp who does not have jobs....

 

[torontosm]

Again - what is more beneficial to the country? giving a semi - qualified local a job over an immigrant who deserves it? an immigrant who is in the country by following rules.

And about calling people stupid. I am a PGWP worker on a website called canadavisa.com trying to find information about a new immigration program and you are a ¨local¨ here trying to drown people's spirit. Who here is stupid?

This program doesn't do what you are saying it does. All it does is give people with LMIA jobs a precedence. That is all. That in no way translates to quality picking.

Let's see....providing a local with a job allows Canada to better train their population, increase the domestic skill sets, contribute to the economy and keep citizens happy. Providing the same job to a foreigner means no net gain in income (i.e., taxes), but more expenses as the local will file for some sort of benefits from the government, the cost of social services (healthcare, education, etc.) will double as taxpayers must support both the local and the foreigner, etc. So you tell me which one is more beneficial to the country.

As for the stupid, you were the one who repeatedly blasted everyone except yourself as being stupid.

with regard to the LMIA, doesn't the program exactly allow employers to choose the employees that best meet their needs? If they can't find a suitable local, then they can recruit from abroad. What's so wrong with that? If you are truly the right candidate, then you will get a LMIA. As for employers who don't provide LMIA's, they obviously feel that they can find suitable talent locally. I don't see what the issue is.

 

[torontosm]

As weird as it sound, that's the direction this government is going: Businesses should hire Canadian/PR over foreigners, even if the latter is more suitable and appropriate.

Businesses should ABSOLUTELY hire locals over foreigners. Every country in the world has similar policies. Go and try to get a work permit in the US or the UK and you will face the exact same issue. Go to the Middle East and they have set quotas for locals that need to be filled before any foreigners can be hired. Go to Asia and the same applies. Why do you think Canada should be different?

 

[praneet87]

Let's see....providing a local with a job allows Canada to better train their population, increase the domestic skill sets, contribute to the economy and keep citizens happy. Providing the same job to a foreigner means no net gain in income (i.e., taxes), but more expenses as the local will file for some sort of benefits from the government, the cost of social services (healthcare, education, etc.) will double as taxpayers must support both the local and the foreigner, etc. So you tell me which one is more beneficial to the country.

As for the stupid, you were the one who repeatedly blasted everyone except yourself as being stupid.

with regard to the LMIA, doesn't the program exactly allow employers to choose the employees that best meet their needs? If they can't find a suitable local, then they can recruit from abroad. What's so wrong with that? If you are truly the right candidate, then you will get a LMIA. As for employers who don't provide LMIA's, they obviously feel that they can find suitable talent locally. I don't see what the issue is.

First of all this local v/s immigrant debate is futile. I already have a job. I am not fighting for a job. I want residency. Thats the issue of debate here. Now you say that providing the same job to a foreigner results in no income gained. Seriously? How does that affect the government in any which way? What makes you think that I don't pay taxes? Really? if that was the case then I don't want PR, please give me my tax-free salary. I will keep extending my permit.

LMIA is a good thing agreed. It just lets companies recruit people from outside of the country for jobs that can't be filled. But us PGWP workers are different. We already have that job. We have been working in Canada for a year. In your words, the local already has lost a job to us. We want to be part of this country. That is all. How is that hard to understand?

 

[torontosm]

First of all this local v/s immigrant debate is futile. I already have a job. I am not fighting for a job. I want residency. Thats the issue of debate here. Now you say that providing the same job to a foreigner results in no income gained. Seriously? How does that affect the government in any which way? What makes you think that I don't pay taxes? Really? if that was the case then I don't want PR, please give me my tax-free salary. I will keep extending my permit.

LMIA is a good thing agreed. It just lets companies recruit people from outside of the country for jobs that can't be filled. But us PGWP workers are different. We already have that job. We have been working in Canada for a year. In your words, the local already has lost a job to us. We want to be part of this country. That is all. How is that hard to understand?

What I meant is that you pay the exact same taxes as a Canadian would if he had your job. the only difference is the cost to taxpayers is 2x as much.

As for wanting to be part of the country, that is awesome. And you still have that opportunity under EE, it's just not as "automatic" as it used to be.

that said, I agree that this argument is futile and we should return to the original topic of the thread. I hope things work out and you get your PR.

 

[gss89x]

While I understand that is must suck for many people here on student visas that would like to stay and what I am going to say may sound harsh but it is the truth.

I am a born Canadian and even though for personal reasons (wanting my boyfriend here) I partly wish it was easier to immigrate. As a Canadian I am sick of seeing people buy there way into Canada (by going to school here) and take jobs from Canadians by playing the system. Even in this petition its states that foreign student had to compete for the jobs they have. The problem is that they compete against Canadians and get them over people already having PR or citizenship. As a Canadian this is complete garbage and not fair to us. So excuse me if I don't really care if its not "fair" to people who came here to study and work and now they have to prove that by staying here they won't take jobs from us.

Another point in this petition was that students are young and healthy so they are not a drain on Canada. However what is happening in many cases one person in a family is sent to school in Canada to basically buy PR then after that the person with PR starts sponsoring family members. Many times these family members do not have any special skills and just end up taking more jobs. Many will sponsor their parents that in a few years will start need health care (that they never paid into). This is very damaging to Canada.

I would also say that if this petition got any kind of recognition it could hurt many immigrants as it comes of as feeling entitled. Reading it made me angry (and not in favour of making it easier for students) I was angry at how entitled and selfish it came off. I am a person who understand how immigration is important to Canada and that it is needed for the economy. I also understand the wrong kind of immigration will and has hurt Canada. Immigration that takes jobs from Canadians hurts us.

You need to think again, why don't you think the other way, if we are taking jobs from you , why do they let us come in? Why don't you ask this to Canadian Immigration
why do we pay four times the tuition fee than what you pay?. Do you really think you are more intelligent than CIC's top embers who decide everything? You can't even dream to think in the prospective they think, they look at all factors like economy, how many people they can afford etc etc. So stop thinking what people used to think 10 years ago. This is 2015, we are here legally so you can't question about anything. I am just assuming, but there are many Canadian kids like you, whose parents came to Canada as an immigrant , took somebody's job to grow them up ( just in context to what you said). This is a system, and you would have to live in it. Do not worry they are accepting more applications, there are more jobs available, good luck all immigrants.

 

[victorxman182]

Hi guys, I'm also a PGWP holder but I don't support the petition.

Seriously I think some people fail to grasp the very basic principles of immigration. a Canadian should always have preference over an immigrant. This means that only when there are no Canadians for a Job then an immigrant can take the position.

How do you prove that? With a LMIA. That's why people with LMIA have guaranteed invitation. That is fair. If you have been working under a PGWP that doesn't prove that there are no Canadians qualified to do your job. Maybe your company didn't tried enough to hire a Canadian, or they are paying you below market rate. If your company is not even willing to consider a LMIA for you, then what does it say? It clearly says that they can find a Canadian to do the job. The fact that you paid tuition or taxes doesn't matter. The government will prefer to receive those taxes from the Canadian in the job that from you.

Level of education does not relate to skill shortage. There are a lot of Canadians with bachelors, masters, phd's that cannot find a job. On the other hand there are some trade occupations that have shortages, such as plumbers, drillers, machinery operators. That is the reality of today's world. Maybe that's why the PhD stream was eliminated.

CIC is already giving advantage to people with Canadian work experience. We receive more points that overseas applicants. Still people with LMIA should have preference. They proved that they are needed in Canada.

In my opinion a lot of people were abusing the CEC system to immigrate to Canada. Look at the study permit forum. It's full of people looking for easy and cheap courses what will grant them a 2yr PGWP. They end up with a "Hospitality Management" diploma from "Blackwater College". Is that a qualification in shortage? No! Those types of "degree mill" colleges are businesses looking for profit. If people are willing to pay 3x tuition then better for them. They are not the goverment.

CIC is closing the loophole on that. Last year they increased the restrictions on the Study Visa and now with EE. Look at other countries. Most of them don't grant PGWP. The UK cancelled their PGWP program in 2012. I expect to see a more restrictive PGWP for Canada in the future.

When I look at the petition I feel like it will generate resentment from the general population and will affect negatively their opinion of international students. The petition is written with entitlement. It says that you deserve PR because you are already here working. Well, what if that job could have been filled by a Canadian?

 

[torontosm]

Hi guys, I'm also a PGWP holder but I don't support the petition.

Seriously I think some people fail to grasp the very basic principles of immigration. a Canadian should always have preference over an immigrant. This means that only when there are no Canadians for a Job then an immigrant can take the position.

How do you prove that? With a LMIA. That's why people with LMIA have guaranteed invitation. That is fair. If you have been working under a PGWP that doesn't prove that there are no Canadians qualified to do your job. Maybe your company didn't tried enough to hire a Canadian, or they are paying you below market rate. If your company is not even willing to consider a LMIA for you, then what does it say? It clearly says that they can find a Canadian to do the job. The fact that you paid tuition or taxes doesn't matter. The government will prefer to receive those taxes from the Canadian in the job that from you.

Level of education does not relate to skill shortage. There are a lot of Canadians with bachelors, masters, phd's that cannot find a job. On the other hand there are some trade occupations that have shortages, such as plumbers, drillers, machinery operators. That is the reality of today's world. Maybe that's why the PhD stream was eliminated.

CIC is already giving advantage to people with Canadian work experience. We receive more points that overseas applicants. Still people with LMIA should have preference. They proved that they are needed in Canada.

In my opinion a lot of people were abusing the CEC system to immigrate to Canada. Look at the study permit forum. It's full of people looking for easy and cheap courses what will grant them a 2yr PGWP. They end up with a "Hospitality Management" diploma from "Blackwater College". Is that a qualification in shortage? No! Those types of "degree mill" colleges are businesses looking for profit. If people are willing to pay 3x tuition then better for them. They are not the goverment.

CIC is closing the loophole on that. Last year they increased the restrictions on the Study Visa and now with EE. Look at other countries. Most of them don't grant PGWP. The UK cancelled their PGWP program in 2012. I expect to see a more restrictive PGWP for Canada in the future.

When I look at the petition I feel like it will generate resentment from the general population and will affect negatively their opinion of international students. The petition is written with entitlement. It says that you deserve PR because you are already here working. Well, what if that job could have been filled by a Canadian?

Very well said indeed. +1!