lets write to minister internatinal students

[Conor9900]

Ha ha what's with all the servility! A Canadian isn't better than you just because they happened to be born in a rich first world country. A person who works hard and contributes to society should legitimately be able to move and work wherever they want in the world, and in doing so they should be able to place reliance on rules in place by bureaucratic governmental bodies such as CIC without having these rules change suddenly after they've invested time and effort in achieving residency in that country. Have some self respect, you have a right to be angry at the lack of transparency and sudden changing of the rules by CIC. As for Torontosm, from your contributions here it's difficult to see any other reason why you're on this site other than to gloat

 

[victorxman182]

Ha ha what's with all the servility! A Canadian isn't better than you just because they happened to be born in a rich first world country. A person who works hard and contributes to society should legitimately be able to move and work wherever they want in the world, and in doing so they should be able to place reliance on rules in place by bureaucratic governmental bodies such as CIC without having these rules change suddenly after they've invested time and effort in achieving residency in that country. Have some self respect, you have a right to be angry at the lack of transparency and sudden changing of the rules by CIC. As for Torontosm, from your contributions here it's difficult to see any other reason why you're on this site other than to gloat

So countries should not have borders. That's your argument? Good look with that.

 

[gss89x]

Hi guys, I'm also a PGWP holder but I don't support the petition.

Seriously I think some people fail to grasp the very basic principles of immigration. a Canadian should always have preference over an immigrant. This means that only when there are no Canadians for a Job then an immigrant can take the position.

How do you prove that? With a LMIA. That's why people with LMIA have guaranteed invitation. That is fair. If you have been working under a PGWP that doesn't prove that there are no Canadians qualified to do your job. Maybe your company didn't tried enough to hire a Canadian, or they are paying you below market rate. If your company is not even willing to consider a LMIA for you, then what does it say? It clearly says that they can find a Canadian to do the job. The fact that you paid tuition or taxes doesn't matter. The government will prefer to receive those taxes from the Canadian in the job that from you.

Level of education does not relate to skill shortage. There are a lot of Canadians with bachelors, masters, phd's that cannot find a job. On the other hand there are some trade occupations that have shortages, such as plumbers, drillers, machinery operators. That is the reality of today's world. Maybe that's why the PhD stream was eliminated.

CIC is already giving advantage to people with Canadian work experience. We receive more points that overseas applicants. Still people with LMIA should have preference. They proved that they are needed in Canada.

In my opinion a lot of people were abusing the CEC system to immigrate to Canada. Look at the study permit forum. It's full of people looking for easy and cheap courses what will grant them a 2yr PGWP. They end up with a "Hospitality Management" diploma from "Blackwater College". Is that a qualification in shortage? No! Those types of "degree mill" colleges are businesses looking for profit. If people are willing to pay 3x tuition then better for them. They are not the goverment.

CIC is closing the loophole on that. Last year they increased the restrictions on the Study Visa and now with EE. Look at other countries. Most of them don't grant PGWP. The UK cancelled their PGWP program in 2012. I expect to see a more restrictive PGWP for Canada in the future.

When I look at the petition I feel like it will generate resentment from the general population and will affect negatively their opinion of international students. The petition is written with entitlement. It says that you deserve PR because you are already here working. Well, what if that job could have been filled by a Canadian?

I Understand what you mean and Canadians should have preference. . But my argument is if you are working somewhere no body can say you took somebody's job. You were allowed to do it, you have the legal work permit, so how come you took somebody's job? That's your job. If someone thinks like that, he doesn't deserve to be here, quit your job for a Canadian and find a job backhome.

 

[BankingExpressE]

Hi guys, I'm also a PGWP holder but I don't support the petition.

Seriously I think some people fail to grasp the very basic principles of immigration. a Canadian should always have preference over an immigrant. This means that only when there are no Canadians for a Job then an immigrant can take the position.

How do you prove that? With a LMIA. That's why people with LMIA have guaranteed invitation. That is fair. If you have been working under a PGWP that doesn't prove that there are no Canadians qualified to do your job. Maybe your company didn't tried enough to hire a Canadian, or they are paying you below market rate. If your company is not even willing to consider a LMIA for you, then what does it say? It clearly says that they can find a Canadian to do the job. The fact that you paid tuition or taxes doesn't matter. The government will prefer to receive those taxes from the Canadian in the job that from you.

Level of education does not relate to skill shortage. There are a lot of Canadians with bachelors, masters, phd's that cannot find a job. On the other hand there are some trade occupations that have shortages, such as plumbers, drillers, machinery operators. That is the reality of today's world. Maybe that's why the PhD stream was eliminated.

CIC is already giving advantage to people with Canadian work experience. We receive more points that overseas applicants. Still people with LMIA should have preference. They proved that they are needed in Canada.

In my opinion a lot of people were abusing the CEC system to immigrate to Canada. Look at the study permit forum. It's full of people looking for easy and cheap courses what will grant them a 2yr PGWP. They end up with a "Hospitality Management" diploma from "Blackwater College". Is that a qualification in shortage? No! Those types of "degree mill" colleges are businesses looking for profit. If people are willing to pay 3x tuition then better for them. They are not the goverment.

CIC is closing the loophole on that. Last year they increased the restrictions on the Study Visa and now with EE. Look at other countries. Most of them don't grant PGWP. The UK cancelled their PGWP program in 2012. I expect to see a more restrictive PGWP for Canada in the future.

When I look at the petition I feel like it will generate resentment from the general population and will affect negatively their opinion of international students. The petition is written with entitlement. It says that you deserve PR because you are already here working. Well, what if that job could have been filled by a Canadian?

While I absolutely agree with you regarding the people who "cheat" their way to PR through PGWP, that logic doesn't apply to all PGWP holders. And I think that's the core issue here. Those who have a proper degree from a reputable university, qualified work experience, job offer, great language skills, etc. should in my opinion be given some credit. And by that I mean something so substantial that it would put us ahead of the lower ranked LMIA holders. While I do see the point of what LMIA is trying achieve, it also seems to be falling short in some respects. What happens when a sub-850 candidate with PR loses his job? I think they would have a tougher time finding new employment compared to a CEC candidate in the high 400s. Also, based on other posts on this forum and my own experience, large corporations just won't do LMIAs in most cases, however, that doesn't necessarily mean that the jobs we do are less valuable than those who receive an assessment.

 

[farnaws]

Guys,

You people are debating on a issue which are not related to each other. Given the fact that a foreign student has a good degree and a hard earned job, the debate is why or why not s/he should given an opportunity to contribute to Canada's economy? Look at US. They have their big scientists, doctors, engineers who were once immigrants. So, it's the debate on help immigrating right people, and right people has no country barrier, s/he is the citizen of the world.

Why some Canadians citizen sounds rude to me when they say foreigners are taking all 'their' jobs and thus they should be sent back to the country? Why it sounds, some loser is saying it? Why on earth an employer will choose an unqualified foreign worker over qualified local worker? Do you have any answer to that?

 

[mf4361]

^

That point should have been made is most existing PGWP that are working did went through the same hiring process as Canadians, compete with Canadians over interviews and eventually gets the job. It is wrong to say international graduates stole jobs over fellow Canadians.

This is different from some Canadians got fired by their employer, because they can find cheaper labour from overseas that can do the same job *1*2 This is clearly an abuse to the system, some cases down right unethical *3, and need to be stopped.

It's true Canadian should have higher priority than foreigners when all other factors held constant, and it is not always right to say "we are better than Canadians, we deserved the job more" coz this is selfish. But requiring prevalent wage to PGWP is unfair. Companies are not paying a Canadian prevalent wages for an entry-level job *4, so as to an international graduate. Therefore CIC is essentially denying all existing and future graduates from staying for their job.

*1 Brother's Pizza, Weyburn, SK
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/waitresses-in-saskatchewan-lose-jobs-to-foreign-workers-1.2615157

*2 McDonald, Victoria, BC
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/mcdonald-s-accused-of-favouring-foreign-workers-1.2598684

*3 McDonald, Edmonton, AB
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/mcdonald-s-foreign-workers-call-it-slavery-1.2612659

*4 Many skilled and technical jobs are experienced-valued so that an entry-level position is close to provincial minimum pay, while senior level can reach 6 figures, despite having the same NOC. Again, this is different from low-skilled labour work.

 

[n4mo]

Student Visa + PGWP ≠ Permanent Residence!

Your path to permanent residence (and eventually citizenship) is through CEC. You actually have an advantage already considering you have studied and gained work experience in Canada (and it shows, most of you have 400-500 scores, right?).

If you're doing exemplary work, cannot be replaced by a Canadian or permanent resident, then I see no practical reason your employer won't apply LMIA (the cost is neither an excuse nor a deterrent, as it is much more expensive for a company to find a replacement than keep a current employee - goo.gl/b4YEQR).

And those who came in on student visas - didn't you guys agree to leave Canada at the end of your studies? You're actually lucky the PGWP program has a maximum of 3 years (here in the US it is called practical work and it is maximum 12 months only).

I guess it's just sour-graping from you guys (PGWP no LMIA) as your loophole to PR has been effectively shut.

 

[kvn]

Student Visa + PGWP ≠ Permanent Residence!

Your path to permanent residence (and eventually citizenship) is through CEC. You actually have an advantage already considering you have studied and gained work experience in Canada (and it shows, most of you have 400-500 scores, right?).

If you're doing exemplary work, cannot be replaced by a Canadian or permanent resident, then I see no practical reason your employer won't apply LMIA (the cost is neither an excuse nor a deterrent, as it is much more expensive for a company to find a replacement than keep a current employee - goo.gl/b4YEQR).

And those who came in on student visas - didn't you guys agree to leave Canada at the end of your studies? You're actually lucky the PGWP program has a maximum of 3 years (here in the US it is called practical work and it is maximum 12 months only).

I guess it's just sour-graping from you guys (PGWP no LMIA) as your loophole to PR has been effectively shut.

Student Visa + PGWP + Eligible job offer and experience(NOC 0,A,B) after going through the same hiring process as other Canadians/PR/whoever + now Express Entry = Permanent Residence *corrected!!

For your second point about LMIA. You do know that to be approved for LMIA, you would need to meet the median wage($35/hr). Example:For a software dev in Toronto, how many graduates (and by graduates, I mean even the Canadian graduates) do you think start off with $67k a year? (hint: avg starting salary is 55k for university graduates.)

The point for me about EE is the lack of clarity for open work permit holders. I don't think they ever addressed it properly and was more as an afterthought when they slapped the lmia requirement for the 600 points.

 

[mf4361]

Student Visa + PGWP ≠ Permanent Residence. I fully agree. People here have always argue that PGWP shouldn't gets 600 points automatically, that's not the point. Because I don't they should. The arguing point has always on those already have a permanent job under PGWP.

Employer has full discretion of applying LMIA. It's not up to the employee. There are tons of reason employers not helping the employee to apply for LMIA, despite LMIA will get +ve if they do. E.g. liability of paperwork, simply too much work for them, cost of hiring a lawyer and job advertising, company policy, so on

Yes many have took advantage of loopholes of CEC, but now they have also denied many who genuinely contributed to the economy. Immigrants have always been a source of economic development in Canada so stop denying that.

 

[se7en]

Student Visa + PGWP ≠ Permanent Residence!

Your path to permanent residence (and eventually citizenship) is through CEC. You actually have an advantage already considering you have studied and gained work experience in Canada (and it shows, most of you have 400-500 scores, right?).

If you're doing exemplary work, cannot be replaced by a Canadian or permanent resident, then I see no practical reason your employer won't apply LMIA (the cost is neither an excuse nor a deterrent, as it is much more expensive for a company to find a replacement than keep a current employee - goo.gl/b4YEQR).

And those who came in on student visas - didn't you guys agree to leave Canada at the end of your studies? You're actually lucky the PGWP program has a maximum of 3 years (here in the US it is called practical work and it is maximum 12 months only).

I guess it's just sour-graping from you guys (PGWP no LMIA) as your loophole to PR has been effectively shut.

I agree to what you have said about going back after graduation. But why would one go back if there is opportunity available to make future. This opportunity is being opened by the government itself in the shape of 3 years PGWP. They themselves want graduates to stay here, gain experience and then get PR through CEC (again CEC is their own creation) route. Nobody forced them to start these programs.
(PGWP no LMIA) for PR is no doubt has gone away but you will see most of these PGWPs with LMIAs (depends on skills they have) very soon ruling here. I had a discussion with my HR on this thing and they said they will do 100 LMIAs if it is required 100 times after they knew the fact.

 

[n4mo]

My answers in blue:

Student Visa + PGWP + Eligible job offer and experience(NOC 0,A,B) after going through the same hiring process as other Canadians/PR/whoever + now Express Entry = Permanent Residence *corrected!! - You're asking for the previous system that was abused; it was finally corrected

For your second point about LMIA. You do know that to be approved for LMIA, you would need to meet the median wage($35/hr). Example:For a software dev in Toronto, how many graduates (and by graduates, I mean even the Canadian graduates) do you think start off with $67k a year? (hint: avg starting salary is 55k for university graduates.) - If the job isn't eligible for LMIA, then that means there is enough local talent, hence no need for a foreign worker

The point for me about EE is the lack of clarity for open work permit holders. I don't think they ever addressed it properly and was more as an afterthought when they slapped the lmia requirement for the 600 points. - If your only point is more clarity from CIC then good; but this thread is about the petition which mainly focuses on giving additional points to PGWP (no LMIA)

 

[n4mo]

My answers in blue:

Student Visa + PGWP ≠ Permanent Residence. I fully agree. People here have always argue that PGWP shouldn't gets 600 points automatically, that's not the point. Because I don't they should. The arguing point has always on those already have a permanent job under PGWP. - The petition specifically asks for additional 600 points for PGWP holders; Your PGWP is a side benefit of your Canadian education, but it is not a step towards immigration.

Employer has full discretion of applying LMIA. It's not up to the employee. There are tons of reason employers not helping the employee to apply for LMIA, despite LMIA will get +ve if they do. E.g. liability of paperwork, simply too much work for them, cost of hiring a lawyer and job advertising, company policy, so on - Again, you're just giving anecdotal evidence. I mentioned earlier that it would be more costly for the business to replace, rather than retain you < http://goo.gl/fd5qCB >. If you are exemplary and you are the only who can do the work, then your employer should realize that and apply an LMIA for you.

Yes many have took advantage of loopholes of CEC, but now they have also denied many who genuinely contributed to the economy. Immigrants have always been a source of economic development in Canada so stop denying that. - I never said immigrants can't have a positive impact - you probably mistook me for another poster.

 

[n4mo]

I agree to what you have said about going back after graduation. But why would one go back if there is opportunity available to make future.

It is their rules and you agreed to it!

This opportunity is being opened by the government itself in the shape of 3 years PGWP. They themselves want graduates to stay here, gain experience and then get PR through CEC (again CEC is their own creation) route. Nobody forced them to start these programs.

Exactly! Which means you just have to follow the steps for CEC in EE and wait for your ITA

 

[praneet87]

OK. People over here don't seem to grasp a very simple concept. LMIA exists only because a company should first prove there are no Canadian workers and they can hire people from outside of the country. That is all.

PGWP holders with a permanent job need not go through all this because the government has given us an exempt. We cannot get LMIA. Open work permit holders can't get an LMIA. Its just not how it works.

By granting us PR, you are granting someone whos educated in Canada, worked in Canada and assimilated into the country a permanent residence status. We aren't applying from foreign countries. We are here, in the country working, paying taxes, following the law, drinking timmies and still hoping the leafs win one day.

P.S - I don't support any sort of communication to any sort of minister. Not after one pick. I just don't like locals who probably are 2nd or 1st generation immigrants talking as if they are better than the rest because they crossed the hurdle.

 

[avm]

More on abuse of foreign workers and LMIA.

There are hiring agencies specialize in helping Canadian companies hiring from outside the country. These agencies matches jobs with the client companies in Canada, arranges interviews and prepare document. Canadian companies liked them because even after all fees, they are still paying cheaper for foreign labourers because (especially for lower skilled jobs) foreigners would agree to get paid much less than locals, in exchange for working in Canada and potential for PR. And thus the incentive to fire local people.

Besides, unethical companies can control their work and living environments by threatening to take their jobs away. And when they do, the foreign worker has to go home. This is practically enslaving them. E.g. Edmonton McDonald

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/mcdonald-s-foreign-workers-call-it-slavery-1.2612659

This is clearly unethical and of course CIC have to do something here. Thus the new rules in LMIA.

Ask any PGWP are "benefited" from these situations.

Other developed countries like US, UK give work permits for highly skilled workers. Canada is one and only country giving work permits & PRs to low skilled people like food counter attendants, cleaning...