Interesting news article re:imminent changes

[us2yow]

Gosh that was stark and downright depressing !

But, atleast it was the truth - straight from the horse's mouth (i.e. as in the native Canadian you quoted- clarifying lest you misread and thought I was calling you a horse) :

 

[gosia]

wow people don't be angry at each other. We are all going to be Canadians eventually.
Canada is great country for all of us

 

[vic48912]

Canada's run like a corporation for profit of stakeholders, it's not a nation or community based country. For the top elites controlling this piece of land who are just corporate sociopaths 99% of Canadians are nothing better than immigrants or temp workers. Except Canadians have more rights and can cause more trouble, that's why they don't want to give citizenship to anyone. And you're not part of the club, Canadian or not, don't kid yourself. That's why there's usually no quality training or great workplaces in Canadian companies-- the majority of them are cheapskates and would rather hire fully trained professionals elsewhere than train and retain their fellow countrymen. At the same time engaging aggressively into marketing to inflate Canada's external reputation, which is disconnected from reality now. What kind of "nation" is that? It's just a giant corporation where lower 99% are supposed to compete fiercely for the resources to the laughter of the elites while indulging their Darwinistic worldview. Here's what a Canadian says about Canada:

"Here's my take, a native born son of this country, on what's lacking in the canadian experience compared to what I had found living in 3 other foreign countries of some substance.

1. No sense of community. Even when I was growing up and the population here was far more european, people would mind their own business. Neighbours would often not even bother saluting each other, let alone inviting each other into their own homes. How is it even possible to create an identity in such an unreceptive and even hostile social milieu? How?

2. Horrible, unruly organization of the Job market. Even when I was training for a career, it was common knowledge among my friends in school that prospective employers in our industry were actively recruiting foreign staff with many years experience with whom we were somehow expected to compete. In Switzerland they don't do this, neither do they do this in Germany. In those countries, it is virtually unheard of for trained young people NOT to assisted in joining the labour force (German unemployment rates in the young hover at the 6% range, in switz. that would be @ 3%). In Canada, you are on your own in every sense of the word and if you do not establish yourself in your chosen field it is deemed to be due entirely to some personality of character flaw rather than a systemic weakness in the organization of the society itself. Only about a quarter of the people I went to school with, who spent good money getting trained, were ever able to establish themselves in my industry. What a horrible waste of human capital."

My point is there's no point to appeal to the fact that Canadians have trouble finding jobs, everything works just as expected-- everyone has a trouble.

I totally agree with you however I wish to add race to the bottom went full throttle since 2008 when Harper got majority. He even boasted that after he transform Canada no one will recognize it. I live in London England where there is little community cohesion with various community enclaves. Same scenario all over Europe when guest workers with little rights were imported after second world war to fill labour shortages.... East London, Newham, Tower Hamlets Asians and muslims, Tottenham Jews, South East london including Peckham Rye, Brixton and Lewisham Caribbeans and Africans, Middlesex. You will agree with me that kind of scenario does not play out in Canada and that is a fact. Community mixing and integration is faster for new comers to Canada unless you have not been to Europe, however since Harper got majority all we hear is Corporation are lords and the government must run budget deficit to give tax cut to their financial sponsors.....Now corporation are on steroids and trying to re-invent slavery for everyone since Canada was immune from Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Regan madness because of our unique government style!

Now through Jason Kenney a Minister that is suppose to represent everyone we hear rhetoric copied from European fascist playbook like birth tourism, all immigrants are engaged in female genital mutilation, Caribbean immigrant gangsters are foreigners and should be deported even though they might be 2nd generation Canadian, refugees have it so good because they have free dental and the government must make their live so miserable that he will self deport!!!!

The respected UK Guardian newspaper editorial called Harper transformation of Canada racist, you should Google and see Jason Kenney response

 

[vic48912]

wow people don't be angry at each other. We are all going to be Canadians eventually.
Canada is great country for all of us

That Canada is a a great country is unquestionable that is why most immigrants choose Canada out of all countries, however if Harper and his hillbillly reform conservatives gang are not sent packing back to Calgary in the next election we are all doom

 

[Leon]

Leon, You made it sound so easy in an economy where Canadians are finding it difficult to even get jobs and we talking of guest worker seeking someone to sponsor him. Horror stories I read frequently on how temporary workers are being treated I guess is figment of my imagination. Only few month ago Saipem laid off 270 Canadian welders with cheap temporary foreign workers in Husky sunrise project, FtMac. Quit your job, apply for PR? I am sure PR application take months to process.

You see a lot of doom and gloom around. If a worker got an LMO in the first place, there must be need for him. If there is need for him, he has a chance to find another employer with an LMO. After applying for PR and getting the AOR which takes a couple of months, there is now a bridging open work permit available. An open work permit means the ability to work anywhere.

With the old skilled worker program where everybody was guaranteed a PR as long as they had enough points, regardless of there actually being need for this person in the Canadian job market, you had other problems. You had first of all, more people wanting to come to Canada than immigration can process so in some cases waiting lists for processing of up to 7 years. Then you had people complaining that the processing time was too long and that people were dying of old age while waiting for their PR. Then you had the problem of these people finally coming to Canada with their PR and all their points and realizing that the dream turned to a nightmare as they could not find jobs in their fields and were ending up stuck in survival jobs. Do you think this is a better system?

What kind of system would you like to see? Do you think that if thousands of welders were allowed to immigrate at once that they would not go up to Ft. Mac and underbid the guys already there?

 

[vic48912]

You see a lot of doom and gloom around. If a worker got an LMO in the first place, there must be need for him. If there is need for him, he has a chance to find another employer with an LMO. After applying for PR and getting the AOR which takes a couple of months, there is now a bridging open work permit available. An open work permit means the ability to work anywhere.

With the old skilled worker program where everybody was guaranteed a PR as long as they had enough points, regardless of there actually being need for this person in the Canadian job market, you had other problems. You had first of all, more people wanting to come to Canada than immigration can process so in some cases waiting lists for processing of up to 7 years. Then you had people complaining that the processing time was too long and that people were dying of old age while waiting for their PR. Then you had the problem of these people finally coming to Canada with their PR and all their points and realizing that the dream turned to a nightmare as they could not find jobs in their fields and were ending up stuck in survival jobs. Do you think this is a better system?

What kind of system would you like to see? Do you think that if thousands of welders were allowed to immigrate at once that they would not go up to Ft. Mac and underbid the guys already there?

Prime Minister Stephen Harper answered your rhetorical questions in his close door interview in BC with minority journalist.

Cons are trying to take credit for fixing problems Harper government created through Calamity Jason Kenney.....excerpt below about Harper's opinion on Canadian immigration system and guest workers...

“We saw numerous examples of abuse of this program, outright abuse — companies importing workers for the sole purpose of paying less than the prevailing wage, companies importing workers for the purpose of permanently moving the jobs offshore to other countries, companies bringing in foreign workforces with the intention of never having them permanent, and moving the whole workforce back to another country at the end of the job. There must be plans for companies to transition to permanent workforces, and what I say is, if you really need temporary workers permanently then that means we need permanent workers who become Canadian and they have a right to stay here and they have a right to bargain with their employer and they have a right to be treated fairly and not just sent back to where they came from the first time they don’t like something.”

 

[Leon]

Prime Minister Stephen Harper answered your rhetorical questions in his close door interview in BC with minority journalist.

Cons are trying to take credit for fixing problems Harper government created through Calamity Jason Kenney.....excerpt below about Harper's opinion on Canadian immigration system and guest workers...

“We saw numerous examples of abuse of this program, outright abuse — companies importing workers for the sole purpose of paying less than the prevailing wage, companies importing workers for the purpose of permanently moving the jobs offshore to other countries, companies bringing in foreign workforces with the intention of never having them permanent, and moving the whole workforce back to another country at the end of the job. There must be plans for companies to transition to permanent workforces, and what I say is, if you really need temporary workers permanently then that means we need permanent workers who become Canadian and they have a right to stay here and they have a right to bargain with their employer and they have a right to be treated fairly and not just sent back to where they came from the first time they don't like something.”

If the system is working, then all of this is already taken into account. The LMO is not granted unless the employer is offering market wage and has advertised the job without being able to find somebody. I had a former employer who wanted to import a group of workers paying them 10-11$ per hour. The market wage for a helper was maybe around 12-13 at the time. Service Canada said they must pay them 15 or no LMO's. They decided against it. In that case the system worked.

As for companies hiring foreign workers and paying them less than their contract, making them work more, making them work in unsafe conditions etc. happens in all countries. The authorities rely on the workers to complain if they are being treated badly but in some cases, the worker wants the job more than he wants his rights. This also happens with Canadian employees in high unemployment areas.

As for being sent back when you are no longer needed, the employee has every right to stay until his work permit expires and look for another job if he is laid off.

 

[vic48912]

As for companies hiring foreign workers and paying them less than their contract, making them work more, making them work in unsafe conditions etc. happens in all countries. The authorities rely on the workers to complain if they are being treated badly but in some cases, the worker wants the job more than he wants his rights. This also happens with Canadian employees in high unemployment areas.

As for being sent back when you are no longer needed, the employee has every right to stay until his work permit expires and look for another job if he is laid off.

Sentiment like yours is why I emigrated from a third world country to Canada! Canada is a civilize society where everyone will assume the government takes care of the weak and vulnerable, they shouldn't be in the business of formulating policies that will deliberately subjugate others in penury like the changes Jason Kenney did with TFW program....In the LMO example you gave and based on the changes Jason Kenney did in 2012? your former employer would have easily been granted an LMO -an employers can pay TFW 15% less than the prevailing wage than what an established Canadian is receiving (That is a fact, I am not making it up)...It is not the duty of a civilize government to create loop holes like Kenney did akin to re-invention of slavery so that vulnerable people in our society are abused.These are people that have no vote and depend on pay cheque to send home to sustain their families. Its like saying if slaves didn't like their condition they should have complain to their masters or taken up arms against the establishment, that is wishful thinking as you know it will never happen! Even formidable trade unions are terrorize by employers talk less of an individual temporary worker..... Not until voting Canadians citizens became affected by these loopholes and respected banks like RBC use those loop holes to start shipping jobs oversea that it became glaring that Jason Kenney was incompetent and was not fit for purpose and quietly removed from formulating immigration policy. Harper the master minder of the whole fiasco disagree with your assertions and he is trying to amend it and at same time take credit for solving a problem his government created - The Orwellian enablers in government blame companies, while you blame the workers, nice try

 

[Leon]

In the LMO example you gave and based on the changes Jason Kenney did in 2012? your former employer would have easily been granted an LMO -an employers can pay TFW 15% less than the prevailing wage than what an established Canadian is receiving (That is a fact, I am not making it up)...

You are not very good at math. If the prevailing wage were $15 an hour and if they were allowed to pay them 15% less, they would be allowed to pay them 12.75 which is akin to what the helper wage actually was at the time. Not the $10-11 that they wanted to pay.

By the way, I don't think it's right that employers should be able to hire people at 15% less but Service Canada would also have to calculate their averages a bit better because like in my example, they requested an outlandish $15 an hour when Canadians are doing that job for $12-13.

You seem to feel that TFW in Canada are slaves. I don't know who you've been working for but in Canada, you are only a slave as you want to be. Nobody can stop you from walking out, however, it would mean that you lose your job. Alternatively, you can complain to the authorities if you are being treated badly. Maybe you will still lose your job but at least you may prevent that employer from exploiting other workers in the future. And by the way, you can complain anonymously.

Being realistic, how do you think that the government should stop bad treatment or exploitation of workers, both foreign and Canadian, that doesn't involve those workers complaining about their situation? The government does not have enough eyes and ears to be all-knowing. If nobody informs them about a situation, how will they know?