Haven't received PR Card. Can I use my student visa to re-enter by plane?

[espg_007]

Your student visa is no longer valid, all permits/visas etc are cancelled the second you land as a PR in Canada.

Do you hold a visa-exempt passport? As i mentioned there have been a few reports here very recently of PRs travelling as foreign nationals on just their visa-exempt passport, and the airline didn't mention anything about PR status. It may be they won't be able to tell if you're a PR until the eTA leniency period is over in September, nobody knows for sure.

I think in your case the risk is not the airline determining if you're a PR or not, it's if they can determine that your student visa is not valid anymore. Again on this I have no idea what airline actually checks in this case. If you're visa-exempt it wouldn't be an issue, but of course is very important if you don't have a visa-exempt passport.

No, I have one of those not visa-exempt crappy passports :'(

I understand your point. I presume that if any airline does have access to this IAPI database it would be Air Canada, which is the one I will be flying on. So, yeah, I guess the question is whether or not this program is in place or not. I think that the September guess is a good one.

There is this article (http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2015/2015-06-27/html/reg1-eng.php) in the Canada Gazette from June 2015 where the program seems to be described, but it doesn't say when it goes into effect, only how nice it would be for Canada. Knowing how long everything takes for CIC, CBSA, etc. to do, I think it is unlikely that the system is in place.

 

[espg_007]

Just heard back from the VAC in Tokyo. The waiting time for PRDT oscillates around 3 weeks. My trip is 10-days long.

I guess I'll have to go ahead with my plan and hope for the best.

What is the worst that could happen? If they refuse me at Pearson I guess I'll hop on a plane to NYC and come back by bus so I can cross by foot at Niagara Falls.

This whole thing is surreal.

 

[Rob_TO]

No, I have one of those not visa-exempt crappy passports :'(

I understand your point. I presume that if any airline does have access to this IAPI database it would be Air Canada, which is the one I will be flying on. So, yeah, I guess the question is whether or not this program is in place or not. I think that the September guess is a good one.

There is this article (http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2015/2015-06-27/html/reg1-eng.php) in the Canada Gazette from June 2015 where the program seems to be described, but it doesn't say when it goes into effect, only how nice it would be for Canada. Knowing how long everything takes for CIC, CBSA, etc. to do, I think it is unlikely that the system is in place.

The eTA system has been in place for a while. They original date to enforce it was back in March, but then that was pushed to September. But as mentioned, there have been a few reports since the March date, in which PRs traveled with just their passport and the airline still didn't seem to know they were a PR, indicating they still don't have access to this info or did but didn't care. Air Canada should have the same access as any other airline for the purpose of screening passengers.

I guess I'll have to go ahead with my plan and hope for the best.

What is the worst that could happen? If they refuse me at Pearson I guess I'll hop on a plane to NYC and come back by bus so I can cross by foot at Niagara Falls.

The problem is not at Pearson. If you get to Pearson you're home free, as CBSA can very easily determine your PR status with just your passport and COPR.

Your problem is at the airport in Japan when you try to check into your flight to Canada. Worst case is the airline will deny you boarding if they can somehow determine your student visa if no longer valid. If this happens, your only option would be to fly to a US city instead, and cross into Canada by car. Else you would need to apply for the PR TD and wait for it.

 

[Tri-Cities]

...I'm sorry, just curious. And confused.

What if she would book a two-way flight which I find just slightly more expensive. Airline wouldn't ask anything, right? Could that be an option?

And another question is, since visitors are allowed to stay in Canada for up to 6 months (?) do visitors need to show a return ticket afterall? I mean if I would visit Canada for a longer time but wouldn't be sure about the day I want to return to the city where I took off, why would I buy a ticket upfront?
Do I really need a return ticket?

And last but not least, if she would take a flight to the US to cross land border wouldn't she need a two-way flight anyways? Because it would be the same issue, the airline could say no boarding w/o a return ticket and there it goes, the chance of crossing land border with only a passport and the COPR.

no clue, TC

 

[Rob_TO]

...I'm sorry, just curious. And confused.

What if she would book a two-way flight which I find just slightly more expensive. Airline wouldn't ask anything, right? Could that be an option?

And another question is, since visitors are allowed to stay in Canada for up to 6 months (?) do visitors need to show a return ticket afterall? I mean if I would visit Canada for a longer time but wouldn't be sure about the day I want to return to the city where I took off, why would I buy a ticket upfront?
Do I really need a return ticket?

And last but not least, if she would take a flight to the US to cross land border wouldn't she need a two-way flight anyways? Because it would be the same issue, the airline could say no boarding w/o a return ticket and there it goes, the chance of crossing land border with only a passport and the COPR.

no clue, TC

The OP doesn't have a visa-exempt passport, so can't fly just using their passport. They must have a visa, PR card, or PR document.

Return ticket or not is irrelevant in this case.

 

[alok4best]

The only problem is boarding the flight in Japan.
If you manage to trick or convince airline staff to allow you board the plane, then you be fine with your passport and COPR at CBSA counters at Pearson.
Canada does not store PR information against passport.
As far as I know, only Aus and NZ store information against passport.
So when the airline staff swipe your passport, they won't see PR information.

But won't there be a cancelled stamp somewhere on your old passport.
When I renewed my Indian passport recently, they put a big and bold stamp on the first page clearly mentioning that a new passport was issued and old one cannot be used to travel anymore.

 

[espg_007]

The only problem is boarding the flight in Japan.
If you manage to trick or convince airline staff to allow you board the plane, then you be fine with your passport and COPR at CBSA counters at Pearson.
Canada does not store PR information against passport.
As far as I know, only Aus and NZ store information against passport.
So when the airline staff swipe your passport, they won't see PR information.

Not sure what you mean by "not storing information against passport". The passport number appears in the COPR. Also, how else would they know who you are?

But won't there be a cancelled stamp somewhere on your old passport.
When I renewed my Indian passport recently, they put a big and bold stamp on the first page clearly mentioning that a new passport was issued and old one cannot be used to travel anymore.

Yeah that is what I thought but when I got a new passport last year I was surprised to find that there was no indication in my old passport of it no longer being valid. Anyway, it is totally OK to have visas on old passports (for example if you ran out of pages).

 

[Rob_TO]

Not sure what you mean by "not storing information against passport". The passport number appears in the COPR. Also, how else would they know who you are?

You should NOT show COPR to the airline, nor should you mention to the airline you're a PR.

Again the entire premise on a PR traveling using just their visa-exempt passport, is that they are in a way deceiving the airline that they are in fact a foreign national/tourist to Canada, and not a PR. As soon as an airline learns a traveler is a PR, they may demand nothing short of a PR card or PR Travel Doc to be allowed boarding. Whether they still allow a PR to travel on just their passport, is a risk and entirely up to the specific airline. Canada's rules though state all PRs must show a PR card or Travel Doc.

And again the only block against being "discovered" as a PR, is if when doing the check-in screening, the airline receives information from Canada that the traveler is a PR. My guess is people should be safe up until Sept 29, but this is not guaranteed as check-in process is slowly changing leading up to eTA mandatory date.

 

[alok4best]

Not sure what you mean by "not storing information against passport".

It means that as long as you do not show airline staff your COPR, they have no way of finding your Canadian PR status just by swiping your passport.
However, this only works for Canada because Canada does not store PR information on your passport.
For Australia, there is no separate card. Their PR information is directly stored on passport.

The passport number appears in the COPR. Also, how else would they know who you are?

This is what PR cards are for. Yes, passport no is there in your COPR. But once you land, passport no is no more critical.
For e.g. I renewed my passport here in Toronto. And I have a new passport number, which is obviously not on my COPR.
When I contacted CIC to ask if they needed to update my new passport number somewhere on their system, they advised no update was necessary.
I reconfirmed by calling again and talking to a different operator, and was told the same again. i.e. once I land and become a PR, CIC is only bothered about COPR and PR card.

Yeah that is what I thought but when I got a new passport last year I was surprised to find that there was no indication in my old passport of it no longer being valid. Anyway, it is totally OK to have visas on old passports (for example if you ran out of pages).

This is surprising, but different countries have different policies. In my case, i.e. India, the old passport gets a cancellation stamp, and the new passport has a field which contains old passport number.

 

[Bs65]

Slightly off topic but friend was PR in 1980 didn't meet residency has had at least 4 passports since 1980, travelled multiple times to Canada since 1980, tried to apply for an ETA was not refused but offered to renounce PR or apply for travel document which obviously could not qualify for given PR status. The point being governments have ways of identifying people maybe just by name, date of birth and maybe birth town/country and for sure once the ETA becomes mandatory end September before boarding a plane in the same way as an ESTA or visa does for the US then PR status will come into play not necessarily linked to a specific passport given passports change over time but will be either an ETA or PR or no fly..

 

[alok4best]

Slightly off topic but friend was PR in 1980 didn't meet residency has had at least 4 passports since 1980, travelled multiple times to Canada since 1980, tried to apply for an ETA was not refused but offered to renounce PR or apply for travel document which obviously could not qualify for given PR status. The point being governments have ways of identifying people maybe just by name, date of birth and maybe birth town/country and for sure once the ETA becomes mandatory end September before boarding a plane in the same way as an ESTA or visa does for the US then PR status will come into play not necessarily linked to a specific passport given passports change over time but will be either an ETA or PR or no fly..

Exactly. If the matter goes to CIC and CBSA, they can always establish the fact that the person is a PR.
That's why I have been stressing that Canada PR is not linked to passport. Passports will change, numbers will change, but CIC will always find out through other means.

This is just a loophole in the system to trick and deceive airlines staff so that they let you board the plane.

 

[espg_007]

UPDATE: Successfully gamed the system

Everything went as planned:

1) To be able to board the plane I simply pointed to my student visa (on my old passport, i.e. no reference of PR status), the gate agent simply glanced at it. IAPI is not in place yet (at least not in Japan).

2) At Pearson I showed my PR visa that I used for landing back in February. The officer was a pretty cool dude. He stamped my passport before even asking what my status was. I explained that I didn't receive my PR card before my work trip. He asked what I had shown when boarding the plane since I shouldn't have been allowed to, I played dumb and said I had simply shown my passport. His response was hilarious: "Wow, you are one lucky guy. This is Air Canada's problem. Oh well, no skin flayed off my ass. Go ahead". LOL

This probably won't work in a couple months when the IAPI system goes in place, but I'm lucky to say I outsmarted the system, though that isn't much given how dumb it is.

Thank you to everyone who shared their knowledge and experience!!

 

[sarad1]

UPDATE: Successfully gamed the system

Everything went as planned:

1) To be able to board the plane I simply pointed to my student visa (on my old passport, i.e. no reference of PR status), the gate agent simply glanced at it. IAPI is not in place yet (at least not in Japan).

2) At Pearson I showed my PR visa that I used for landing back in February. The officer was a pretty cool dude. He stamped my passport before even asking what my status was. I explained that I didn't receive my PR card before my work trip. He asked what I had shown when boarding the plane since I shouldn't have been allowed to, I played dumb and said I had simply shown my passport. His response was hilarious: "Wow, you are one lucky guy. This is Air Canada's problem. Oh well, no skin flayed off my ass. Go ahead". LOL



This probably won't work in a couple months when the IAPI system goes in place, but I'm lucky to say I outsmarted the system, though that isn't much given how dumb it is.

Thank you to everyone who shared their knowledge and experience!!

Congrats n welcome back to Canada. ;D

 

[mythjill]

UPDATE: Successfully gamed the system

Everything went as planned:

1) To be able to board the plane I simply pointed to my student visa (on my old passport, i.e. no reference of PR status), the gate agent simply glanced at it. IAPI is not in place yet (at least not in Japan).

2) At Pearson I showed my PR visa that I used for landing back in February. The officer was a pretty cool dude. He stamped my passport before even asking what my status was. I explained that I didn't receive my PR card before my work trip. He asked what I had shown when boarding the plane since I shouldn't have been allowed to, I played dumb and said I had simply shown my passport. His response was hilarious: "Wow, you are one lucky guy. This is Air Canada's problem. Oh well, no skin flayed off my ass. Go ahead". LOL

This probably won't work in a couple months when the IAPI system goes in place, but I'm lucky to say I outsmarted the system, though that isn't much given how dumb it is.

Thank you to everyone who shared their knowledge and experience!!

great and I should play dumb too if I still cannot receive my PR card within 2 weeks.

 

[espg_007]

great and I should play dumb too if I still cannot receive my PR card within 2 weeks.

You have to calculate the risk for your particular case.

I went ahead for two reasons: 1) My student visa was in a separate passport, so there was little chance of confusion from the airline agent. 2) In case of being denied boarding I was 100% ready to fly to the US instead and bus to Canada.