FSW WORLDWIDE

[GandiBaat]

My biggest worry with your statement above is that even with country caps, we will still import garbage. It will be "diverse garbage". It will give people who are demanding diversity out of hatred a "peace of mind", but won't solve any real issues.

Actually, it has more to do with Canada being somewhat anti capitalist and its location. Why will you work here if you can be making 1.5 times more just the next door? Talent follows money.

 

[GandiBaat]

Here’s the thing. Country caps aren’t racist. In fact, they’re the opposite and actually promote true diversity.

1. "Racism" is not the only issue, discrimination is a broader and worse issue.
2. Purpose of Economic migration in Canada was never diversity. It was to get highest scoring workers. This is a fig leaf that Quebec shoehorns on an inherently discriminatory policy. Just like it shoehorns secularism when banning religious symbols and expressions (even turbans!) in public employment.

Immigrants who see huge numbers of their own people in the host country, will naturally get into a comfort zone and will never feel the need to integrate into a new society. They will never feel the need to interact with diverse nationalities. You cannot legislate that and nor can you expect them to get out of their comfort zone.

Unwarranted assumption.

Tamils are about 5% of Singapore's population yet their assimilation in Singapore is much better than that of say Punjabis in Canada. Punjabis in Canada are merely 2.6%.

These are perhaps two extremes of integration. It is rule of law and social policies which matters the most. Singapore ruthlessly enforces its laws and policies which Canada is wishy washy about it. Singapore can and does ban certain behaviours and punishes it by massive fines and other penalities. Canada looks the other way. Singapore forces diversity in housing by forcing mixed communities. Canada allows and abets ghettos and patch work of communities. Singapore weeds out behaviour that is not congruent with its values, Canada gives excuses and does not even formulate laws to weed out problematic behaviour.

Its very much possible to enforce integration.

By ensuring that the immigrants coming in to the country are equally derived from various nationalities, you’re actually ensuring that they do not get into a comfort zone once they arrive and they’re forced to interact with each other regardless of differences in backgrounds. This is the only way to promote true diversity.

Thats another unwarranted assumption. In a country where patchwork society is the norm getting more diverse immigrants (even if that happens at all!) will likely create more ghettos. It is also very likely that you will end up compromising even language skills for that because you are selecting for diversity and not for ability to integrate.

 

[abhiram.kumar]

Wasn't talking about country caps in that comment though. Not sure whether the diversity would help solve any issues of housing, quality, etc as the regional ghettos have long established and hard to break. The second gen immigrant kids are even bigger issue, they follow in the footsteps of their immigrant parents and literally take these ghettos to the next level.

I don’t really understand what people mean by second generation immigrant. It’s a stupid term which makes no sense. Not sure where it originated from. Kids born in Canada to immigrant parents are Canadians. They haven’t immigrated from any other country. I haven’t seen the behaviour you speak of. Most children of immigrant parents drop most of their parent’s cultural practices and become white washed. When they have children, it disappears completely. This is what happened to the Italian community in Canada and will happen to all communities in time. What you talk about happens in Europe not Canada. I have an Indo Canadian Sikh friend who hates Indian food and cooks western food at home most of the time. The behaviours you see in Brampton and Surrey are displayed by foreign born individuals. Immigrants find it very difficult to leave their garbage at home once they get into a comfort zone.

 

[abhiram.kumar]

1. "Racism" is not the only issue, discrimination is a broader and worse issue.
2. Purpose of Economic migration in Canada was never diversity. It was to get highest scoring workers. This is a fig leaf that Quebec shoehorns on an inherently discriminatory policy. Just like it shoehorns secularism when banning religious symbols and expressions (even turbans!) in public employment.


Unwarranted assumption.

Tamils are about 5% of Singapore's population yet their assimilation in Singapore is much better than that of say Punjabis in Canada. Punjabis in Canada are merely 2.6%.

These are perhaps two extremes of integration. It is rule of law and social policies which matters the most. Singapore ruthlessly enforces its laws and policies which Canada is wishy washy about it. Singapore can and does ban certain behaviours and punishes it by massive fines and other penalities. Canada looks the other way. Singapore forces diversity in housing by forcing mixed communities. Canada allows and abets ghettos and patch work of communities. Singapore weeds out behaviour that is not congruent with its values, Canada gives excuses and does not even formulate laws to weed out problematic behaviour.

Its very much possible to enforce integration.

You made assumptions about the Tamil population in Singapore without even understanding its history. A significant portion of the Tamil population in Singapore are natives and their ancestry can be traced back to the time when Indian traders from Tamil Nadu began settling in Malaysia about 300 years ago. Singapore was part of Malaysia before it split. Calling them immigrants is laughable. Tamil is also one of the official languages of Singapore because of this. Singapore also sees its fair share of immigrants from India and China. Guess what, local Singaporeans have the exact complaints about the indian and Chinese immigrant population as Canadians have. I know this because I have family in Singapore. The reputation of Indian immigrants became tarnished when there was a huge influx of Indians in the past ten years. It didn’t matter if they were educated and working in high paid jobs, the common complaints were that they would play loud music at 3am, would litter, would be loud and inconsiderate in public etc.

Regarding your point about diversity. Diversity is one of the core values Canada supposedly cherishes when it comes to Immigration. By placing a per country cap on the applications processed or received through express entry, you are still achieving diversity while achieving economic objectives.

 

[DesiPikachu]

The behaviours you see in Brampton and Surrey are displayed by foreign born individuals.

Come on now, all prominent gang members of Asian/South-Asian gangs were born in Canada.

Indo-Canadian organized crime - Wikipedia
List of gangs in Canada - Wikipedia

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

I don’t really understand what people mean by second generation immigrant. It’s a stupid term which makes no sense. Not sure where it originated from. Kids born in Canada to immigrant parents are Canadians. They haven’t immigrated from any other country. I haven’t seen the behaviour you speak of. Most children of immigrant parents drop most of their parent’s cultural practices and become white washed. When they have children, it disappears completely. This is what happened to the Italian community in Canada and will happen to all communities in time. What you talk about happens in Europe not Canada. I have an Indo Canadian Sikh friend who hates Indian food and cooks western food at home most of the time. The behaviours you see in Brampton and Surrey are displayed by foreign born individuals. Immigrants find it very difficult to leave their garbage at home once they get into a comfort zone.

Surrey and Brampton are everywhere now(Calgary, Edmonton, etc). Maybe, it isn't the case where you live. But these Canadian born kids of desi immigrants are no different. Even in Calgary, we have AK47 decals on their cars, high number of crimes from them, vote block politics, regressive lifestyles, etc from them. Same for every other major immigrant group.

How many of these do you see pick-up STEM degrees or work beyond contracting jobs? We don't have to agree or disagree on this, but Brampton and Surrey has a large number of these Canadian born kids and I don't see what you are talking about. You are probably only seeing those who moved out of their parent's house and are actually a small percentage of the rest. Most Canadian born desi-kids live in a multi-generational households and are anything but assimilated. They like to pretend they are, but deep down, they aren't. They are slumlords, LMIA sellers, etc. Look up businesses around you from lmiamap.ca, check who owns those businesses and see for yourself.

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

Regarding your point about diversity. Diversity is one of the core values Canada supposedly cherishes when it comes to Immigration. By placing a per country cap on the applications processed or received through express entry, you are still achieving diversity while achieving economic objectives.

Garbage diversity is good for no one. You can't disagree with that as a fact. Very few good immigrants are coming here, that's the real concern and there's no economic engine to bring them or retain them. A diverse group of lumberjacks moving to Canada will hardly contribute to economic prosperity. That's what we will get either way(with or without diversity).

Before you get into the "contribution to construction" industry argument, no! Those contributions are meaningless and net zero(if not negative) in a shrinking economy.

 

[abhiram.kumar]

Surrey and Brampton are everywhere now(Calgary, Edmonton, etc). Maybe, it isn't the case where you live. But these Canadian born kids of desi immigrants are no different. Even in Calgary, we have AK47 decals on their cars, high number of crimes from them, vote block politics, regressive lifestyles, etc from them. Same for every other major immigrant group.

How many of these do you see pick-up STEM degrees or work beyond contracting jobs? We don't have to agree or disagree on this, but Brampton and Surrey has a large number of these Canadian born kids and I don't see what you are talking about. You are probably only seeing those who moved out of their parent's house and are actually a small percentage of the rest. Most Canadian born desi-kids live in a multi-generational households and are anything but assimilated. They like to pretend they are, but deep down, they aren't. They are slumlords, LMIA sellers, etc. Look up businesses around you from lmiamap.ca, check who owns those businesses and see for yourself.

I have no idea what you’re talking about. I can speak from only my personal experiences. From my personal experience, Indians who are born in Canada, are extremely successful. I’ve interacted with Indo Canadian Sikhs who are dermatologists, business owners, accountants etc. The ones I’ve spoken to, detest and abhor the current crop of Indian international students coming from India. I’ve only seen the activities you speak of being done by Sikhs from India.

 

[abhiram.kumar]

Garbage diversity is good for no one. You can't disagree with that as a fact. Very few good immigrants are coming here, that's the real concern and there's no economic engine to bring them or retain them. A diverse group of lumberjacks moving to Canada will hardly contribute to economic prosperity. That's what we will get either way(with or without diversity).

Before you get into the "contribution to construction" industry argument, no! Those contributions are meaningless and net zero(if not negative) in a shrinking economy.

Do you have any data to prove this? Barring the covid years, this was not the case.

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

Do you have any data to prove this? Barring the covid years, this was not the case.

Unfortunately, no data here. And, if we go by numbers, in 2022 new PRs were incredibly successful and earned $30k/yr more compared to an average Canadian citizen. But, when I am actually out there, I only see a handful of us in skilled roles. I've met good cut-throat desi PRs in GTA, but Calgary, Edmonton & even Vancouver seems to show something else. I rarely meet good ones.

I'll try to keep an open mind on the topic, but honestly, not seeing it locally at all. If anything, it feels like we have a bunch of immigrants here who don't fit-in financially or culturally. I'll write a detailed 1st year experience on this thread for anyone considering migrating to Calgary which would explain a bit more.

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

Unfortunately, no data here. And, if we go by numbers, in 2022 new PRs were incredibly successful and earned $30k/yr more compared to an average Canadian citizen. But, when I am actually out there, I only see a handful of us in skilled roles. I've met good cut-throat desi PRs in GTA, but Calgary, Edmonton & even Vancouver seems to show something else. I rarely meet good ones.

I'll try to keep an open mind on the topic, but honestly, not seeing it locally at all. If anything, it feels like we have a bunch of immigrants here who don't fit-in financially or culturally. I'll write a detailed 1st year experience on this thread for anyone considering migrating to Calgary which would explain a bit more.

No skilled individual will move to Calgary Edmonton when most opportunities are in GTA/Vancouver. Unless you have a remote job which likely means very skilled

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

No skilled individual will move to Calgary Edmonton when most opportunities are in GTA/Vancouver. Unless you have a remote job which likely means very skilled

Quite a lot of PRs that moved here, but true that very few good ones in Calgary.

 

[abhiram.kumar]

Quite a lot of PRs that moved here, but true that very few good ones in Calgary.

Calgary is one of the fastest growing tech markets in the whole of North American. Here’s raw data: https://www.cbre.ca/press-releases/toronto-reclaims-number-4-spot-in-cbres-latest-north-american-tech-talent-ranking. Roflmao . It’s not Toronto or Vancouver but to say that it doesn’t have any opportunities is laughable. You guys just bring up stuff from your feelings.

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

Calgary is one of the fastest growing tech markets in the whole of North American. Here’s raw data: https://www.cbre.ca/press-releases/toronto-reclaims-number-4-spot-in-cbres-latest-north-american-tech-talent-ranking. Roflmao . It’s not Toronto or Vancouver but to say that it doesn’t have any opportunities is laughable. You guys just bring up stuff from your feelings.

50% increase of 500 is still less than 10% increase of 5000

Who’s in Calgary besides Tata consulting

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

50% increase of 500 is still less than 10% increase of 5000

Who’s in Calgary besides Tata consulting

Infosys came last year and brought ~4000 TFWs with them. Growth!