Frustrated!!!PLEASE HELP, Leon or anybody. Conjugal Partnership e-mail.

[computergeek]

I agree. The only thing that is worth keeping in mind is that the definition of marriages of convenience as per CIC's definition was expanded a couple of years ago to include marriages that happen to facilitate the visa issues, even if the relationship is genuine. I'm no expert on legal issues. I'm sure your lawyer will keep these things in mind while communicating with CIC.

It's a fine line here. Everyone is applying for PR because it provides an immigration benefit. The reason you need to convince them the relationship is genuine is that it's the primary reason - immigration merely is the mechanism by which you meet your needs.

Good luck!

 

[PMM]

Hi

Hi Erica,
I feel your frustration... I applied under conjugal also. I live in Nova Scotia and I sponsored my partner who is Italian Permanent resident. But... he is Albanian born so, this has caused us a few problems. He was denied a visa to visit Canada last june when we went to the Rome Embassy in person. This forced us to file conjugal as a PR. I got my approval for sponsorship last week and his app has been forwarded to Rome.

I went to Albania in september and I have no plans to marry just for the fun of it. We want to marry in Canada where my son and family are. Conjugal is what it is and being married does not make it faster. We consider ourselves husband and wife... who are unable to be together because of these barriers. Best to you

Brenda

I think you are going to be in the same boat as the OP as although your partner wasn't able to come to Canada, there was nothing stopping you from going to Italy, where you could have lived together for a year to meet the C/law definition.

I thought that I might add an addenda on how a conjugal appeal went at the IAD http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc/2012/2012canlii61936/2012canlii61936.html

 

[Erina]

Hi


I think you are going to be in the same boat as the OP as although your partner wasn't able to come to Canada, there was nothing stopping you from going to Italy, where you could have lived together for a year to meet the C/law definition.

The difference is they could live in Italy legally. Unmarried couples cannot live together in Iran, even if they do they won't have proof that they have lived together.

 

[wongchild]

Hi


I think you are going to be in the same boat as the OP as although your partner wasn't able to come to Canada, there was nothing stopping you from going to Italy, where you could have lived together for a year to meet the C/law definition.

I thought that I might add an addenda on how a conjugal appeal went at the IAD

I have a 7 year old son.. you expected me to live in Italy for a year so we could be common-law. CIC wants to keep families together, not tear them apart and force people to live common-law, that's why conjugal exists when couples can't be together. Thanks for the case law but this is quite a different story then mine

Conjugal partner

This category is for partners—either of the opposite sex or same sex—in exceptional circumstances beyond their control that prevent them from qualifying as common-law partners or spouses by living together.

A conjugal relationship is more than a physical relationship. It means you depend on each other, there is some permanence to the relationship and there is the same level of commitment as a marriage or a common-law relationship.

You may apply as a conjugal partner if:

you have maintained a conjugal relationship with your sponsor for at least one year and you have been prevented from living together or marrying because of:
an immigration barrier
your marital status (for example, you are married to someone else and living in a country where divorce is not possible) or
your sexual orientation (for example, you are in a same-sex relationship and same-sex marriage is not permitted where you live)
you can provide evidence there was a reason you could not live together (for example, you were refused long-term stays in each other’s country).
You should not apply as a conjugal partner if:

You could have lived together but chose not to. This shows that you did not have the level of commitment required for a conjugal relationship. (For example, one of you may not have wanted to give up a job or a course of study, or your relationship was not yet at the point where you were ready to live together.)
You cannot provide evidence there was a reason that kept you from living together.
You are engaged to be married. In this case, you should either apply as a spouse once the marriage has taken place or apply as a common-law partner if you have lived together continuously for at least 12 months.

 

[amikety]

I think they're going to want to know why you aren't married if you can be and plan to. For most cases, wanting a preferred location is not enough. You've shown you can visit him... Is there something legal preventing marriage? Preference of location isn't a legal barrier.

If you're planning to get married, CIC likes to see you married. I suspect they will want to know why you didn't marry in Italy.

I don't know your details, obviously, just the details you've posted. Keep in mind only 1-2% of conjugal apps are successful because these legal barriers only exist on a few places.

 

[Erina]

Do you think they might refuse our application just based on my answers regarding their question? Because in most cases they call for an interview and if still suspecious, it leads to a refusal. I'm assuming after reading my letter, if they still have concerns most likely they ask call for an interview?

 

[BCgirl2012]

Do you think they might refuse our application just based on my answers regarding their question? Because in most cases they call for an interview and if still suspecious, it leads to a refusal. I'm assuming after reading my letter, if they still have concerns most likely they ask call for an interview?

Well, that's good question. I really hope they do. From what I understood from what you've posted, the officer's concern is that he is not convinced if you guys match the conjugal criteria, and out of the two other choices, you don't fit the CL either. The only remaining one that he couldn't rule out was marriage, hence he wanted to check with you why you couldn't get married in a third country.

As for what (s)he will do, unfortunately we can't tell. But I hope all turns out fine for you guys. All the best!

 

[Erina]

Well, that's good question. I really hope they do. From what I understood from what you've posted, the officer's concern is that he is not convinced if you guys match the conjugal criteria, and out of the two other choices, you don't fit the CL either. The only remaining one that he couldn't rule out was marriage, hence he wanted to check with you why you couldn't get married in a third country.

As for what (s)he will do, unfortunately we can't tell. But I hope all turns out fine for you guys. All the best!

Thanks. Cheers

 

[Erina]

I found something very interesting on OP02 page 33:

Although the intention of the conjugal-partner category is to accommodate those few Canadians
with foreign partners who can neither marry nor live together, inability to marry cannot be an
absolute requirement, since this could have the effect of “forcing” those couples to marry who may
have chosen not to do so. Persons who have established and maintained a conjugal relationship
for one year and who do not intend to marry might be conjugal partners if they have been unable
to cohabit because of an immigration impediment or other serious barrier.

The officer has approved our relationship as well as not qualifying us as common law since unmarried couples are not permitted in Iran to live together for a year. So basically CIC cannot refuse the case merely because he expect us to marry in a third country. They have this rule. Do you think I should notify them about this issue?

 

[mariawalker]

I am also under conjugal partnership, I am from the Philippines I am separated for almost 3 years now we dont have divorce here in my country so we cannot get married. We also gave tons and tons of evidences, we got a letter around July asking for more proofs and we sent them and now we are scheduled for interview they did not specify what area of the application they are in doubt of, but they are asking for more proofs of conjugal partnership. We ordered GCMS notes and the visa officer is in doubt whether we meet the qualification of conjugal partnership. We met online July 2, 2010 and from day one we knew that we wanted to spend the rest of our lives with each other he asked me to marry him after a week of knowing him but since we cannot get married because of my status in my country we decided to commit to each other exclusively as husband and wife. He visited me November 28,2010 stayed for 3 weeks and then visited me again on feb 14,2011 for 5 weeks he almost lost his job for staying with me. He cannot stay here for long as we can be charged with adultery. Now what I think the vo is thinking with our situation is that the conjugal partnership started when he visited me when our relationship consummate. We filed September 2,2011 so what I think is that the visa officer is not considering us having atleast 1 year of relationship. How can I prove that our relationship had been conjugal even before we physically met?

Go for annulment if you need help PM me

 

[tuyen]

So basically CIC cannot refuse the case merely because he expect us to marry in a third country. They have this rule. Do you think I should notify them about this issue?

I have news for you..
The CIC can (and will) refuse your application for the simple reason that you're pissing them off.
Hell, I've been reading 4 pages of this thread, and you've already pissed ME off after just the first page with all your blathering and nonsense. You've provided absolutely NO REASONABLE EXPLANATION as to why you don't get married. If you supposedly love this person, then there should be nothing stopping you. However, if you just want to "play house", then yeah, the CIC will see right through that as a high risk case.

You're an adult, right? You're a Canadian citizen, right? You've living in a FREE COUNTRY, right? You don't NEED your father's permission. So why the hell are you intentionally making this so difficult? GO TO A THIRD COUNTRY AND GET MARRIED! It doesn't have to be in Iran, and it doesn't have to be in Turkey. You can go ANYWHERE in Europe. You can go to South America. You can go to the jungles of Africa for all I care.

You seem absolutely determined to do everything EXCEPT get married, while at the same time making sure that you piss off everyone at CIC who comes into contact with your application.

And now, the icing on the cake will be for you to start quoting CIC rules and regulations to THEM. As if they need a lesson in immigration law from you.

I'm usually very sympathetic to people who are in difficult circumstances and who just want to start their life together as a couple. But in your case, I'm not able to have ANY sympathy for you because everything you do and everything you say just irritates me. And you know what? I GUARANTEE that the CIC officers who are in charge of your application are feeling the exact same way.

If I was in charge of your application, I would've already rejected it.

 

[wongchild]

I have news for you..
The CIC can (and will) refuse your application for the simple reason that you're pissing them off.
Hell, I've been reading 4 pages of this thread, and you've already pissed ME off after just the first page with all your blathering and nonsense. You've provided absolutely NO REASONABLE EXPLANATION as to why you don't get married. If you supposedly love this person, then there should be nothing stopping you. However, if you just want to "play house", then yeah, the CIC will see right through that as a high risk case.

You're an adult, right? You're a Canadian citizen, right? You've living in a FREE COUNTRY, right? You don't NEED your father's permission. So why the hell are you intentionally making this so difficult? GO TO A THIRD COUNTRY AND GET MARRIED! It doesn't have to be in Iran, and it doesn't have to be in Turkey. You can go ANYWHERE in Europe. You can go to South America. You can go to the jungles of Africa for all I care.

You seem absolutely determined to do everything EXCEPT get married, while at the same time making sure that you piss off everyone at CIC who comes into contact with your application.

And now, the icing on the cake will be for you to start quoting CIC rules and regulations to THEM. As if they need a lesson in immigration law from you.

I'm usually very sympathetic to people who are in difficult circumstances and who just want to start their life together as a couple. But in your case, I'm not able to have ANY sympathy for you because everything you do and everything you say just irritates me. And you know what? I GUARANTEE that the CIC officers who are in charge of your application are feeling the exact same way.

If I was in charge of your application, I would've already rejected it.

Wow.. I often wonder if they watch these threads. Wouldn't be hard to figure out who's who by all the dates

 

[computergeek]

The officer has approved our relationship as well as not qualifying us as common law since unmarried couples are not permitted in Iran to live together for a year. So basically CIC cannot refuse the case merely because he expect us to marry in a third country. They have this rule. Do you think I should notify them about this issue?

"Notify" is a bit strong. I might, however, include that quotation and cite to it in a letter to the VO. So you can say "we are exercising our right not to marry in a foreign country under circumstances that would be counter to our families wishes" for example. The VO might reject it, but then would face being overturned by the IAD - that's why citing to this paragraph in the OP would be very powerful. It would be interesting to see if there are any cases similar on CanLii, because offering up such a case as well would be a very powerful motivator. VOs do not like to be overturned on appeal.

So maybe I'd say "persuade" would be a better approach here. You aren't trying to be adversarial with the VO, you're merely trying to guide her or him to reaching the correct decision, with a sound basis in operating principles and law.

 

[Erina]

I have news for you..
The CIC can (and will) refuse your application for the simple reason that you're pissing them off.
Hell, I've been reading 4 pages of this thread, and you've already pissed ME off after just the first page with all your blathering and nonsense. You've provided absolutely NO REASONABLE EXPLANATION as to why you don't get married. If you supposedly love this person, then there should be nothing stopping you. However, if you just want to "play house", then yeah, the CIC will see right through that as a high risk case.

You're an adult, right? You're a Canadian citizen, right? You've living in a FREE COUNTRY, right? You don't NEED your father's permission. So why the hell are you intentionally making this so difficult? GO TO A THIRD COUNTRY AND GET MARRIED! It doesn't have to be in Iran, and it doesn't have to be in Turkey. You can go ANYWHERE in Europe. You can go to South America. You can go to the jungles of Africa for all I care.

You seem absolutely determined to do everything EXCEPT get married, while at the same time making sure that you piss off everyone at CIC who comes into contact with your application.

And now, the icing on the cake will be for you to start quoting CIC rules and regulations to THEM. As if they need a lesson in immigration law from you.

I'm usually very sympathetic to people who are in difficult circumstances and who just want to start their life together as a couple. But in your case, I'm not able to have ANY sympathy for you because everything you do and everything you say just irritates me. And you know what? I GUARANTEE that the CIC officers who are in charge of your application are feeling the exact same way.

If I was in charge of your application, I would've already rejected it.

I think you're very rude. I shouldn't even try to reply to your msg, but in the future don't judge people in this rude and offensive way, while you know nothing about cases and what you read here is a small part of a whole story. You don't know for political reasons my partner cannot reach Iranian authorities to obtain a certificate to marry in Turkey or elsewhere, and I cannot share this story for security reasons. I feel sorry for this dirty world that someone like you would feel SYMPATHY for people.

 

[Erina]

"Notify" is a bit strong. I might, however, include that quotation and cite to it in a letter to the VO. So you can say "we are exercising our right not to marry in a foreign country under circumstances that would be counter to our families wishes" for example. The VO might reject it, but then would face being overturned by the IAD - that's why citing to this paragraph in the OP would be very powerful. It would be interesting to see if there are any cases similar on CanLii, because offering up such a case as well would be a very powerful motivator. VOs do not like to be overturned on appeal.

So maybe I'd say "persuade" would be a better approach here. You aren't trying to be adversarial with the VO, you're merely trying to guide her or him to reaching the correct decision, with a sound basis in operating principles and law.

Thank you dear, you're very nice.