Foreign Service - Strike?

[NicAnn]

I guess its the employers reputations at the line here.. No matter what happens employers doesnt bend down to the employee .. Because if that happens the chain of command would just fall.. + people seeing how employers give up easy would just trigger other employees to act the same way with the strikers to get what they want

Yep, you get a + (A+ head of the class)

 

[Frida19]

Hello everyone ,

Has anybody hear of any updates about the strike ??

Thank u

 

[marianasanroman]

Hello everyone ,

Has anybody hear of any updates about the strike ??

Thank u

PAFSO is waiting for the PSLRB hearing, and they expect to have a date this week. if the PSLRB forces the Treasury Board into binding arbitration, the strike would end. We'll need to wait until the end of the week.

 

[sidhu1982]

There is a process that must be followed before the PSLRB can be implemented.

If your criticism was constructive then it would have merit. Unfortunately you think that well educated professionals should make minimum wage . That is not even realistic. This government is willing to sacrifice 100's of millions and potentially a billion dollars to save the taxpayer $4.2 million. Really you believe this? You must be a Conservative economist then.

Lol .. What did I say .. U guys just can't take any argument and so pathetic that come down to personal attack .. It like u guys are so brainwashed.

Which rule book of union says that you have to strike for certain amount of time or damage an economy by that amount of $$$ before going to labor board ?
This is just ill intentions of the union.. They think that they will make people suffer and govt will bend down..

Everybody can agree on this that they could have kept maximum staff on job with may be only a few on rotating strike and even then went to pslrb without intentionally causing this much damage.. It's not rocket science
This is ego on both side

And for thr record I am not a conservative and never voted for them
I am a citizen who pays an average of 33% tax on income and 13% on HST and still they close down a swimming pool near my house because they don't have funding.. Just saying

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

Lol .. What did I say .. U guys just can't take any argument and so pathetic that come down to personal attack .. It like u guys are so brainwashed.

Which rule book of union says that you have to strike for certain amount of time or damage an economy by that amount of $$$ before going to labor board ?
This is just ill intentions of the union.. They think that they will make people suffer and govt will bend down..

Everybody can agree on this that they could have kept maximum staff on job with may be only a few on rotating strike and even then went to pslrb without intentionally causing this much damage.. It's not rocket science
This is ego on both side

And for thr record I am not a conservative and never voted for them
I am a citizen who pays an average of 33% tax on income and 13% on HST and still they close down a swimming pool near my house because they don't have funding.. Just saying

You obviously do not understand labour relations.

To remain on the job without the government negotiating in good faith would mean that PAFSO members would be continuing to work without a contract. Their contract expired June of 2011. Negotiations would have started a year prior to that date. They have already shown their good faith by not striking earlier. The government has not shown good faith by allowing the bargaining to stall and end in a job action.

I am also a citizen who pays 40% on income tax and 13% provincial sales /GST......so what? The swimming pool near your house is paid for out of your municipal taxes. Tell your provincial government to give more money back to the city you live in to afford your swimming pool.

The argument isn't about money. I posted that in my last comment. Its about reducing public service wages so they are equal to what the private sector makes. Which in terms of the average worker is shit. They essentially want the public service worker to take a $15000/year pay cut. Do you think that will reduce your taxes? Dream on. The government wants to privatize as many government services as they can. Do you think that will benefit you? Dream on. Currently what government services you pay for are to cover costs so in order for a private company to offer the same service they would have to raise the price to make their profit. You could easily see and increase of 30 to 40 percent on some services (passports, immigration, postal services etc).

There are just some things government can do better and cheaper than the private sector.

 

[Frida19]

PAFSO is waiting for the PSLRB hearing, and they expect to have a date this week. if the PSLRB forces the Treasury Board into binding arbitration, the strike would end. We'll need to wait until the end of the week.

Lets hope it ends this week & thanks for the info

 

[aadi]

There is a process that must be followed before the PSLRB can be implemented.

If your criticism was constructive then it would have merit. Unfortunately you think that well educated professionals should make minimum wage . That is not even realistic. This government is willing to sacrifice 100's of millions and potentially a billion dollars to save the taxpayer $4.2 million. Really you believe this? You must be a Conservative economist then.

if you think you are getting paid as per your qualification then MOVE ON & let other people work

 

[sidhu1982]

You obviously do not understand labour relations.

To remain on the job without the government negotiating in good faith would mean that PAFSO members would be continuing to work without a contract. Their contract expired June of 2011. Negotiations would have started a year prior to that date. They have already shown their good faith by not striking earlier. The government has not shown good faith by allowing the bargaining to stall and end in a job action.

I am also a citizen who pays 40% on income tax and 13% provincial sales /GST......so what? The swimming pool near your house is paid for out of your municipal taxes. Tell your provincial government to give more money back to the city you live in to afford your swimming pool.

The argument isn't about money. I posted that in my last comment. Its about reducing public service wages so they are equal to what the private sector makes. Which in terms of the average worker is *censored word*. They essentially want the public service worker to take a $15000/year pay cut. Do you think that will reduce your taxes? Dream on. The government wants to privatize as many government services as they can. Do you think that will benefit you? Dream on. Currently what government services you pay for are to cover costs so in order for a private company to offer the same service they would have to raise the price to make their profit. You could easily see and increase of 30 to 40 percent on some services (passports, immigration, postal services etc).

There are just some things government can do better and cheaper than the private sector.

You are still avoiding the question. Can this union not engage PSLRB with minimum damage to economy? or its just their ego and insensitivity towards canadian public and economy which they bluntly gave the statements on how its going to hurt canada
you got it all wrong ...the argument is about money that the union is demanding and also its not about reducing public service wages. the only reason someone wants to work in public service is the benefits, pensions etc.. otherwise some private sector pays way much more than public service counterparts.. again its factual and depends of line of employment.. should they be striking as well?

As if there is an increase in fee for these services, i will gladly pay for it as long as there is transparency, Strict SLA's , performance based appraisals and shorter wait time. But at the same time i dont want these crucial services to go offshore or non canadian citizens as it puts national security at greater risk.
municipal taxes.. what are those ..i am not sure i have heard of them...
lets agree to disagree on this subject since my thoughts or many other tax paying citizens will not align well with your mentality and no matter how much damage this strike have done to canadian economy the union will always be unapologetic and selfish about their average 80k salary and cushy benefits

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

You are still avoiding the question. Can this union not engage PSLRB with minimum damage to economy? or its just their ego and insensitivity towards canadian public and economy which they bluntly gave the statements on how its going to hurt canada
you got it all wrong ...the argument is about money that the union is demanding and also its not about reducing public service wages. the only reason someone wants to work in public service is the benefits, pensions etc.. otherwise some private sector pays way much more than public service counterparts.. again its factual and depends of line of employment.. should they be striking as well?

As if there is an increase in fee for these services, i will gladly pay for it as long as there is transparency, Strict SLA's , performance based appraisals and shorter wait time. But at the same time i dont want these crucial services to go offshore or non canadian citizens as it puts national security at greater risk.
municipal taxes.. what are those ..i am not sure i have heard of them...
lets agree to disagree on this subject since my thoughts or many other tax paying citizens will not align well with your mentality and no matter how much damage this strike have done to canadian economy the union will always be unapologetic and selfish about their average 80k salary and cushy benefits

You never asked a question. You made a statement.

Some of these positions are lawyers. You don't think a Lawyer can do much better in the private sector?

The argument is not about money. If it was the government would have paid them the $4.2 million dollars to equalize their wages and saved 100's of millions of dollars in financial losses to the economy. This is about breaking Unions and driving down the wages and benefits to what they were more than a decade ago. Its about a government hacking off 30000 public service jobs with another 20000 waiting to be terminated. Its about closing visa offices abroad and privatizing a portion of the processing to VAC's staffed by non Canadians but getting paid by Canada. Its about a government that has repeatedly attacked and undermined the legal labour negotiation agreements and illegally removed the workers right to strike.

You are so focused on one small detail that you can't see what is happening around you.

I will not agree to disagree simply because you are poorly informed and wrong in your assumptions. Maybe you should start using the internet to check your facts instead of using it just for porn.

 

[suban]

PAFSO is waiting for the PSLRB hearing, and they expect to have a date this week. if the PSLRB forces the Treasury Board into binding arbitration, the strike would end. We'll need to wait until the end of the week.

Do u mean visa issue resumes as soon as PSLRB forces TB to go to arbitration? But PAFSO is saying 'There is NO change in the nature of strike UNTIL our demand is fulfilled'. Confused..plz make me clear or correct me if i am wrong

 

[sidhu1982]

You never asked a question. You made a statement.

Some of these positions are lawyers. You don't think a Lawyer can do much better in the private sector?

The argument is not about money. If it was the government would have paid them the $4.2 million dollars to equalize their wages and saved 100's of millions of dollars in financial losses to the economy. This is about breaking Unions and driving down the wages and benefits to what they were more than a decade ago. Its about a government hacking off 30000 public service jobs with another 20000 waiting to be terminated. Its about closing visa offices abroad and privatizing a portion of the processing to VAC's staffed by non Canadians but getting paid by Canada. Its about a government that has repeatedly attacked and undermined the legal labour negotiation agreements and illegally removed the workers right to strike.

You are so focused on one small detail that you can't see what is happening around you.

I will not agree to disagree simply because you are poorly informed and wrong in your assumptions. Maybe you should start using the internet to check your facts instead of using it just for *censored word*.

lol this is hilarious, buddy ..stop crying, nobody stole your sandwich

the intentions of PAFSO union is clear to 80% of the people except the union and workers. "Blackmail this government, lets inconvenience the innocent people so our greed can be fulfilled", now that government is not caving in, the union getting more desperate going to outrageous extent in harming the economy, families and students. what they think is that we can hold the canadians hostage because we are in Public service and we wont provide any service to public. Next time some body else will hold up the government and demand a ransom of 4 million dollars otherwise you will pay in billion ... seriously. this is pure greed, blackmailing and i really hope they get legislated back to work or fired. And the irony is they are saying " hey lets talk about our wages but we dare you if you mention our perks" for which taxpayers already pay millions every year.

you are so close-minded and obviously get so defensive and angry if anybody says the truth about greed or mistreatment by this union that you go all the way to personal attack.. same mindset as the union .. check the tweets by tim ..ur leader who has got so much arrogance that he doesnt even wanna go back to table... what is he scared off or worry if their stand is so legit.

if these chaps are paying so poorly that they cannot survive, why dont they get a job of lawyer or accountant in canada?

Also if a sentence ends with a "?" then it is a question .. may be you can go back to high school to learn english, instead of avoiding / dodging the question and giving the run around for current issue which is engaging PSLRB after damaging this country economically. one thing which unions are good in is strike and cause problems to the public. striking should not be first option but last. PAFSO exposed itself by revealing that they had several other options available including taking to labour relation board before causing this much distress to my country.
what you fail to understand is by causing this huge distress on economy which PAFSO takes the responsibility, how many canadians will lose their jobs in tourism, hospitality and education sectors, which in turn result in less taxes paid by employee in private sectors, people get laid off and on unemployment bringing this impact to whole different level

you may need to start using the internet and may be read some articles in English about this current situation and you will be surprised that there is no mention of job cuts , closing visa offices, or privatizing, also it has nothing to do with anther 20k jobs waiting to be shunted.. what PAFSO is complaining is that they are not getting paid the same as some other public servants doing the similar job but wait we(FS) have very unique skill set.. this doesnt make any sense for their slogan "fair is fair" ..it should be " fair is currently not good enough for us"
cannot wait until September when there will be some concrete action against these slackers. the public service employees working against public interest.

 

[Dan_from_Surrey]

You are still avoiding the question. Can this union not engage PSLRB with minimum damage to economy? or its just their ego and insensitivity towards canadian public and economy which they bluntly gave the statements on how its going to hurt canada

Just for clarification (on most bargaining processes)

The union nor the employer can just engage the LRB. Generally bargaining consists of many steps, long before you would even think about the LRB (I am relating this through experience with the BCLRB, other jurisdictions will probably have some variance)

Most contracts should have a "Begin Bargaining" date clause in them, ie both parties agree that they will begin bargaining x months before the expiry of their current CA (collective agreement).

In the lead up to that date or after that date, both sides will get their respective teams together for their committees, do the request for proposals, exchange dates for preliminary meetings to exchange proposals etc.

That done, with the proposals exchanged, gone over by both sides, then they will either start right there, or set dates going forward to get to the actually work of bargaining.

Both sides now have to meet, and discuss, horse trade, negotiate, talk, piss and moan their points. (baring of course they can talk it out and come to a deal) Until the point that neither side can move at all, it has to be a total impasse. If both sides reach a impasse in their opinions, then they can agree to bring in an Arbitrator. This starts a new side process that doesn't need to be covered here...

If both sides deem them selves at a impasse, then either can apply for a lock out (employer) or for strike action (union) this means going to the LRB proving the impasse, having the LRB agree there is an impasse then going through the necessary steps for either a lock out or strike.

In this case, a strike, the Union gets permission to canvas members, and holds a vote of the membership, which has to be scrutinized by people outside of the articular union local in question. The results go back to the LRB, they grant x amount of days for the action to happen, generally if no action happens within the set time, the union is out of luck, and has to go through the process again to get permission from the LRB to strike....

So lets say negotiations have hit impasse, the Union has done it's bit with the LRB, now in most cases they will have some sort of very limited job action within 30/60/90 days what ever the terms set out by the LRB set forth, generally something small to keep the strike mandate alive and active, such as a 1 day ban on over time. this keeps the strike mandate "fresh", but also gives them some limited power to try and force the other side back to the table.

In this case that hasn't worked, so far the union has done all the above steps, but the government has refused to bargain, and refuses to even come to the table...(this next bit I am a little cloudy on, so anyone else who has better recollection than I can chime in) now I believe (correctly or not) that the union offered to go to an arbitrator before approaching the the LRB with the present "Bad Faith" claim again the employer.

Which would mean at impasse and in a full blown strike position, they where still trying to seek an end. But the employer was the one who wanted the conditions imposed on the arbitrator, to which the union even agreed with 2 or 3 of them, but couldn't swallow (I believe) all six, this was when the employer then turned around and again snubbed their noses at the employees.

So you are at two processes the employer is snubbing their nose at, and two attempts by the employees, to try and effect some sort of end to the negotiations.

But even with that, you still spit on the union as the antagonist.

So the union didn't just go on strike, and say screw Canadians, they have tried and tried again to negotiate with an employer unwilling to even sit at the table. To the point, the union has offered to give up their bargaining rights 100% and put their cards completely in the hands of an arbitrator and let the pieces fall where they may, and still the government refuses that.

 

[sidhu1982]

Do u mean visa issue resumes as soon as PSLRB forces TB to go to arbitration? But PAFSO is saying 'There is NO change in the nature of strike UNTIL our demand is fulfilled'. Confused..plz make me clear or correct me if i am wrong

No, the TB provided some preconditions which included this condition of resuming work along with some other important ones. even if the PSLRB intervenes, the govt will stick to those preconditions which were rejected by the union
so far there is no such statement from PAFSO that they will start working if they decide to go back to table.

 

[Dan_from_Surrey]

Lets hope it ends this week & thanks for the info

Not to take this thread to far off track, but AMEN and +1!

 

[sidhu1982]

Just for clarification (on most bargaining processes)

thank you for the detailed information.
but by this you are suggesting that pafso must have already went to LRB prior to last week?

[/quote]
If both sides deem them selves at a impasse, then either can apply for a lock out (employer) or for strike action (union) this means going to the LRB proving the impasse, having the LRB agree there is an impasse then going through the necessary steps for either a lock out or strike.

In this case, a strike, the Union gets permission to canvas members, and holds a vote of the membership, which has to be scrutinized by people outside of the articular union local in question. The results go back to the LRB, they grant x amount of days for the action to happen, generally if no action happens within the set time, the union is out of luck, and has to go through the process again to get permission from the LRB to strike....[/quote]