FAMILY REUNIFICATION - BIG CHANGES

[Bcboundboy]

Maybe they could have actually used the word "Conditional", when originally describing what they were trying to do???

You mean like "rather than imposing a two-year conditional status", from liberal.ca? (Sept 2015) https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/09/A-new-plan-for-Canadian-immigration-and-economic-opportunity.pdf

Perhaps you were misled by the news reports at the time "immediate permanent residency to spouses of immigrants, instead of making them wait two years on conditional status" (global news, Sept 25 2015).

There was never any doubt about the promise.

 

[screech339]

You mean like "rather than imposing a two-year conditional status", from liberal.ca? (Sept 2015) https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/09/A-new-plan-for-Canadian-immigration-and-economic-opportunity.pdf

Perhaps you were misled by the news reports at the time "immediate permanent residency to spouses of immigrants, instead of making them wait two years on conditional status" (global news, Sept 25 2015).

There was never any doubt about the promise.

Do you honestly think that voters are flocking to the website for list of promises? They listened to what Trudeau said during campaign. That is what matters. Funny that Trudeau didn't say these exact words as listed on website at any time during campaign.

The people who wrote the website knew exactly what trudeau meant. So the website is correct but contradict what Trudeau promised out of his own mouth.

 

[Rob_TO]

You mean like "rather than imposing a two-year conditional status", from liberal.ca? (Sept 2015) https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/09/A-new-plan-for-Canadian-immigration-and-economic-opportunity.pdf

Perhaps you were misled by the news reports at the time "immediate permanent residency to spouses of immigrants, instead of making them wait two years on conditional status" (global news, Sept 25 2015).

There was never any doubt about the promise.

Here is their main comprehensive (88 page) Liberal platform from 2015: https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/10/New-plan-for-a-strong-middle-class.pdf
Also here is their main online souce: https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/reuniting-families/
It does NOT state "conditional". They assume everyone will understand "waiting" = "conditional".
we will change the rules so that spouses
immigrating to Canada receive immediate permanent residency – rather than
a two-year waiting period.

This is why multiple people came on this site excited at the news they may not longer have to wait up to 2 years for some visa offices and inland, for application processing time. Many people were confused over this.
Perhaps they did correct this later.

 

[Bcboundboy]

Here is their main comprehensive (88 page) Liberal platform from 2015: https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/10/New-plan-for-a-strong-middle-class.pdf
Also here is their main online souce: https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/reuniting-families/
It does NOT state "conditional". They assume everyone will understand "waiting" = "conditional".
we will change the rules so that spouses
immigrating to Canada receive immediate permanent residency – rather than
a two-year waiting period.

This is why multiple people came on this site excited at the news they may not longer have to wait up to 2 years for some visa offices and inland, for application processing time. Many people were confused over this.
Perhaps they did correct this later.

The site you links to (which doesn't have a date, unlike the Sept 2015 dated things I showed you which clearly and explicitly have the word 'conditional' that you demanded), states "We will also grant immediate permanent residency to new spouses entering Canada, eliminating the two-year waiting period". I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to read that as it's written "We will eliminate the two year waiting period" instead of making up something else "We will make a decision immediately". Multiple people may have been excited, but they were making up a promise that never existed, and they had no reasonable grounds to believe existed.

[quote author=screech339]Do you honestly think that voters are flocking to the website for list of promises? They listened to what Trudeau said during campaign. That is what matters. Funny that Trudeau didn't say these exact words as listed on website at any time during campaign.

The people who wrote the website knew exactly what trudeau meant. So the website is correct but contradict what Trudeau promised out of his own mouth.
[/quote]

Of course I believe people on a web forum were able to read information clearly posted on party political and news websites.

Since this information was clearly available then, and now (and has been provided), I do look forward to your posting every word spoken by Trudeau on the topic, in order to 'prove' your claim anything else was ever promised.

 

[Rob_TO]

The site you links to (which doesn't have a date, unlike the Sept 2015 dated things I showed you which clearly and explicitly have the word 'conditional' that you demanded), states "We will also grant immediate permanent residency to new spouses entering Canada, eliminating the two-year waiting period". I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to read that as it's written "We will eliminate the two year waiting period" instead of making up something else "We will make a decision immediately". Multiple people may have been excited, but they were making up a promise that never existed, and they had no reasonable grounds to believe existed.

What I posted were their main comprehensive election platform releases. What you posted was a 3-page blurb.

You know how to eliminate any confusion about if they were referencing the conditional status or application processing? How about actually using the word "conditional" on EVERY released platform promise document.

What is not debatable is that people were confused, mostly those that didn't understand in detail the full immigration process in the first place. Most senior members and people who knew the process more knew exactly what they were talking about. Also the processing time for inland apps as well as from some visa offices right at that time was coincidentally right around 2 years. We saw ample evidence by several people here posting their confusion on what the Liberals were talking about here.

Again there is no excuse not to use the word "conditional" when talking about conditional PR status. Very bad and confusing wording to those not as knowledgeable about the immigration process.

 

[Bcboundboy]

What I posted were their main comprehensive election platform releases. What you posted was a 3-page blurb.

You know how to eliminate any confusion about if they were referencing the conditional status or application processing? How about actually using the word "conditional" on EVERY released platform promise document.

What is not debatable is that people were confused, mostly those that didn't understand in detail the full immigration process in the first place. Most senior members and people who knew the process more knew exactly what they were talking about. Also the processing time for inland apps as well as from some visa offices right at that time was coincidentally right around 2 years. We saw ample evidence by several people here posting their confusion on what the Liberals were talking about here.

Again there is no excuse not to use the word "conditional" when talking about conditional PR status. Very bad and confusing wording to those not as knowledgeable about the immigration process.

I would hardly call a 7 sentence webpage "their main online source", as you did. It is clear that from long before the election, both liberal.ca and the media reports of their plans repeatedly referred to the removal of conditional permanent residency, in those precise words. Other instances referred merely to eliminating the two year waiting period that conditional PR is. In either case, nowhere did anybody ever suggest that decisions would be made immediately, nor can the promises reasonably be read to infer that. Pretending that they did, or could be, is deceitful, and undermines political campaigning and democracy.

It does seem clear that some people were confused, and people who can clearly read English should have immediately made clear to them that the 'conditional PR' and 'the two year waiting period' referred to were merely the conditional PR and the two year waiting period, not the application process.

 

[thepilot]

It's funny that child sponsorship stays the same, great for couples :

 

[Rob_TO]

I would hardly call a 7 sentence webpage "their main online source", as you did.

Take a look again.
First link was an 88 page platform document
Other was taken from this link: https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/ , which was their main election website page

It is clear that from long before the election, both liberal.ca and the media reports of their plans repeatedly referred to the removal of conditional permanent residency, in those precise words.

So why not simply use the precise word "conditional" in your main platform document and website??

It does seem clear that some people were confused, and people who can clearly read English should have immediately made clear to them that the 'conditional PR' and 'the two year waiting period' referred to were merely the conditional PR and the two year waiting period, not the application process.

We did correct many people on this site, that were indeed confused. People that don't use this site that were confused, probably stayed confused.

It's very easy to see how some people not as versed on what conditional PR was, but could see the current inland process time was exactly around 2 years, could interpret the "waiting period" to mean the 2 year processing time. This is all in the past anyways, and it was already proven that people were confused by the Liberals wording. Because YOU personally weren't confused doesn't speak for the average Canadian.

 

[Bcboundboy]

Take a look again.
First link was an 88 page platform document
Other was taken from this link: https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/ , which was their main election website page

You describe the 7 sentence page as 'their main online source'. That was your exact phrase next to a link for it. If you go there and click on "Download Full Policy", it says "rather than imposing a two-year conditional status"

So why not simply use the precise word "conditional" in your main platform document and website??

They did. The very short summaries you're using now didn't. The main thing they described as "full policy" did.

We did correct many people on this site, that were indeed confused. People that don't use this site that were confused, probably stayed confused.

That is unfortunate, but you seem intent now on propagating the confusion, rather than helping to correct people.

It's very easy to see how some people not as versed on what conditional PR was, but could see the current inland process time was exactly around 2 years, could interpret the "waiting period" to mean the 2 year processing time. This is all in the past anyways, and it was already proven that people were confused by the Liberals wording. Because YOU personally weren't confused doesn't speak for the average Canadian.

If they had somehow mistaken it, then that is indeed unfortunate. But there was no reasonable way they could have been so. I think a lot of people wanted to leap to a ridiculous conclusion, and pretended they had read something that never existed.

 

[screech339]

If they had somehow mistaken it, then that is indeed unfortunate. But there was no reasonable way they could have been so. I think a lot of people wanted to leap to a ridiculous conclusion, and pretended they had read something that never existed.

That is what the liberals had hope for. That a lot of people actually mistaken his verbal promises as for processing time and not "conditional PR". This is misdirection of "not clearly" what "immediate" PR really meant. As long as his "unclear" promise translates into votes for them, all the better.