Effective date of Bill C24

[screech339]

@ screech,
I'm sorry that i'm being unable to show you the different set of freedoms for naturalized and born Canadians.

The solution that i presented was to answer "govt cannot do much to control the born Canadians: 52% of the diaspora" "so lets control the 48% of the naturalized diaspora" set of statement.

Maybe i will give one last try to illustrate, lets say you upon getting the grant of citizenship get a job offer from abroad which is too good to refuse. If you take that offer, you will be categorized as citizen of convenience (never had the intent if you move). But a born Canadian can take such offer and have no issues.

Lets say you are in Alberta working as an engineer with Oil&Gas. Economy goes sour, you are laid off along with other born Canadian engineers. You look for work, you get similar work out of Canada, but you cannot take that job opportunity. Born Canadian can.

If a case came up like you gave me for example, I wouldn't be considered a Canadian of convenience if I took it for work temporary for a few years (3-5 years) and then come back. However if I took it and stayed overseas until retirement, I can view myself as a Canadian of Convenience as I would be taking advantage of the fact that I would not be contributing any money to Canada Health care until I decided to retire and come back to Canada, getting free health care coverage. While none of my money when to cover health care while I was away the whole time. now retiring with people working paying taxes to support my medical cost.

 

[CanadianCountry]

But again its not important what you "think" after how many years of stay/work abroad you become Canadian of Convenence. Its what the law says.

The law is vague or non existant on this. Some people consider even after 3-4 years as Canadian of Convenience.

If a case came up like you gave me for example, I wouldn't be considered a Canadian of convenience if I took it for work temporary for a few years (3-5 years) and then come back. However if I took it and stayed overseas until retirement, I can view myself as a Canadian of Convenience as I would be taking advantage of the fact that I would not be contributing any money to Canada Health care until I decided to retire and come back to Canada, getting free health care coverage while none of my money when to cover health care while I was away the whole time.

 

[screech339]

But again its not important what you "think" after how many years of stay/work abroad you become Canadian of Convenence. Its what the law says.

The law is vague or non existant on this. Some people consider even after 3-4 years as Canadian of Convenience.

If people thinks 3-4 years is Canadian of Convenience, than I must have been one while I worked TEMPORARY in US for 5 years before moving back to Canada permanently and still working (not retiring).

 

[CanadianCountry]

@screech
Technically you were Canadian of Convenience for those 5 years, "until" the day you came back to Canada.

If your job in US was full-time "permanent" job then absolutely even for a 1 yr job you were a CofC.

If your job in US was "temporary" and UNLESS your job letter said "temporary" THEN ONLY you are safe to say you are not a CofC.

If people thinks 3-4 years is Canadian of Convenience, than I must have been one while I worked TEMPORARY in US for 5 years before moving back to Canada permanently and still working (not retiring).

 

[screech339]

@ screech
Technically you were Canadian of Convenience for those 5 years, "until" the day you came back t

If your job in US was full-time "permanent" job then absolutely even for a 1 yr job you were a CofC.

If your job in US was "temporary" and UNLESS your job letter said "temporary" THEN ONLY you are safe to say you are not a CofC.

The point is the longer you stay outside Canada, the more you are taking advantage of the Canada Health Care / Social benefits since your income doesn't contribute towards it when you do come back.

There is an point in the time away from Canada does it comes to the point that your tax contributions in Canada does not cover the cost of medical/social benefits when you do come back.

My time away from Canada in US is 5 years of not contributing to canada health care. So in theory I should not be able claim 5 years of canadian benefits in Canada such as medical care since I didn't contribute it for 5 years.

 

[MUFC]

I really don't see how the new law will stop the so called Canadians of convenience... Why they've presented that law as a measure to stop them , when in practice the things will be the same.
That law is like a tool for good impression for the elections.

 

[CanadianCountry]

@screech,
I agree with you on the benefits side of the questions. I am not concerned about the benefits but the implications of the "Intent to Reside".

For those 5 years, your actions were contrary to the "Intent to Reside" here in Canada. The day you take that job you lost the intent, that will be interpretation of CIC. As per new laws, you cannot sign "Intent to Reside" documents and take a full time permanent job overseas.

So my simple point is: what you were able to do, a person under new laws will most certain be impacted negatively under new laws. He will most certainly will not get citizenship or would have citizenship revoked if he/she takes that job like you did.

The point is the longer you stay outside Canada, the more you are taking advantage of the Canada Health Care / Social benefits since your income doesn't contribute towards it when you do come back.

There is an point in the time away from Canada does it comes to the point that your tax contributions in Canada does not cover the cost of medical/social benefits when you do come back.

My time away from Canada in US is 5 years of not contributing to canada health care. So in theory I should not be able claim 5 years of canadian benefits in Canada such as medical care since I didn't contribute it for 5 years.

 

[screech339]

@ screech,
I agree with you on the benefits side of the questions. I am not concerned about the benefits but the implications of the "Intent to Reside".

For those 5 years, your actions were contrary to the "Intent to Reside" here in Canada. The day you take that job you lost the intent, that will be interpretation of CIC. As per new laws, you cannot sign "Intent to Reside" documents and take a full time permanent job overseas.

So my simple point is: what you were able to do, a person under new laws will most certain be impacted negatively under new laws. He will most certainly will not get citizenship or would have citizenship revoked if he/she takes that job like you did.

You do realize that "the intent to reside" clause only applies to the period of submitting application to time of oath and getting certificate.

So once you get citizenship, you won't lose citizenship because you left after getting it. You may be viewed one as CofC purposes but you won't lose your citizenship.

There will always be Canadian of Convenience label applied to those who leave Canada for work, whether they are 2 or 40 years. The longer a Canadian works outside Canada, the more CofC impression will stick to you.

 

[CanadianCountry]

@screech,
I know the "intent to reside" applies from the time of application to oath.

But consider the unique circumstance, that you applied for citizenship with intent to reside documentation. In the meanwhile you are laid off. Then you are restricted to make the move overseas and take the appropriate job until the time you take oath. And if you do move take that job, you dont have the intent to stay anymore.

You do realize that "the intent to reside" clause only applies to the period of submitting application to time of oath and getting certificate.

So once you get citizenship, you won't lose citizenship because you left after getting it. You may be viewed one as CofC purposes but you won't lose your citizenship.

There will always be Canadian of Convenience label applied to those who leave Canada for work, whether they are 2 or 40 years. The longer a Canadian works outside Canada, the more CofC impression will stick to you.

 

[MUFC]

You do realize that "the intent to reside" clause only applies to the period of submitting application to time of oath and getting certificate.

So once you get citizenship, you won't lose citizenship because you left after getting it. You may be viewed one as CofC purposes but you won't lose your citizenship.

This might be a good reason for CIC to continue the processing of the applications in a slow way. How otherwise CIC would be convinced that the applicant has intend to reside if they give away the citizenship short after the submission of the application.

There is no way the applicant to show his/her intent to reside if the process become fast.

 

[CanadianCountry]

Agree, its a good reason for slower processing. "Intent to Reside" is like a hook and the slower the processing the longer the applicant can be made to stay.

This might be a good reason for CIC to continue the processing of the applications in a slow way. How otherwise CIC would be convinced that the applicant has intend to reside if they give away the citizenship short after the submission of the application.

There is no way the applicant to show his/her intent to reside if the process become fast.

 

[screech339]

@ screech,
I know the "intent to reside" applies from the time of application to oath.

But consider the unique circumstance, that you applied for citizenship with intent to reside documentation. In the meanwhile you are laid off. Then you are restricted to make the move overseas and take the appropriate job until the time you take oath. And if you do move take that job, you dont have the intent to stay anymore.

It is unfortunate that a person may have lost a job in middle of application process thus "stuck" in Canada if he/she wants to have canadian citizenship if he/she wants it so badly. But again he/she has to be a choice on what is a priority, getting a job overseas or getting citizenship. Remember applying for citizenship is a choice thus must accept the consequences of making that informed decision. If one loses a job and need to go overseas to pay the bill, that is a decision he/she must make him/herself.

If a person was unemployed at the time of submitting application, he/she knew the consequences of applying. He/she has to stay in Canada until oath if he/she wants citizenship.

 

[godhelp]

any news on 'intent of reside' implementation date??

thanks,
GH

 

[screech339]

any news on 'intent of reside' implementation date??

thanks,
GH

It will be the same date when 4/6 year rule kick in. As to when it that will happen is anyone's guess. Best educated guess would be June/July timeframe.

 

[CanadianCountry]

@screech
Its easier to say pick one. Make a choice whether you want citizenship or relevant job . Both are a necessity.

So if you are a mid-level manager working for Oil and gas company in Alberta. And if you lose your job due to layoffs. Your options are:

1. Stay to prove your intent to reside (because your word is not enough), and take some janitorial or taxi or construction labor job. Be underpaid and be demoralized.

2. Or take a suitable job and suffer the wrath of CIC.

Thanks for such great options.

It is unfortunate that a person may have lost a job in middle of application process thus "stuck" in Canada if he/she wants to have canadian citizenship if he/she wants it so badly. But again he/she has to be a choice on what is a priority, getting a job overseas or getting citizenship. Remember applying for citizenship is a choice thus must accept the consequences of making that informed decision. If one loses a job and need to go overseas to pay the bill, that is a decision he/she must make him/herself.

If a person was unemployed at the time of submitting application, he/she knew the consequences of applying. He/she has to stay in Canada until oath if he/she wants citizenship.