Effective date of Bill C24

[screech339]

Common man! You are just too mean in your comments and always seeing things from the wrong direction. You said and I quote " If you are intending to stay permanently, you are, in a sense, committing immigration fraud" If this is a fraud then why do CIC have dual intent?? I can conclude that you are just blabbing all over here cos you aint affected directly by this bill.

I am sorry that your opinion is difference from mine. It is your prerogative. I may have been too strong a word to say "in a sense, committing immigration fraud" thus why I said "in a sense". I didn't say out right you are committing fraud. Will you show up at the border and tell the CBSA agent that you are intending to stay permanently, even though you are intending to do exactly that? Or accept that you are given a visa to stay 6 months or 1 year, whatever the length the agent grant you. Are you going to tell the agent after being granted a 6 month stay, "Scr*w you, I'm staying permanently in Canada" ? No you won't. You will likely stay silent in the hope you are granted entry. By staying silent and accepting the visa length of stay, you are, in fact, in Canada temporary. Whatever your thoughts are in terms of staying permanently has no bearing on getting citizenship, only on getting PR status.

As mentioned by others, work visa is a dual intent to PR, not to citizenship. So until you have your PR papers in process, you are in Canada temporary until a decision is made on your PR status, including landing as PR. This is why I still stand by my opinion that Pre-PR days should not count towards citizenship. Makes a lot more sense if they were counted toward gaining PR status. If only there was a spot on the PR application forms to account your days in Canada as a temporary student/visitor/work as part of consideration in gaining leverage in gaining PR status. The longer you were in Canada temporary, the stronger your intent to be PR will be.

 

[nadeem55]

Well, these are the laws, still now, they are giving credits for Pre-PR days and I hope the cut off date should be announce when most of the PRs would benefits from the old rule, that's it.

Whatever make sense for you doesn't make sense for majority (Sreech339) again if you're against this law then why you're plunging in and so curious about the Bill C24 date?

 

[screech339]

If the government want to remove the Pre-PR days towards citizenship, it would be nice to (and they should) consider them towards getting PR status from temporary visa status, where it makes the most sense, at least to me.

 

[screech339]

Whatever make sense for you doesn't make sense for majority (Sreech339) again if you're against this law then why you're plunging in and so curious about the Bill C24 date?

If this question is directed at me, it doesn't affect me but it does affect my PR spouse. She is affected by the new rules too. If it affected my spouse, it indirectly affected me.

If my spouse were to qualify under the old rule and collect Pre-PR days towards citizenship, she is able to due to the law giving it at the time. Just because they can collect Pre-PR days, doesn't make it right.

 

[CanadianCountry]

screech, nadeem:

Somebody asked whats the logic of govt to take CPP payments from Temporary workers and not giving any credit towards the time towards the citizenship.

One one hand the govt says that there is no intent to live permanently on Temp worker status, then why are they collecting CPP for his/her retirement.

Is the govt confused or there is some malice.

If this question is directed at me, it doesn't affect me but it does affect my PR spouse. She is affected by the new rules too. If it affected my spouse, it indirectly affected me.

If my spouse were to qualify under the old rule and collect Pre-PR days towards citizenship, she is able to due to the law giving it at the time. Just because they can collect Pre-PR days, doesn't make it right.

 

[na123]

2 weeks left for the comment period. Did anybody send a comment or an email? anybody heard back? I have about 50 days left to apply :'(

 

[PMM]

Hi

screech, nadeem:

Somebody asked whats the logic of govt to take CPP payments from Temporary workers and not giving any credit towards the time towards the citizenship.

One one hand the govt says that there is no intent to live permanently on Temp worker status, then why are they collecting CPP for his/her retirement.

Is the govt confused or there is some malice.

1. You don't understand CPP. If you pay in as a temporary worker, when you hit retirement age, you will be able to collect a proportional CPP pension even if you are not in Canada.

 

[dpenabill]

. . . no intent to live permanently on Temp worker status, then why are they collecting CPP for his/her retirement

Is the govt confused or there is some malice.

In addition to the observation by PMM:

The CPP contribution is largely a form of taxation. The contribution itself is not an investment for the individual. An individual with terminal cancer who is still earning an income must still pay CPP for example, even though there is absolutely no prospect that individual will ever collect CPP.

Additionally, Canada has treaties with many other governments regarding collection of such funds and payment to individuals. Some of the treaty provisions provide for credit in the respective countries. These provisions are mostly about avoiding double taxation, on one hand, and providing retirement benefits to individuals despite working in multiple countries in the course of one's life (which is increasingly common in today's world).

And, overall in many respects Canada's tax laws apply independently of immigration status. Even undocumented immigrants working illegally in Canada are legally obligated to pay Canadian taxes, including CPP contributions as applicable. (Even though they do not, at least not so beyond what employers withhold and pay.)

No confusion. No malice.

 

[MUFC]

2 weeks left for the comment period. Did anybody send a comment or an email? anybody heard back? I have about 50 days left to apply :'(

I think that a lot of people are sending comments but so far I don't know a case if someone has an actual response from the contact details provided in the gazette.

Nerve wracking I know ,but this government likes to act like spy agents on a very special mission. Smoke and Mirrors and Mystery.

 

[CanadianCountry]

PMM,
I think you are not getting my point.

Is there a provision for temp workers to completely opt out if they dont want to be part of the CPP system? If the temp worker has no say to opt in out opt out, then it only elaborates my point.

When a temp worker's stay has no credit towards his claim towards citizenship (claiming pre-PR days), since the nature of stay was temporary, then why the temp worker has to pay CPP now. Would it not be better that the temp worker pays CPP only when he/she is a PR.

Many temp workers will be happy to send the money that they are putting to CPP to instead send that money to home country and keep in fixed deposits and earn 10% annual interest.

Hi


1. You don't understand CPP. If you pay in as a temporary worker, when you hit retirement age, you will be able to collect a proportional CPP pension even if you are not in Canada.

 

[CanadianCountry]

Disagreements to dpenabill's post:
1.) I would disagree that CPP is a taxation without any consideration of future benefits for the payee. It might be confused as a tax by some since it gets deducted with EI and Fed and State taxes. But its not a tax. Its a payment to a govt pension plan, and thats only that is. And an individual who is only temp worker here should have a say to opt out of this govt pension plan.

2.) Canada doesnt have treaties about the pension funds with many countries and as of today has no treaties with countries from which majority of immigrants are coming.

3.) "Canada's tax laws apply independently of immigration status." Because its convenient to collect money for the govt, when there is no claim to be made. Again CPP payments are payments to a pension plan and not a TAX. If i open a RRSP and make pre-tax contributions to RRSP account, will i say im paying tax to my RRSP. No, since its not a tax and same goes for CPP. Paying fed, state, local taxes, paying EI all makes sense for temp workers, but CPP not so much.

Payments for CPP appears as a tax (incorrectly) because the govt mandates collection and have a nice formula on how much to collect. And they need this to run CPP properly. But this confuses many as the method govt uses to collect income tax is quite similar as well.

In addition to the observation by PMM:

The CPP contribution is largely a form of taxation. The contribution itself is not an investment for the individual. An individual with terminal cancer who is still earning an income must still pay CPP for example, even though there is absolutely no prospect that individual will ever collect CPP.

Additionally, Canada has treaties with many other governments regarding collection of such funds and payment to individuals. Some of the treaty provisions provide for credit in the respective countries. These provisions are mostly about avoiding double taxation, on one hand, and providing retirement benefits to individuals despite working in multiple countries in the course of one's life (which is increasingly common in today's world).

And, overall in many respects Canada's tax laws apply independently of immigration status. Even undocumented immigrants working illegally in Canada are legally obligated to pay Canadian taxes, including CPP contributions as applicable. (Even though they do not, at least not so beyond what employers withhold and pay.)

No confusion. No malice.

 

[screech339]

PMM,
I think you are not getting my point.

Is there a provision for temp workers to completely opt out if they dont want to be part of the CPP system? If the temp worker has no say to opt in out opt out, then it only elaborates my point.

When a temp worker's stay has no credit towards his claim towards citizenship (claiming pre-PR days), since the nature of stay was temporary, then why the temp worker has to pay CPP now. Would it not be better that the temp worker pays CPP only when he/she is a PR.

Many temp workers will be happy to send the money that they are putting to CPP to instead send that money to home country and keep in fixed deposits and earn 10% annual interest.

You do realize that PR can collect CPP while as PR. Again nothing to do with collecting pre-PR days towards citizenship.

I could see your point if CPP was only available to those holding Canadian citizenship. But that is not the case. Another example with both PR and Canadian having same benefits here.

 

[CanadianCountry]

Wow. Why so many people are completely blinded.

1. "You do realize that PR can collect CPP while as PR"
The point is not who can collect CPP. Its very clear a PR, citizen or even a temp worker (who returns without his/her PR) collects CPP. But a temp worker who never wanted to be part of CPP is forced to be part of CPP. And this is completely wrong.

2.Again nothing to do with collecting pre-PR days towards citizenship.
Its only logical that if pre-PR days have no claim towards citizenship, in the same breath, pre-PR contributions cannot be forced down temp workers throat. Now dont mask the CPP payments as tax and everybody pays tax logic, as its completely flawed. Only temp workers who wilfully want to contribute should contribute.

You do realize that PR can collect CPP while as PR. Again nothing to do with collecting pre-PR days towards citizenship.

I could see your point if CPP was only available to those holding Canadian citizenship. But that is not the case. Another example with both PR and Canadian having same benefits here.

 

[screech339]

Wow. Why so many people are completely blinded.

1. "You do realize that PR can collect CPP while as PR"
The point is not who can collect CPP. Its very clear a PR, citizen or even a temp worker (who returns without his/her PR) collects CPP. But a temp worker who never wanted to be part of CPP is forced to be part of CPP. And this is completely wrong.

2.Again nothing to do with collecting pre-PR days towards citizenship.
Its only logical that if pre-PR days have no claim towards citizenship, in the same breath, pre-PR contributions cannot be forced down temp workers throat. Now dont mask the CPP payments as tax and everybody pays tax logic, as its completely flawed. Only temp workers who wilfully want to contribute should contribute.

I can see your argument that CPP is not a tax. In a sense it is not. Unfortunately, the government can claim excess funds and use it as for their own purposes. example. Liberal government raided the EI funds to pay towards the debt. Once the government can use the funds for anything other than it intended use, it is basically a tax. CPP funds can be taken by government for other purposes as well. So for the moment, CPP is a form of tax deduction that is not truly a tax.

 

[CanadianCountry]

It shouldnt matter how the govt is using those funds or raiding it early for other reasons. For payees paying into the system it has only one meaning, its their payment into govt pension plan and based on the payments retirement pension is paid out.

In similar logic, your savings deposit in a bank is not really a deposit. The banks uses that money for many other uses. For the bank the money might be fungible, but for the account holder the account has only one meaning.

I can see your argument that CPP is not a tax. In a sense it is not. Unfortunately, the government can claim excess funds and use it as for their own purposes. example. Liberal government raided the EI funds to pay towards the debt. Once the government can use the funds for anything other than it intended use, it is basically a tax. CPP funds can be taken by government for other purposes as well. So for the moment, CPP is a form of tax deduction that is not truly a tax.