Did it really worth it?

[Hopefulagain]

Messenger: You said it beautifully, people need to try to adjust to living in Canada.

I lived in India for 5 years with my husband and even gave birth to one of our children there. And I am so glad I had that experience because now I will be able to understand how my husband will feel once he lands here and moves here permanently. It's not easy to move from your home regardless of the circumstances of that country.

But having lived in India for that amount of time, I can truly say how thankful I am to be here. Canada is by no means perfect, but boy is it nice to not have scheduled power cuts for 2-4 hours every day. And not having to fear every time my child gets a mosquito bite that it isn't typhoid or malaria. And not having having a panic attack when my son drinks his bathwater for fear of a severe diarrhea or worse because of it.
Also, how nice it is to go out and take walks with my children. Something so so simple. Trying to push a stroller down the busy chaotic pot holed roads was not easy. Never mind the starring. Constant eyes on me and the kids was so uncomfortable.
Clean air, health care (though I have my problems with that a little sometimes here). Being able to put my kids into a variety of extra-curricular activities. "Free" education (to put my child in a good international school in India would have cost a minimum $3500 a year). I say "free" because i know we pay a tax for this. But still.

These are important things not only for me, but for my husband as well, and I am thankful to him for the sacrifice he is making (to leave his family and home country) in order to be with me and our children, and to provide a better life for them.
It was a long process but we know that the good things outweigh this time we waited. And in 5 years from now those 9 months of waiting will be such a tiny amount of time.

I am sorry your husband got rejected (without an interview which seems very odd and unfair to me). I hope you find a way to be together in Canada some day.

WOW! you sound like one of those spoilt people who always find something to complain about everything. Agreed that as a country India does have its misses but there are many plus points too. You just were too obsessed with your crankiness to see them. From your post it just seems that you were the person having problems with everything. Have you lived in Hamilton, ON? Have you driven thro streets of Toronto suburbs? Do you drink tap water in Canada or do you buy water bottles from the store even here? You are one of those people who will find faults with stuff where ever u r.

 

[tejasmunro]

In lot of cases its not worth it.

There are well qualified immigrant Phd's , Engineers , doc's driving cabs, doing pizza delivery, security guard, low level retail jobs etc.

If you had or have a good life back home , then there is no point in coming here .

I know quite a few people who have gone back after coming here , utterly disappointed.

Most people come here for the future of their children and sacrifice their own life in that process ..and lead a miserable life over here.

Some come here for the FREE medicare , which unfortunately is deteriorating day by day .

In short , Canada is NOT the land of milk and honey or paradise most immigrants think it is ..the reality is quite different and immigrants should be prepared for it

There are pros and cons ..advantages and disadvantages of coming here ..so you have to do the math, and decide for yourself , if its worth it or not.

Expect lot of sacrifices , struggles and compromises when you come here ..its not a cake walk , when you land here.

Some immigrants make it over here and are successful ..but most don't .

Call me negative or pessimestic or whatever , but this is the cold hard truth ..so would be immigrants should be mentally , physically , psychologically and emotionally prepared for this.

Loneliness , Isolation , Depression , Poverty , Unemployment , Underemployment , Racism/Discrimination ( not directly but indirectly in a subtle manner )..are huge problems for immigrants , who come here..so be ready and prepared for it.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

In lot of cases its not worth it.

There are well qualified immigrant Phd's , Engineers , doc's driving cabs, doing pizza delivery, security guard, low level retail jobs etc.

If you had or have a good life back home , then there is no point in coming here .

I know quite a few people who have gone back after coming here , utterly disappointed.

Most people come here for the future of their children and sacrifice their own life in that process ..and lead a miserable life over here.

Some come here for the FREE medicare , which unfortunately is deteriorating day by day .

In short , Canada is NOT the land of milk and honey or paradise most immigrants think it is ..the reality is quite different and immigrants should be prepared for it

There are pros and cons ..advantages and disadvantages of coming here ..so you have to do the math, and decide for yourself , if its worth it or not.

Expect lot of sacrifices , struggles and compromises when you come here ..its not a cake walk , when you land here.

Some immigrants make it over here and are successful ..but most don't .

Call me negative or pessimestic or whatever , but this is the cold hard truth ..so would be immigrants should be mentally , physically , psychologically and emotionally prepared for this.

Loneliness , Isolation , Depression , Poverty , Unemployment , Underemployment , Racism/Discrimination ( not directly but indirectly in a subtle manner )..are huge problems for immigrants , who come here..so be ready and prepared for it.

A little melodramatic but some points are valid.

Professionals who are coming here should already be aware that they will need to update there qualifications to meet Canadian standards. This may require writing exams or even going back to school for a year or two. Some provinces may offer bridging programmes/low or no interest loans to help professional newcomers find work in their field. It is essential that the newcomer understand that they will still be competing for those same jobs that Canadian professionals will be applying for so look for areas of the country where people do not want to move to and go there. Professionals with 5 years or more of experience in their field have an advantage so long as they can get their qualifications updated.

Those who rely on family ties will find it very difficult to adjust. You would have to be open to meeting new people and making new friends of all different ethnicities. While racism does exist on a minimal scale the most common problem is self imposed xenophobia. Immigrants seeking only those things and people from their own culture. The more diverse you are with your acquaintances the more chance you have to be exposed to opportunities.

 

[keesio]

In lot of cases its not worth it.

There are well qualified immigrant Phd's , Engineers , doc's driving cabs, doing pizza delivery, security guard, low level retail jobs etc.

If you had or have a good life back home , then there is no point in coming here .

I know quite a few people who have gone back after coming here , utterly disappointed.

Most people come here for the future of their children and sacrifice their own life in that process ..and lead a miserable life over here.

Some come here for the FREE medicare , which unfortunately is deteriorating day by day .

In short , Canada is NOT the land of milk and honey or paradise most immigrants think it is ..the reality is quite different and immigrants should be prepared for it

There are pros and cons ..advantages and disadvantages of coming here ..so you have to do the math, and decide for yourself , if its worth it or not.

Expect lot of sacrifices , struggles and compromises when you come here ..its not a cake walk , when you land here.

Some immigrants make it over here and are successful ..but most don't .

Call me negative or pessimestic or whatever , but this is the cold hard truth ..so would be immigrants should be mentally , physically , psychologically and emotionally prepared for this.

Loneliness , Isolation , Depression , Poverty , Unemployment , Underemployment , Racism/Discrimination ( not directly but indirectly in a subtle manner )..are huge problems for immigrants , who come here..so be ready and prepared for it.

Lot of good points. The transition is especially hard if you already had a good life back home. But for people who had a very hard time back home, Canada certainly can provide more opportunities and is worth the transition. I would say that for a large amount of immigrants coming to Canada, the primary reason is economic. So if the economic part doesn't work out, you are bound to be disappointed.

But to say there is no point in coming to Canada if you had a good life is a little extreme. I was doing well back home. Here, I have less earning potential and pay more taxes on top of it. I came to Canada because on my visits I found that I liked it and decided I wanted to move here. 13 years later I am quite happy here, I feel Canadian, and I sponsored my wife to join me. Of course coming from the US, culture shock is a lot less than people from other countries and no language barrier (etc).

True, it can be very tough for a new immigrant. But people are still fighting tooth and nail to get to Canada, some by any means necessary. For all its blemishes, it is still quite a welcoming place, especially compared to most places in the world.

 

[frege]

If you are white and came to Canada young enough that you speak English or French without an accent (or if you're from an English-speaking country), and you don't wear any outward signs of a non-Christian religion, then all the same doors will be open to you as to Canadians.

But most immigrants will probably face some degree of discrimination. It may be more or less depending on various factors. It will be less for your children than for you.

Both my parents were immigrants, but they were white, which is why I think it never made any difference in my life. I love my country, but I'm ashamed that we don't do more to guarantee equality to the people we welcome here and who contribute so much to our economy and our lives.

 

[keesio]

I'm not white but the rest does apply to me being born in the US and non-religious. I'm sure it helps a lot that I ended up in Toronto, being so diverse as it is.

Of course as you said, my parents had more of a struggle adapting to the US. They moved back to their home country after retirement (South Korea)

 

[frege]

I'm not white but the rest does apply to me being born in the US and non-religious. I'm sure it helps a lot that I ended up in Toronto, being so diverse as it is.

Of course as you said, my parents had more of a struggle adapting to the US. They moved back to their home country after retirement (South Korea)

I have a Ukrainian-Canadian friend from Toronto. He moved to Canada when he was 15, in the mid-nineties. He says that in school the kids with foreign accents couldn't really be friends with the Canadian-born ones. So all his high school friends were immigrants. Granted, high school is worse for this stuff than the adult world, but I do think it's significant.

This is why I think it's really hypocritical when English- or French-speaking Canadians criticize minority groups for supposedly forming ghettos.

 

[tejasmunro]

A little melodramatic but some points are valid.

Professionals who are coming here should already be aware that they will need to update there qualifications to meet Canadian standards. This may require writing exams or even going back to school for a year or two. Some provinces may offer bridging programmes/low or no interest loans to help professional newcomers find work in their field. It is essential that the newcomer understand that they will still be competing for those same jobs that Canadian professionals will be applying for so look for areas of the country where people do not want to move to and go there. Professionals with 5 years or more of experience in their field have an advantage so long as they can get their qualifications updated.

Those who rely on family ties will find it very difficult to adjust. You would have to be open to meeting new people and making new friends of all different ethnicities. While racism does exist on a minimal scale the most common problem is self imposed xenophobia. Immigrants seeking only those things and people from their own culture. The more diverse you are with your acquaintances the more chance you have to be exposed to opportunities.

Not melodramatic at all and most points are valid ..not some.

Getting your qualifications updated to Canadian standards is not as easy as writing a few exams and going back to school for a year or two..its a much longer process than that if you are a well qualified professional.
And who is going to pay the bills , while you are doing this ..thst's why most immigrants end up taking survival jobs and get stuck there . Its a vicious cycle.

Plus the quality of education in lot of countries is much higher and better than what's offered in Canada..so this meeting Canadian standards is a joke . I have seen the syllabus and curriculum in other countries , which is much higher than the so called Canadian standards ! Why do you think the immigrant student's who come over here excel in schools over here as compared to Canadian students ?..because their basics and foundation is much higher.

I have met engineers , doctors etc from other countries , who were far more knowledgeable than their Canadian counterparts ..who studied in these so called Canadian standard schools ..lol

Self imposed Xenophobia exists because lot of these immigrants were never accepted in the main stream by their Canadian counterparts due to subtle indirect racism and discrimination ..its not that they did not try to integrate into the mainstream .

Most are open to mixing with other people and ethnicities , but get shut out ..hence they stick to their own and its not the other way round.

You want immigrants to move to places where no one else wants to go to ..lol..you mean like second class citizens ?..there is a reason , why no one wants to go there ..lol. Maybe they should also do jobs which no one wants to do , like the locals over here ..well actually they are doing that anyways

 

[on-hold]

WOW! you sound like one of those spoilt people who always find something to complain about everything. Agreed that as a country India does have its misses but there are many plus points too. You just were too obsessed with your crankiness to see them. From your post it just seems that you were the person having problems with everything. Have you lived in Hamilton, ON? Have you driven thro streets of Toronto suburbs? Do you drink tap water in Canada or do you buy water bottles from the store even here? You are one of those people who will find faults with stuff where ever u r.

Sorry, but when you live in a country for five years, you acquire the right to criticize it. Furthermore, it seems that her husband agrees with her, because they're coming over to Canada. And if you're comparing a Toronto traffic jam with an Asian megacity, that's called a bad-faith argument -- I've seen both, and the Toronto traffic jam compares to the other like a country breeze to a Class 5 tornado.

I drink tap water, by the way.

 

[frege]

Plus the quality of education in lot of countries is much higher and better than what's offered in Canada..so this meeting Canadian standards is a joke . I have seen the syllabus and curriculum in other countries , which is much higher than the so called Canadian standards ! Why do you think the immigrant student's who come over here excel in schools over here as compared to Canadian students ?..because their basics and foundation is much higher.

I think you're comparing apples and oranges. Of course, I've met people from Russia, China, France, Japan, etc., who have an excellent education. But you can't compare the elite from these countries (which do have elitist education systems) with normal everyday Canadians. Probably the kinds of people you've met from these countries are not the same as the kinds of Canadians you've met. The curriculum in these countries is often an ideal level that few students actually achieve. The immigrant students you're talking about were among the lucky ones to receive a good education in their country - their parents who emigrate are not representative of the entire population. I think if you studied Canadian students abroad whose parents work as executives, engineers or diplomats, you would find the same thing.

If you look at the scores on the international PISA assessment, you will see that Canada compares very favourably with other countries. For example, Quebec scores higher in math than Japan and every country in Europe. Canada as a whole is quite close to Japan.

Source: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-590-x/2010001/tbl/tblb2.1-eng.htm

In reading, the results for Canada are better than for every European country except Finland.

Source: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-590-x/2010001/tbl/tblb1.1-eng.htm

(The results for China are specific to Shanghai - I don't know how you can compare Canada, with a 99% literacy rate, and China, with 92%.)

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

Not melodramatic at all and most points are valid ..not some.

Getting your qualifications updated to Canadian standards is not as easy as writing a few exams and going back to school for a year or two..its a much longer process than that if you are a well qualified professional.

Plus the quality of education in lot of countries is much higher and better than what's offered in Canada..so this meeting Canadian standards is a joke . I have seen the syllabus and curriculum in other countries , which is much higher than the so called Canadian standards ! Why do you think the immigrant student's who come over here excel in schools over here as compared to Canadian students ?..because their basics and foundation is much higher.

I have met engineers , doctors etc from other countries , who were far more knowledgeable than their Canadian counterparts ..who studied in these so called Canadian standard schools ..lol

Self imposed Xenophobia exists because lot of these immigrants were never accepted in the main stream by their Canadian counterparts due to subtle indirect racism and discrimination ..its not that they tried to integrate into the mainstream .

Most are open to mixing with other people and ethnicities , but get shut out ..hence they stick to their own and its not the other way round.

You want immigrants to move to places where no one else wants to go to ..lol..you mean like second class citizens ?..there is a reason , why no one wants to go there ..lol. Maybe they should also do jobs which no one wants to do , like the locals over here ..well actually they are doing that anyways

You're an idiot. Your points are anecdotal at best. The reality is far different. New immigrants do not mix in with the established demographic. Why? Because they feel more comfortable being around all things familiar. The worst thing any new immigrant can do it move into the "ghettos" new immigrants create for themselves. All major Canadian cities are far more diverse and open than any other cities abroad.

As for foreign professionals...you may have met some but I am married to one. There are many programmes specific to helping foreign nationals establish themselves here. Unfortunately they rely on the advice of others from their own countries to give them advice. They do not come informed or prepared. A medical professional would have to go back to university for 2 years to get their Canadian equivalency. Engineers.... it takes at least a year. 80% of the jobs available to professionals in their field are not advertised on Workopolis etc. You have to be a member of the association for that field to get access to the jobs.

While I would agree that our public school system is lacking our post secondary education is the best in the world. You have 10's of 1000's of foreign students applying to universities to get the best education possible. How many Canadian kids are applying to Indian, Chinese or Filipino universities to get their degrees? Hard to believe the parents of these kids would spend their life savings to send them to Canadian universities to get an education worse then what they would receive at home.

Moving to places like Regina, Saskatoon, Winnipeg are not treating them like second class citizens. It means that they have a better chance of success then competing for jobs in Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa and Montreal. Life in Winnipeg while much colder in the winter is a much better quality of life than living in Toronto from pay cheque to pay cheque. "Racism", "discrimination" exists everywhere but there are laws and policies in place to protect those that are victims of it. Never heard of affirmative action? Never read the addendum at the end of most employers job ads stating that they are equal opportunity employers? That they strongly advise women and members or a visible minority to apply? The second most spoken language in Winnipeg is Tagalog. There are Filipino councillors and MP's. So its very disingenuous to submit your own ignorant opinion as fact.

 

[on-hold]

You're an idiot. Your points are anecdotal at best. The reality is far different. New immigrants do not mix in with the established demographic. Why? Because they feel more comfortable being around all things familiar. The worst thing any new immigrant can do it move into the "ghettos" new immigrants create for themselves. All major Canadian cities are far more diverse and open than any other cities abroad.

As for foreign professionals...you may have met some but I am married to one. There are many programmes specific to helping foreign nationals establish themselves here. Unfortunately they rely on the advice of others from their own countries to give them advice. They do not come informed or prepared. A medical professional would have to go back to university for 2 years to get their Canadian equivalency. Engineers.... it takes at least a year. 80% of the jobs available to professionals in their field are not advertised on Workopolis etc. You have to be a member of the association for that field to get access to the jobs.

While I would agree that our public school system is lacking our post secondary education is the best in the world. You have 10's of 1000's of foreign students applying to universities to get the best education possible. How many Canadian kids are applying to Indian, Chinese or Filipino universities to get their degrees? Hard to believe the parents of these kids would spend their life savings to send them to Canadian universities to get an education worse then what they would receive at home.

Moving to places like Regina, Saskatoon, Winnipeg are not treating them like second class citizens. It means that they have a better chance of success then competing for jobs in Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa and Montreal. Life in Winnipeg while much colder in the winter is a much better quality of life than living in Toronto from pay cheque to pay cheque. "Racism", "discrimination" exists everywhere but there are laws and policies in place to protect those that are victims of it. Never heard of affirmative action? Never read the addendum at the end of most employers job ads stating that they are equal opportunity employers? That they strongly advise women and members or a visible minority to apply? The second most spoken language in Winnipeg is Tagalog. There are Filipino councillors and MP's. So its very disingenuous to submit your own ignorant opinion as fact.

Everything here is correct, with the exception of the first sentence, which has a strong chance of being true but ultimately is a matter of opinion.

I'd like to just make one more point -- arguing about the 'quality' of a professional education is partly beside the point. Sure, professionals in other countries have high standards; but there is not one Platonic ideal of a 'professional' education. For example, nurses in Thailand have high technical standards -- but, they are not trained to question a doctor's order. Nurses in Canada are expected to be the patient's advocate, and protect them from the doctor. Much retraining that professionals have to experience is not technical, but to turn them into the sort of professional that Canada expects. This is not something that can be achieved simply by going through a 'high quality' program in a foreign land.

 

[frege]

How many Canadian kids are applying to Indian, Chinese or Filipino universities to get their degrees? Hard to believe the parents of these kids would spend their life savings to send them to Canadian universities to get an education worse then what they would receive at home.

I think for the few Chinese who are accepted into university, they receive an absolutely first-rate education. Most Canadians probably don't have the language skills to make it at a Chinese university, and obviously conditions are generally better in a developed country, which explains why Canadians stay at home. India also has excellent universities. Unfortunately, there is a bias towards first-world institutions in terms of prestige. This is mostly because people don't know about universities in these countries, not because they're not good.

Generally, I think it's undeniable that non-white people face considerable discrimination in Canada. At equal education levels, non-white immigrants earn less than whites. In fact, their Canadian-born children also earn less:

Default explanations like “it takes a while for immigrants to integrate” don’t bear out. Even when you control for age and education, the data show first generationracialized Canadian men earn only 68.7% of what non-racialized first-generation Canadian men earn, indicating a colour code is firmly at play in the labour market.

[...]

The colour code persists for second generation Canadians with similar education and age. The gap narrows, with racialized women making 56.5 cents per dollar non-racialized men earn; while racialized men earn 75.6 cents for every dollar non-racialized men in this cohort earn.

Source: http://www.policyalternatives.ca/sites/default/files/uploads/publications/National%20Office/2011/03/Colour%20Coded%20Labour%20Market.pdf

 

[truesmile]

I'm surprised someone has yet to point out that being of white descent and bearing no outward appearance of a non-Christian religion is FAST becoming the "invisible minority" and thus not eligible and/or are too quickly discarded as applicants for employment by many or all the "equal opportunity employers" (cough-ederal cjobsugh) noted previously.

 

[frege]

I'm surprised someone has yet to point out that being of white descent and bearing no outward appearance of a non-Christian religion is FAST becoming the "invisible minority" and thus not eligible and/or are too quickly discarded as applicants for employment by many or all the "equal opportunity employers" (cough-ederal cjobsugh) noted previously.

In 2013, white applicants are at a tremendous advantage if you look at the labour market as a whole. This is demonstrated by the fact that at equal education levels, even Canadian-born non-white men earn considerably less than white men (24% less).

Any equal opportunity programs that exist don't manage to level the playing field overall.

In the federal public service, visible minorities continue to be underrepresented. They are even more underrepresented at the executive level. See this Senate report for the statistics:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/403/huma/rep/rep02jun10-e.pdf