what about the note that if you were in your country of origin before becoming a permanent resident and that falls in the 4 years period, you don't need to submit a police certificate?
yea i knew it existed but i submitted a police certificate anyway when i applied, cause i know they might do it.
Responding here where this subject is on-topic, to offer some clarification, rather than in the thread where posted where PCCs are at best a remote tangent.
This is
not about whether
@omarnabsws needed to submit a PCC. In regards to that approach taken, pre-emptively providing a PCC "
anyway," it is worth noting I totally agree that is a good idea (if not too inconvenient) for any applicant who checks "
yes" for question 10.b) even if they think the exception for country of origin applies.
I recognize MOST understand what is asked and required in regards to question 10.b) & providing a PCC. This includes providing a PCC with the application (if required pursuant to the instructions), as well as recognizing that EVEN IF a PCC is NOT required with the application (and even if one is included with the application), ANY applicant can be asked to submit a PCC (even if not in another country for 183 days or more).
But there is still enough confusion or misunderstanding about this and who should include a PCC with the application, it seems worth repeating some clarifications and reminders.
Some Clarifications and/or Reminders:
Much of this is not implicated by what is quoted above from the posts by either
@KhalRef or
@omarnabsws, but again is offered as clarification and a reminder.
Validity of PCC:
If the applicant needs to submit a PCC, either with the application or later, in response to a request for a PCC, the PCC should be an original AND also be EITHER one that was issued AFTER the last time the applicant was in that country, OR a PCC that was issued within the previous six months.
A clarifying nuance: it is readily apparent, from anecdotal reporting, this is NOT always strictly enforced. This is not to suggest it is OK, let alone a good idea, to test this. This is to caution that reports from applicants who say they submitted a copy or a PCC that was issued before their last time in that country, and for them it was OK, does NOT mean it will be OK for someone else. It might be. It might not be. As I often reiterate, if in doubt, follow the instructions; otherwise, yep, follow the instructions.
Typical example: apart from who fits an exception, and does not need to provide a PCC, for those who still should submit a PCC for the country they were in prior to coming to Canada, it appears quite a few applicants submit a copy of the PCC they submitted with their PR visa application, EVEN if in addition to that not being an original, it is a PCC issued more than six months previously (obviously) and issued BEFORE the applicant's last time in that country. It appears that SOMETIMES this suffices. There is NO GUARANTEE, however, it will suffice.
Potential Request for PCC During Processing:
As noted, even if a citizenship applicant is not required to submit a PCC with the application, as specified in the instructions,
ANY applicant may be asked to provide a PCC later, during processing of the application. This does not appear to happen often UNLESS the applicant should have submitted a PCC but did not (such as in the OP's case, where the application was complete but the explanation was insufficient or not valid, so the OP received a request for a PCC following AOR).
BUT to be clear,
IRCC can ask any applicant to provide a PCC . . . which practically could be for any country the applicant spent any time in during the preceding four years . . . and it could be way fewer than 183 days. There is NO sign this is common, however, and it appears to be
NOT likely unless the amount of time in the other country is relatively close to six months.
Suggestion: any applicant confident they do not need to provide a PCC with the application, BUT who spent a lot of time in another country during the preceding four years, it is OK to make the application without submitting a PCC,
BUT a good idea to initiate the process to obtain one to have to submit later if requested, to minimize potential delays if a PCC is requested. OR, as
@omarnabsws did, simply pre-emptively include a PCC with the application.
NO Need to Submit PCC Versus How to Answer Question 10.b) :
I think it is important to clarify and remember that even if the prospective citizenship applicant positively concludes they do not need to submit a PCC, that has NO relevance in how they respond to the question in 10.b (looking at current and previous version of CIT 0002). The appropriate response to question 10.b is a simple fact: yes or no, was the applicant in another country for 183 or more days in a row during the four years preceding the date of the application.
Thus, for example, for a PR who never left Canada after landing, after arriving here, who elects to proceed with an application two or three months after reaching the three years presence threshold, and who was in their country of origin (or, actually, any other particular country) prior to coming here, they need to check "yes" they were in another country for 183 or more days in a row during the preceding four years, and then list that country, and they do not need to submit a PCC . . . so assuming they are not submitting a PCC, they need to state an "explanation" which can be a simple "was in country of origin before becoming a PR."
In particular: if the prospective applicant was in another country for 183 or more days in a row within the four years preceding the date of the application for citizenship, the proper answer to question 10.b) is YES. Yes, because as a matter of fact the applicant was in another country for 183 or more days in a row . . . EVEN if the applicant otherwise confidently concludes they do not need to include a PCC with the application. A "yes" answer requires the applicant to list the country in the chart, and as of the 10-2020 version of CIT 0002 requires the applicant to indicate, yes or no, whether a PCC is being submitted, and if not, to provide an explanation . . . which can be either an explanation that a PCC cannot be obtained or reference to an applicable exception, such as the time in the other country was in the applicant's country of origin.
Leading to . . .
Country of Origin Exception and Example 1:
There is some uncertainty about how the "
country of origin" exception works. For example, there is some question about whether "
country of origin" means the individual's home country, that is their country of nationality, or means the country the individual was living in prior to obtaining status and coming to Canada.
It does
not matter whether "
country of origin" actually means home country or not
IF since landing the applicant has NOT returned to the country they were in before becoming a PR AND they submitted a PCC for that country during the process of becoming a PR. This is "
Example 1" (examples are currently only set out in the Guide, but were also included in a drop down in previous fillable pdf versions of CIT 0002, prior to the 10-2020 version).
It is worth noting that Example 1 is, more or less, an application of the general principle that a PCC suffices if the individual has not been in that country since the PCC was issued. The PCC submitted with the PR application is deemed sufficient . . . to be precise, typically the PR will have remained in that country, where they were living prior to getting a Canadian visa and coming to Canada to live, some period of time after the PCC was issued. So that PCC is not exactly one issued before the individual's last time in that country. Pretty obvious IRCC considers this close enough.
There is an open question about whether Example 1 is about or otherwise applies to the "
note" in the application, which states:
"If you were in your country or territory of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada and this time falls within this four (4) year period, you are not required to provide a police certificate. Please indicate this in the explanation box."
Either way, the "
country of origin" ONLY applies if the six months spent in that country was BEFORE the PR landed and became a PR. This goes back to the OP's example. There is no doubt, if AFTER landing a PR returns to the home country for six months, and that time period is within the four years prior to applying for citizenship, a PCC should be included with the application. This appears to trip up more than a few applicants, and I agree the wording of the note in the application is at least awkward (reads like something I wrote), but again there is no doubt: the exception ONLY applies if the six months in the home country was BEFORE the PR landed.
