Conditional Visa's - It's Happening!

[rocky272727]

See the following link:

http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2011/2011-03-26/html/notice-avis-eng.html#d114

Official publication will occur tomorrow. You have 30 days to get your comments in. This is what the government is actually proposing:

Description

Citizenship and Immigration Canada proposes to introduce amendments to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations specifying that, under the family class or the spouse and common-law in Canada class, a spouse or a common-law or conjugal partner who is in a relationship of two years or less with their sponsor at the time of sponsorship application would be subject to a period of conditional permanent residence. The condition would require that the sponsored spouse or partner remain in a bona fide relationship with their sponsor for a period of two years or more following receipt of their permanent residence status in Canada. Only cases targeted for fraud would be reviewed during the conditional period. Permanent residence could be revoked (leading to initiation of removal) if the condition of remaining in a bona fide relationship was not met. For all other cases, the condition would be automatically lifted after the specified conditional period had elapsed. Beyond the requirement to satisfy the condition, the conditional permanent residence would not differ from permanent residence.

Given concerns about the vulnerability of spouses and partners in abusive relationships, a process for allowing bona fide spouses and partners in such situations to come forward without facing enforcement action would be developed if a conditional permanent residence period were introduced.

People who commit fraud it is a good rule for them, and they are going to make more strict rules for other categories. It shouldn't affect genuine cases since Conditional PR will be the same for benefits and others except the PR revocation condition in case of fraud.

 

[valy79]

Whoever told you that Family Class was more straight forward was crazy. It's the LEAST straight forward (other than refugee or H&C) because it's subjective. The economic classes are not, with more clearly defined rules and procedures in the legislation, more of a pass/fail system. FC can be faster at times but not always.

Haha, everybody did (including a friend of my fiance who used to work as an immigration lawyer...)
I guess the main point was that I was told that CIC would not be able to turn me down as a member of the family class, but for economic classes I could be refused just because there is limited numbers of skilled workers being let into Canada etc. So it would be more erratic. So, I was in essence told the exact opposite than what you are telling me. Oh well, too late....
I was hoping that CIC would take the fact that I would qualify as Experience Class into account when working on our Spousal application, and that it would go through fast. Doesn't seem like it. I did get the "interview wiaved/no dus needed" IA though, so hoping it'll go through before they implement the conditional PRs

 

[newlife23]

I still don't understand about this new regulation despite reading all the comments. Is this going to affect outland common law/spouse PR applicationa at all? I am applying outland but am still in Canada. So where does landed comes in for Temp PR to come into effect?

 

[_696_]

You will land when u receive ur PR if u applied outland but stayed in Canada.

 

[fleo]

IMO the two years would start at the time of landing - start date of the PR card.

Yes, to lift the condition. But what would be the criteria for a relationship lasting 2 years or more BEFORE applying? Married? Living together? Something else?

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[_696_]

Well 'tis about conditional VISAS not conditional couples...

 

[rjessome]

I still don't understand about this new regulation despite reading all the comments. Is this going to affect outland common law/spouse PR applicationa at all? I am applying outland but am still in Canada. So where does landed comes in for Temp PR to come into effect?

It doesn't. Even though you are in Canada as a temporary resident, you still must "land" as a PR once the visa is issued. The amount of time you spent as a temporary resident in Canada will have no effect on the imposing of conditions for a PR in the Family class UNLESS, at the time you applied, you had either already been living together as a common-law couple for 2 years or more or had been married for two years or more.

And it will affect ALL spousal/common-law/conjugal applications, both inland and outland.

 

[rjessome]

Haha, everybody did (including a friend of my fiance who used to work as an immigration lawyer...)
I guess the main point was that I was told that CIC would not be able to turn me down as a member of the family class, but for economic classes I could be refused just because there is limited numbers of skilled workers being let into Canada etc. So it would be more erratic. So, I was in essence told the exact opposite than what you are telling me. Oh well, too late....
I was hoping that CIC would take the fact that I would qualify as Experience Class into account when working on our Spousal application, and that it would go through fast. Doesn't seem like it. I did get the "interview wiaved/no dus needed" IA though, so hoping it'll go through before they implement the conditional PRs

I'm sorry you got, IMHO, incomplete advice. See the thing is, you must be ACCEPTED as a member of the Family Class. If they don't believe your relationship is genuine, then you are NOT a member of the family class. So even though you would qualify under another category, you still must meet the criteria for the category in which you applied because that is the ONLY criteria they will consider. They don't look at it like, "Well we may as well approve her under this category because she's eligible for another." You make a choice of how to be assessed when you select your category and that is how they proceed. And for CEC, unlike the federal skilled worker program, there are no CAP numbers in place.

It also sounds to me like speed was an issue for you. Typically, FC cases processed in Buffalo are going to be faster than CEC. That's true. And assuming you had a very strong case for the FC sponsorship, you may have made the right choice for you. But another factor that I don't know if you and your fiance considered is that by applying under FC, your sponsor will be financially responsible for you for 3 years from the date of your landing as a PR. In CEC, there is nothing like that as you are applying on your own merits and would be responsible for yourself. Obviously it's not something you and your partner ever anticipate to be an issue but it is a factor to consider as well.

In your case, it certainly looks like all will be well. Just waiting to get through the red tape. But the above is good advice for anyone in a similar situation to yours who needs to decide which route to take with immigration when they have more than one choice. They still may make the same choice but it's good to be able to weigh all the pros and cons of each. I see that you tried to get advice but given that immigration law changes so frequently and that the lawyer no longer practises in this area, he/she may not have been up to date and what is currently going on.

No regrets. Everything looks good for you. But now you know more and might be able to give information to another person with similar circumstances.

 

[Material]

Ok so what about common law relationships?
We know that when a couple is married and they get a divorce before the two year conditional time passes the PR would be revoked (at least this is what I know so far unless there is another process where the couple would have to prove their ties together are still valid and their relationship is ongoing after the two years)

but what about common law ? how would CIC know that the relationship is still valid ?? not that I know much about common law relationships but I dont think there are leagal documents that tie the couple together(once broken or changed the PR would be revoked) so how would CIC base their jugdment unless again the couple would have to submit new proof of their ongoing relationship and so on .........

 

[rjessome]

It's not that simple Material. CIC will have to define the type of mechanisms (including proof) that it will accept for removal of conditions. Even if someone is still married, that doesn't mean they are living together in a conjugal relationship.

For example, let's say a person in a CL relationship sponsors their partner and the partner is accepted and lands with conditions attached. The couple breaks up after 1 year in Canada together. At the 2 year point from the date of landing, there will be some sort of mechanism for conditions to be removed from the visa. We don't know what this will look like yet but for a CL couple, one could assume that it means continuing to live together, joint bank accounts, bills going to the same address, etc. It "could" involve both parties swearing a Statutory Declaration stating they are still in the relationship. We are just NOT sure what the government intends to use to remove conditions. However, the caveat that I see is that if the couple are no longer together, was it a marriage or relationship of convenience, used solely for the purposes of gaining immigration status in Canada? That's where this part could get really sticky. What if it wasn't? People break up for all kinds of reasons. Now one would hope that the sponsor would acknowledge that it wasn't an MOC but that they broke up for other reasons having nothing to do with immigration. But if the sponsor is bitter, then it could get ugly.

 

[Material]

What if it wasn't? People break up for all kinds of reasons. Now one would hope that the sponsor would acknowledge that it wasn't an MOC but that they broke up for other reasons having nothing to do with immigration. But if the sponsor is bitter, then it could get ugly.

I completely agree with this.

I just hope that whatever mechanisim they use wont be a lengthy one as it will for sure add burden to the CIC offices which will significantly increase processing times for other applications being in process.

 

[QCSunshine]

I dread the possibility of having to keep and store documents, receipts, and various "proof" of relationship items for 2 plus more years. Sigh.

 

[valy79]

I dread the possibility of having to keep and store documents, receipts, and various "proof" of relationship items for 2 plus more years. Sigh.

Me too : I already told my partner to keep all the receipts, just in case we have to go through that tiring process of evidence collection again. I really hope they are going to come up with something else/simpler though.

 

[Baloo]

I dread the possibility of having to keep and store documents, receipts, and various "proof" of relationship items for 2 plus more years. Sigh.

Don't Americans keep tax records and receipts longer?

 

[QCSunshine]

I think tax records are 7 years or something for the US, but I don't really know. I was imagining we would need "proof" like saved airline boarding passes for joint trips, receipts for major joint purchases, etc, to "prove" that the relationship is ongoing. Just in case we need it. And that stuff takes up space.