Conditional Visa's - It's Happening!

[missmini]

This is key...

Maybe those that do not "offer back", do not deserve to be in Canada?

Can Canada afford to support all the extended families that the current system allows?

Avoiding the politics, isn't this a public view rather than a government view (because the politicians always try and follow the public in an election)?




Note: I post this to provoke conversation.

good point! there should b mechanism in place for the ones who abuse the system, but complete ban on something should not be the way to go!! unfortunately much of the Canadian media sell only one side of the story and the Canadians in general do not look for different kinds of media to get the full picture...the picture they get is the picture the politicians want them to get...this is just from a personal view, i don't want to offend anyone

 

[Baloo]

unfortunately much of the Canadian media sell only one side of the story and the Canadians in general do not look for different kinds of media to get the full picture...the picture they get is the picture the politicians want them to get...this is just from a personal view, i don't want to offend anyone

I don't disagree with that

It seems like Mr harper is trying a bit too hard to manage the media
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/realitycheck/2011/04/oh-john-baird-he-stands-on-guard-for-harper.html

 

[bonbon9]

This is my opinion, and I'm not influenced by any media, it's only from reading information on CIC website and random posts here on this forum. I don't even watch TV or read the news online.. They depress me.

I agree that the doors should not be completely closed as I do think that hard working immigrants have done wonders for this country. However, I think all PRs should be able to be taken away and all visas to be "double-checked" after being granted and after a period of time. I know I know it's more money spent towards assessing applications and more time wasted but it's the safest way to go. If someone stops being a member of the family class, their PR should be revoked. If they find out someone lied about their FSW application let's say with a fake diploma, their PR should be revoked. But I don't think the doors should be well closed after that, they should be able to apply on another category.
I just think that Canada gives too much to the "wrong" people, I mean, hassle free work permit for spouses of students? Monthly money to refugees? Come on! I would rather see those opportunities and money well spent on projects that will actually do something for the already residents and citizens of this country.
And in my opinion, I would like my country to protect its citizens before any outsiders, because yes, that's what we are. It should be expected to see the country taking measures for their citizens FIRST. Canada protects anyone and their mother!

 

[valy79]

Maybe those that do not "offer back", do not deserve to be in Canada?
Can Canada afford to support all the extended families that the current system allows?

It's impossible for anybody to determine who "deserves" to be in Canada and who doesn't. How on earth would anybody be able to evaluate that? (besides that I personally don't believe in nationalist/"territorial" mindsets and think every single person in this world "deserves" to be at any place in this world; but that's just my opinion and I realize that a lot of people don't share it)

As for "affording" - Canada is not the only country who does that, look at European countries for example. Austria has a 100 times more extensive (and better) social system and seems to be able to afford it. I't not as if Canada had a huge population either, so I don't see the problem.

 

[Baloo]

It's impossible for anybody to determine who "deserves" to be in Canada and who doesn't. How on earth would anybody be able to evaluate that? (besides that I personally don't believe in nationalist/"territorial" mindsets and think every single person in this world "deserves" to be at any place in this world; but that's just my opinion and I realize that a lot of people don't share it)

Everyone's opinion is valid, like I said, I posted to provoke conversation

As for "affording" - Canada is not the only country who does that, look at European countries for example. Austria has a 100 times more extensive (and better) social system and seems to be able to afford it. I't not as if Canada had a huge population either, so I don't see the problem.


When talking to many Canadian citizens, I have found that many have very little real information about immigration.
Sadly, many do see immigrants who do not work (parents are in the list) as a cost on the system.
The medical experience for many people in Canada is based upon a lack of doctors in their community.
Clearly there is a far bigger picture than needs to be understood, but many folk never see more than their own experience.

 

[angelbrat]

It's impossible for anybody to determine who "deserves" to be in Canada and who doesn't. How on earth would anybody be able to evaluate that? (besides that I personally don't believe in nationalist/"territorial" mindsets and think every single person in this world "deserves" to be at any place in this world; but that's just my opinion and I realize that a lot of people don't share it)

As for "affording" - Canada is not the only country who does that, look at European countries for example. Austria has a 100 times more extensive (and better) social system and seems to be able to afford it. I't not as if Canada had a huge population either, so I don't see the problem.

How many immigrants does Austria let in a year?

 

[fleo]

Totally disagree. This leaves no room for gray area. What happens if your spouse dies? Does that mean if say you want to marry someone from your same culture.....or someone from your home country....you cannot do that because you cannot sponser them?

What happens if in life....things happen and say its a person who the marriage was real, and wonderful and later in life the spouse changes...or goes down the wrong path and the marriage cannot be saved. This means the person cannot marry anyone outside Canada...whether they fall in love or not??

Although I agree you do have a point, and things happen - sometimes without being anyone's fault - this kind of reasoning still bugs me. Being with someone and sponsoring someone are not one and the same. What, if you can't be together in Canada you can't be together at all? All this drama about 'uprooting' and 'making a life for yourself in Canada' .. coming from people who uprooted themselves from previously made lives in other countries... is rather entertaining

With that said, yes, I am aware that denying certain rights to a certain group of people based solely on the way they came into the country is unfair, unjust, unconstitutional and many other un-s; however, there should still be a certain limit.

For instance, you can't sponsor while on welfare. Wouldn't it also make sense that you can't sponsor while being sponsored yourself? Of course no one can really use their sponsor's money to bring a new partner to Canada, but a) it's a matter of principle, and b) it addresses the problem without calling anyone a dirty immigrant So, no sponsoring while being... undertaken?

 

[rjessome]

For instance, you can't sponsor while on welfare. Wouldn't it also make sense that you can't sponsor while being sponsored yourself? Of course no one can really use their sponsor's money to bring a new partner to Canada, but a) it's a matter of principle, and b) it addresses the problem without calling anyone a dirty immigrant So, no sponsoring while being... undertaken?

THIS is exactly what I want to see happen. 3 year undertaking = 3 year bar from being able to sponsor.

 

[Baloo]

THIS is exactly what I want to see happen. 3 year undertaking = 3 year bar from being able to sponsor.

That would please a lot of people, me included.

 

[valy79]

How many immigrants does Austria let in a year?

In 2009 it was about 108 000. Which I believe compares to about 200 000 to 250 000 in Canada?
Only that Austria is about 5 times smaller than Canada (population is about 8 million).

Austria (like most other European countries) gets a lot of immigrants (eg war refugees resulting from the civil war in former Yugoslavia and a lot of Turkish immigrants). And like Canada it is a much debated issue including slogans such as "Austria to Austrians" yada yada...

What really strikes me though is that Canada in essence is an immigration country, whereas Austria really isn't. Canada is such a young country, and how many generations back can a "real Canadian" really go before he gets to some ancestors who immigrated here? But still it seems to me that many Canadians have a negative attitude towards immigration/immigrants. Seems really strange to me.

 

[_696_]

That would please a lot of people, me included.

Me too

 

[Baloo]

.... And like Canada it is a much debated issue including slogans such as "Austria to Austrians" yada yada...

When I worked in Austria (for 2 years) the "much debated" topic was far more than just talked about, the government and the people had a real hard time of it.
Xenophobia was everywhere - ''overrun with foreigners'' and "Fortress Austria" were the main phrases, as far as I remember.

People want to defend what they have, it may not be nice (and I don't like it), but it is understandable why they think this way.

 

[valy79]

When I worked in Austria (for 2 years) the "much debated" topic was far more than just talked about, the government and the people had a real hard time of it.
Xenophobia was everywhere - ''overrun with foreigners'' and "Fortress Austria" were the main phrases, as far as I remember.

People want to defend what they have, it may not be nice (and I don't like it), but it is understandable why they think this way.

You are right (and frankly this is one reason why I like Canada, because although there is some xenophobia it is still way more multi-cultural and open-minded in this aspect). In my opinion all the "burqa bans" etc fall into the same category but that's a different story.
I realize that all this stems from fear and wanting to defend what they have, but that doesn't make it right in my opinion.

Anyway, and I think somebody (you?) brought this up earlier in the discussion - are we getting these new rules because they will actually improve the situation for anybody or are we getting them because some politicians are trying to get votes? I still have my doubts about the first one.

 

[rjessome]

The US has conditional visas for spouses. But does that cure marriage fraud? Nope. Here's a news story I read today:


DRUG ADDICTS RECRUITED FOR FAKE MARRIAGES
The Associated Press Posted: Apr 7, 2011 6:10 AM ET Last Updated: Apr 7, 2011 6:10 AM ET Read 7 comments7 Back to accessibility links
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A couple and their 30-year-old daughter from Santa Ana, Calif., have been arrested on charges of arranging fake marriages for more than 20 foreigners seeking ways to remain in the U.S., authorities say.

They were arrested early Wednesday at their home and are charged with conspiracy to commit visa fraud, federal prosecutors said.

In a 75-page affidavit, authorities said the three accused paid an associate at their immigration services company to recruit unemployed and low-income U.S. citizens — who were often homeless or drug addicts — to enter into the marriages.

The U.S. citizens were offered $2,000 for the ruse, but often weren't fully paid, court papers said.

Authorities said the trio charged as much as $60,000 US to arrange bogus marriages for foreigners who came to the country on visas, mostly from India.

Authorities said they used the same witnesses, and sometimes, the same U.S. citizen spouse, on multiple green card applications, and had the couple take photographs in different locations wearing different outfits to make it look like they had an ongoing relationship.

Immigration officers noticed the pattern and forwarded 21 similar-looking cases to investigators at Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

"They were just recycling marriage certificates. They were even using the same witnesses, a couple of applications had the same U.S. spouse," said Joseph Macias, who heads ICE's homeland security investigations in Orange County. "It got to the point where they didn't care. They thought they were just kind of above the law."

The mother and daughter entered not guilty pleas in Federal Court on Wednesday. The male accused was not in court because of a minor medical problem but will appear Thursday with his wife and daughter for a detention hearing.

To date, the U.S. citizens and foreigners who entered into the bogus marriages have not been charged. The investigation is ongoing, Macias said.

 

[valy79]

Interesting....

I still feel that if the main goal is to reduce cases of marriage fraud, CIC should rather invest in resources who actually deal with fraud committed by people who landed in Canada as PRs than imposing conditions of any sort. I am thinking of all these couples where sponsors are trying to appeal the PR decision because once their "beloved" came to Canada they realized that the only thing they were interested in was immigration and not the sponsor.

I realize that it is harder to get somebody out of the country than into the country, but I feel there would be a ton of potential in dealing properly with these cases (as far as I understand such an appeal doesn't get anybody anywhere right now, which is really tragic). An immigration officer can only guess if a marriage is genuine or not, whereas the actual spouse could (in most cases at least) do a much better job in that I would say (eg once the fraud is obvious).