Citizenship test: Collective action required, or expect endless delays, years. Example of the effective lobbyng of people awaiting spousal sponsorship

[sarafandee]

People of this forum, we have to keep the respect mutual. Throwing insults and accusations at each other serves no purpose. Everyone is entitled to their opinion even if we disagree with it completely. If you don't like someone else's opinion, simply ignore it. Now back to citizenship tests and IRCC employees. My information is based on someone I know who works there, and this is what she informed me:

- it is true that many IRCC employees are not working for quite some time, yet getting paid in full. They argue that offices do not have minimum conditions for them to get back while Covid is still there. There are rotation programs though among some of the employees to get things moving, but it is super slow. A lot of the efforts are being utilized in other areas, Covid related.
- that being said, the government has not yet had any serious discussion or plan regarding digitizing citizenship tests. Bottom line is citizenship tests are the least of their concerns, no matter the personal situations. All their focus is directed into Covid and related applications, nothing else.

So if this is the truth of what's really going on, then it is really worrying. Cases of covid keep rising, and there is no sign of them going down with winter on our doors. If the government does not want to consider any alternatives, then we are looking at delays of years. What makes matter worse is that they are planning to get more people in the next few years, which makes no sense given the huge backlog building up. The way I see it, they are pushing for more people to apply for citizenship so they make use of the applications money, while we wait indefinitely for anything to move.

Note: I applied in October 2017, and i am still not invited to a test. My PR expired, renewal seems to be delayed as well, and I haven't seen my family in almost three years now. Emotional stress can be as deadly as a Corona virus.

 

[deadbird]

People of this forum, we have to keep the respect mutual.

+1 Please focus everyone. Name calling and blaming each other is counter-productive.

 

[AshesNdust]

People of this forum, we have to keep the respect mutual. Throwing insults and accusations at each other serves no purpose. Everyone is entitled to their opinion even if we disagree with it completely. If you don't like someone else's opinion, simply ignore it. Now back to citizenship tests and IRCC employees. My information is based on someone I know who works there, and this is what she informed me:

- it is true that many IRCC employees are not working for quite some time, yet getting paid in full. They argue that offices do not have minimum conditions for them to get back while Covid is still there. There are rotation programs though among some of the employees to get things moving, but it is super slow. A lot of the efforts are being utilized in other areas, Covid related.
- that being said, the government has not yet had any serious discussion or plan regarding digitizing citizenship tests. Bottom line is citizenship tests are the least of their concerns, no matter the personal situations. All their focus is directed into Covid and related applications, nothing else.

So if this is the truth of what's really going on, then it is really worrying. Cases of covid keep rising, and there is no sign of them going down with winter on our doors. If the government does not want to consider any alternatives, then we are looking at delays of years. What makes matter worse is that they are planning to get more people in the next few years, which makes no sense given the huge backlog building up. The way I see it, they are pushing for more people to apply for citizenship so they make use of the applications money, while we wait indefinitely for anything to move.

Note: I applied in October 2017, and i am still not invited to a test. My PR expired, renewal seems to be delayed as well, and I haven't seen my family in almost three years now. Emotional stress can be as deadly as a Corona virus.

Thank you for the info. It is disheartening to hear that the offices haven’t been modified to prevent the workers from getting sick.

If the government doesn’t want to pursue the online testing, which I think is a major mistake, they should be updating the physical office space to accommodate in person testing and employee safety. The shear number of people the workers are exposed to on a weekly basis is kind of scary. Can you image? Let’s say 4 tests a day with 30 people each test, at the end of the week that means they are exposed to 600 people. At this point it sounds like employees should get hazmat suits and then reopen.
October 2017 and you never got a test date? Where you ever able to find out what the hold up was?

As for PR, card renewals are getting done. There are threads over in the PR forum with people posting their timelines. People are getting cards through both the urgency path as well as the regular. Mine was done in about 3 months. So, don’t hesitate to send a renewal in if you need one.
Very sorry to hear about your 3 years without seeing your family.

 

[piotrqc]

Thank you for sharing the testimony, @sarafandee !

What you are saying is consistent with what I have been trying to say for a long time.

The situation is really worrying. Actually.

In order to end our 'naysayers' here, we need to remember these few things:

* The Canadian charter of rights and freedoms guarantees us de jure, that is to say with the power of the law the freedom of words, expressions, demonstrations, gatherings, etc.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-15.html

Fundamental Freedoms
Marginal note:Fundamental freedoms
2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

• (a) freedom of conscience and religion;
• (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
• (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
• (d) freedom of association.

* The two demonstrations coming this week, in Toronto and Montreal have obtained all the necessary authorizations. Social distancing measures, masks, will be respected... The spousal sponsors did it, why not us ??

From there, I think there is not a shadow of a problem. They can express their disapproval, and they can wait years and years (With a serious and real risk of the rise of the Conservatives in a majority way, and of retaining immigration laws retroactively, and a reshipping of our envellopes of applications, with a written cancellation, refund, and a letter we invite to apply again when we have met the new rules ... It is not science fiction, it is a serious risk that we take day after day ... And the Conservatives have done this in the past for certain categories of permanent residents)

Unless otherwise advised (i.e. the legal opposition or the grieff filed by the union does not succeed in blocking things), a recent directive from the secretariat of the Treasury Board of Canada will put an end to the abuses linked to code 699 ( Code 699 is the acronym for unlimited leave, and does not affect the credit for normally available leave) will force employees to a safe return to work, starting November 9. That is to say tomorrow, soon.

If their union's lobbying fails to defeat this directive from the Treasury Board, they will have no choice but to agree to return to work (Or else agree to take days off their usual leave, instead of steal taxpayer money, and stay hidden in their basement).

I really think that this date of November 9 is a beacon of hope for us ... We must, I think, continue the pressure, and hope that the lobbying of these profiteers of the code 699 does not succeed.

And that no one comes to tell me that I insult anyone. Shame on you ... I tried to be as courteous as possible, but they'll be abusing this for 10 months soon.

I am only aligning myself with the position of the Canadian Treasury Board.


As a reminder, here is the directive from the Treasury Board, which I believe should give us hope (Since they will be forced to stop the abuses ... + The Treasury Board was smart enough to leave a door open despite everything for code 699, for health cases or certain cases requiring it, and requests will be examined on a case-by-case basis ... Which is very, very intelligent in my opinion: This will avoid, and lose all substance and legitimacy to any future legal challenges, and there will be), followed by the union's swift and brutal response. Interesting links and extracts:

1)Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat :

https://www.canada.ca/en/government/publicservice/covid-19/message-chro-covid-19-other-leave-with-pay-guidance.html

To support you in these efforts, we are clarifying the guidance around the use of ‘Other Leave With Pay (699)’. This updated guidance, which will be effective November 9, 2020, emphasizes that this leave should be granted on a case-by-case basis, and only after remote or alternate work, or flexible work hours have been considered, and generally only after other relevant paid leave has first been used by the employee.

Once all available options have been considered, and managers have consulted with their Labour Relations advisors, ‘Other Leave With Pay (699)’ could be available in situations where an employee:

• has work or technology limitations,
• cannot work remotely and has been diagnosed with COVID-19, is experiencing symptoms and/or is required to self-isolate,
• has caregiving responsibilities as a result of such things as school or daycare closures, or COVID-19 illness or isolation requirements, or
• cannot work remotely and is at high risk or has someone in their care who is at high risk of severe illness from COVID-19.

2) Public Service Alliance of Canada :

http://psacunion.ca/changes-699-leave-psac-take-further-legal-action

PSAC is filing a second policy grievance against Treasury Board for its most recent discriminatory changes to 699 leave that will force federal workers to exhaust all other leave – including sick leave and vacation leave – before they can request “other leave with pay” for COVID-19-related reasons.
...
Without the availability of a vaccine, and with many parts of Canada experiencing a second wave of the pandemic, Treasury Board’s proposed changes are premature and do not reflect the current reality of this public health crisis and its mental health impacts on public service workers.

 

[sachinsoman1988]

In order to make things clear to everyone who is working towards protesting for this cause...

The Canadian charter of freedom guarantees everyone (Irrespective of views or opinions) de jure. that is to say with the power of the law the freedom of words, expressions, demonstrations, gatherings, etc.

Quoting https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/how-rights-protected/guide-canadian-charter-rights-freedoms.html ,

However, the rights and freedoms in the Charter are not absolute. They can be limited to protect other rights or important national values. For example, freedom of expression may be limited by laws against hate propaganda or child pornography.

 

[piotrqc]

In order to make things clear to everyone who is working towards protesting for this cause...

The Canadian charter of freedom guarantees everyone (Irrespective of views or opinions) de jure. that is to say with the power of the law the freedom of words, expressions, demonstrations, gatherings, etc.

Quoting https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/how-rights-protected/guide-canadian-charter-rights-freedoms.html ,

However, the rights and freedoms in the Charter are not absolute. They can be limited to protect other rights or important national values. For example, freedom of expression may be limited by laws against hate propaganda or child pornography.

So you want to ban people from demonstrating? Say it clearly. Have the courage to say it.

Or have you seen such hate speech?

The secretariat of the Treasury Board is also hateful, so according to your logic? ... Will you dare to express yourself on the directive of the Treasury Board? ... Why can't you comment on it? (Have you only read it? ... Or do you have a conflict of interest?)

I simply expressed my point of view on the abuse of public funds. The secretariat of the Treasury Board seems to think the same thing. Or do you see hatred in their position?

Last Thing: Even though I know the 699 Code abuse argument is totally legitimate and is just a take on abuse of taxpayer money, I don't see the interest of invoking it in the banners, or in my words when I would be in the demonstration.

Personally, I would be content to display a Canadian flag to express my love for this country ... I would wear a mask, and I would stand 2, or even 3 meters from other protesters.

Who can blame us for demonstrating peacefully and showing our love for this beautiful country?

The spousal sponsors did it. Why not us ?

If you are ok with waiting several years, this is your busniess, you are free. But don't scare people who want to demonstrate publicly.


I remind once again that the authorizations were obtained for the two demonstrations. Again: Authorizations were obtained for both demonstrations

I didn't organize anything myself, but the organizers got them for both cities.

I am law abiding, and of course I would follow any direction from the relevant authorities. We are calling for the repeat citizenship tests, we are not looking for the problems.

 

[Das67]

In order to make things clear to everyone who is working towards protesting for this cause...

The Canadian charter of freedom guarantees everyone (Irrespective of views or opinions) de jure. that is to say with the power of the law the freedom of words, expressions, demonstrations, gatherings, etc.

Quoting https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/how-rights-protected/guide-canadian-charter-rights-freedoms.html ,

However, the rights and freedoms in the Charter are not absolute. They can be limited to protect other rights or important national values. For example, freedom of expression may be limited by laws against hate propaganda or child pornography.

No one in the right mind will be using hate speech during the protest, don't need to worry about this. If they do use hate speech which I doubt, they will face consequences as adults. but I bet, the hate speech will come from the people who don't want to see the protest. You should be reminding them to keep their hate away from the protesters.

 

[sachinsoman1988]

No one in the right mind will be using hate speech during the protest, don't need to worry about this. If they do use hate speech which I doubt, they will face consequences as adults. but I bet, the hate speech will come from the people who don't want to see the protest. You should be reminding them to keep their hate away from the protesters.

You can read posts above.. what words were used by 'protestors' against the people whom they don't like or disagreed with them? I do agree that in in-person protests , everyone will be mindful. But key part of accepting freedom of rights is to respect others freedom and not call insult people just because they disagree with your cause.

If you can point out a single post where I said don't protest and stand off with your ideas or I have preached to shut up or silence any views , i will accept your views. I tried to understand the reasoning behind this and dont agree with it and don't find any substance in it. Freedom of rights is not a guard to use after insulting people in a public forum. I don't know about the entirety of people who are protesting , but some of the people in this forum have spend a good amount of time to preach hate against government employees and individuals who don't agree with them.

 

[deadbird]

However, the rights and freedoms in the Charter are not absolute. They can be limited to protect other rights or important national values. For example, freedom of expression may be limited by laws against hate propaganda or child pornography.

How did you leap from protests against disenfranchisement to hate speech? What happened between Calicut and now? I feel like your American dream never panned out and now you've become very very bitter. So sorry for you. Hope you feel better.

 

[Das67]

You can read posts above.. what words were used by 'protestors' against the people whom they don't like or disagreed with them? I do agree that in in-person protests , everyone will be mindful. But key part of accepting freedom of rights is to respect others freedom and not call insult people just because they disagree with your cause.

If you can point out a single post where I said don't protest and stand off with your ideas or I have preached to shut up or silence any views , i will accept your views. I tried to understand the reasoning behind this and dont agree with it and don't find any substance in it. Freedom of rights is not a guard to use after insulting people in a public forum. I don't know about the entirety of people who are protesting , but some of the people in this forum have spend a good amount of time to preach hate against government employees and individuals who don't agree with them.

I don't know why you are taking this so personal, and I don't remember you asking people to not protest or anything like that. People who will be protesting are adults and supposed to know the limit of their freedom of speech. I assume they are adults enough to know that hate speech is a crime in this country and by doing so during the protest, that will be counterproductive, and they can be charged for it. Relax man , nothing here is about you please do not take this personal.

 

[sachinsoman1988]

So you want to ban people from demonstrating? Say it clearly. Have the courage to say it.

Or have you seen such hate speech?

The secretariat of the Treasury Board is also hateful, so according to your logic? ... Will you dare to express yourself on the directive of the Treasury Board? ... Why can't you comment on it? (Have you only read it? ... Or do you have a conflict of interest?)

I simply expressed my point of view on the abuse of public funds. The secretariat of the Treasury Board seems to think the same thing. Or do you see hatred in their position?

Last Thing: Even though I know the 699 Code abuse argument is totally legitimate and is just a take on abuse of taxpayer money, I don't see the interest of invoking it in the banners, or in my words when I would be in the demonstration.

Personally, I would be content to display a Canadian flag to express my love for this country ... I would wear a mask, and I would stand 2, or even 3 meters from other protesters.

Who can blame us for demonstrating peacefully and showing our love for this beautiful country?

The spousal sponsors did it. Why not us ?

If you are ok with waiting several years, this is your busniess, you are free. But don't scare people who want to demonstrate publicly.


I remind once again that the authorizations were obtained for the two demonstrations. Again: Authorizations were obtained for both demonstrations

I didn't organize anything myself, but the organizers got them for both cities.

I am law abiding, and of course I would follow any direction from the relevant authorities. We are calling for the repeat citizenship tests, we are not looking for the problems.

I have said and I will say it again. According to me, from what I have read in this forum from the people who are calling protests, I dont see any substance in asking fast tracking citizenship applications when the COVID-19 is at large in the society. Some of the main reasons that were discussed in this forum were (I might have missed some of them..):

1. Anxiety/Mental stress because of pending citizenship application
2. We dont have right to vote as PR
3. Conservatives will be elected in the next election and they will find a reason to deport people who are residents now.
4. Anxiety of deportation if knowingly or unknowingly got involved in a crime.
5. Difficulty to travel and make application for PRTD.

Anyone can agree/disagree with me and choose to protest or not according to their wish. I am referring to hate speech when folks in this forum has called government employees lots of phrases (I dont want to repeat it again!!) and whoever responding with opposing view was called lot of insults.

No one ever has written anything here to STOP people from protesting. I have not seen a single post in this forum which has intimidated or silenced anyone to stage any demonstrations. However, just like protestors, I am very well within my rights to show my views in this topic in a public forum. People are well within their rights to agree/disagree/protest/dont protest after reading my posts. Protests are arranged in various cities in Canada. There is a plausible chance that any individual going through the protest shouts that your reasons for protests are ridiculous. What are you guys planning to do? Call them liars or supporting lazy government employees or x-IRCC staffer? and calling it a freedom of speech under Canadian freedom of rights.

Now, if the problem is that people might be getting influenced by my writing and that's the reason why I am being silenced, issue is not in my side. Rather, its the reasonings discussed or explained for the protests are not strong and people cannot relate themselves to the urgency that is being showcased as the reason of protests.

 

[sachinsoman1988]

Wow! How did you leap from protests against disenfranchisement to hate speech? What happened between Calicut and now? I feel like your American dream never panned out and now you've become very very bitter. So sorry for you. Hope you feel better.

One of your protestors quoted Canadian freedom of rights to guard/justify themselves for insulting people in public and I am pointing out that its not an excuse to be used after hate speech against a group or individual.

Now, You are right. I was in Florida and the US dream was a disaster and I in my wildest dream did not expect such a crowd in Canada who only care about themselves even if that means putting another persons life at risk.

 

[piotrqc]

One of your protestors quoted Canadian freedom of rights to guard/justify themselves for insulting people in public and I am pointing out that its not an excuse to be used after hate speech against a group or individual.

Now, You are right. I was in Florida and the US dream was a disaster and I in my wildest dream did not expect such a crowd in Canada who only care about themselves even if that means putting another persons life at risk.

So according to your logic, the secretariat of the Canadian treasury board, by its decision to modify code 699, promotes hatred, and puts the lives of other people in danger, I understand correctly?

One last time: What do you think of the Treasury Board's decision to tighten up controls on the use of the 699 holiday from November 9?

You carefully avoid expressing yourself on this subject because you know that it will undermine your theses.

The Canadian charter guarantees the right to express oneself and to demonstrate. The authorizations were obtained by the organizers. End of the story.

If anyone uses genuine hate speech during protests, (Worrying about mismanagement of public funds and reporting abuse is not hate, it is constructive discussion, contributors to the public money have the right to discuss good governance ... If it is, then I challenge you to be consistent with yourself, and to denounce the decision of the treasure board in the same way ?? .. .I'm sure you wouldn't do that, because it would be an implicit recognition that your arguments are not solid, it would not be serious to accuse such a respectable institution of such nonsense, hate speech and endangering life. of others ... These are serious accusations!), so I was saying, if someone uses true hate speech during protests, they will face the consequences as an adult.

For now the concern is focused on the current blocking of citizenship tests, and the fact that there are no announcements and no plans on the horizon ... If the union has the right to lobbing to preserve a `` right '' (according to them), and an abuse, according to the Treasury Board and several taxpayers (these are not insults or hate speech here, but opinions) ... If their union has the right to lobby so loudly for waste of public money (and that does not shock you ?? ... what a shame ... this and a real insult to all employees in the private sector, and self-employed workers), So I said, if these people have the right to take advantage of the freedoms guaranteed by the charter to claim such insecure things, why we would not have the right we too the right to defend, within the framework of the law and the respect, a cause that seems legitimate and just to us?

Most people only want one thing. The resumption of citizenship tests, in one way or another (In person with security and distancing measures, masks, hydro-alcoholic hand gel, etc.) ... Or better yet, an online solution.

It is sure that an online forum offers us the possibility of expressing ourselves more in length ...

But don't worry, people aren't stupid enough to say things that will be counterproductive.

The spousal sponsors demonstrated in all pacifism, and without problem.

And the end of their fight was happy, they got what they wanted.

Why not us ?

 

[anton_k]

PLEASE, stop arguing about this. It only INCREASES anxiety instead of suppressing that. WE SHOULD NOT argue about the reasons for our worries.
Apparently, citizenship IS AN IMPORTANT STEP for us. You just need to CALM DOWN and focus on TEXTING JOURNALISTS/MPs.
Don't spend your time arguing, because it's pointless and only discourages people to VISIT this thread.

 

[skydiving]

I agree, focus on what can really help the situation, ignore the noise.