Children from prior marriage

[Tuggie]

Hi Everyone,

This is a difficult subject to discuss, but I was hoping some of you on here may relate so I have someone to talk to about it.

I have young (all 12 and younger) children from a prior marriage and they live with their dad, my ex-husband, in the USA. He is not a nice person and does not comply with the court order to allow me access to my children nor to provide the required information about my children.

When preparing my spousal visa application, I included documents showing that I requested my ex to get the required medicals of my children, etc., and that he did not reply or even acknowledge my request. This is how my lawyer told me that I had to handle this because I really had no other viable alternative.

My oldest will be 13 next year. Even though I am not able to bring my children with me to Canada at this time, I do hope and pray that I will be able to bring at least my oldest up here to live with me maybe as soon as next year.

Has anyone had experience with or have knowledge of how CIC handles these types of situations?

Thanks in advance for your kind consideration and reply to my post.

Tuggie

 

[RobsLuv]

If the children are not medically examined as part of your application process, whether they are accompanying you to Canada now or not, you will be forever banned from sponsoring them to live in Canada at any time in the future. If you want to protect that option, it's imperative that you get them examined. I understand that you're not being allowed access - but that's a matter for the courts. Immigration Canada will not put themselves in the middle of custody or access disputes - so, in my humble opinion, this is a battle you're going to have to wage and win before you submit any application for permanent status. Having had to make some of the same choices myself (although my children were 19 & 21 when I applied), you will find that the regrets can be very hard to overcome as time passes. This has the potential to seriously screw up both your future with your kids, your mental and emotional health and your current relationship if you make choices now, in the moment, that will be hard to live with later. Whatever you do, do not assume that at some point CIC will react with compassion and allow you to bring your children to Canada because, when you immigrated, your awful ex was denying you access. And the bigger heartbreak would be not in you not being able to bring them if you wanted them to come - it would be in having to tell them "No" if they were wanting to live with you.

Do you have family in the States who are allowed to see your children and spend time with them? If so, you might be able to arrange for a relative to take them to see a DMP in their area. To my knowledge there is no consent required - in other words, I don't think it would be a situation where the DMP would refuse to examine them without the custodial parent's consent. The other option is to get the courts involved, in the best interest of your children, to compel your ex to allow them to be examined. I'm not talking trying to get custody or anything like that - just elicit the help of the Court to compel him to do what's right by them. What I always remind people of - and exs should consider this, too - if something was to happen to them, and the children had been excluded from membership in the family class stream because of non-examination when their other parent immigrated - the children would, essentially, be left orphaned. Now, in the past people on these forums who have immigrated without their kids have gotten really offended and threatened by my saying this - so let me assure you, I'm not making judgments. I'm immigrating without two of my kids - I've had to make the choice myself. It isn't about judgment - it's about the reality of how this situation is dealt with in the Act and Regulations and the consequences of having to make that decision. In light of that, it's worth it - in my opinion - to do whatever it takes to get them to a DMP for what is, essentially, a very short, simple exam so that they're protected. Wish you the best.

 

[Tuggie]

Robsluv,

Thank you for your reply.

I did some websearch's and found a recommended Canadian immigration firm and just sent them the following message:

"Hi,
I have Canadian work permit good through January 31, 2012, and five months ago submitted (through Xxx's office in London, Ontario) a spousal PR application.
The problem I have is that I have joint custody of three children (ages 8,11,and 12) who live with my ex-husband, their father, in xxx, USA. Their father refuses my court-ordered access and completely blocks me from speaking to them or getting information about them. I can not travel to the USA to get this resolved (various reasons), so I am unable to provide medical exams, passport copies, pictures, etc. with my spousal PR application.
If I am approved by CIC and become a Canadian PR and subsequently am able to travel to the USA with my Canadian husband and fight and win a legal battle to obtain full custody of my three children, will I be able to bring them with me back to Canada to live here (assume that the USA courts will permit it)?
Please reply and let me know if this is possible.
Thank you,
xx"


I will let you all know what they say in response.

Tuggie

 

[chelley]

The law are clearly outlined above and there isn't really, to the best of my knowledge, room for interpretation... Sadly asking until you get the answer you want isn't in your best interest here... Your options are to follow the advice above or accept the consequences

 

[Misplaced Brit]

My situation is similar to yours. I have three young children from a previous relationship in the UK. My ex too, has refused to let me have contact with them, and has refused to have them examined. However, because we weren't married we never had a custody agreement, but I had to sign my rights to them away when I left for Canada, so that if the kids should need any emergency treatment, he is legally able to sign for that. Unfortunately, I can't get a hold of the form I signed. The children's court told me that they don't have that paperwork any more.

I have had no choice but to accept the fact that I will be banned from sponsoring my children at any time in the future. It hurts like crazy, but there are no other options for me. I totally sympathize with you and your situation. Try everything you can before making a final decision.

 

[mrs B]

We are in the same boat, I am sponsering my husband, he has 2 kids and NO contact with them, they are 21 and 19
we are already aproved for sponsership workpermit ect, but immi asked for meds for kids, we have written them back that we cannot obtain those, and that we are willing to sign a declaration (or whatever is neccesary) that we have no intensions of ever sponsering anyone in the future,

To Robsluv: seems you have some experience with this, do you think we have a change, Could canada immi denie us pr for not being able to obtain meds???????????

 

[arron]

AFAIK, they can not deny you for this, but they do urge very strongly that you try everything within your means to obtain the medicals, in the end I believe (not 100% sure on this) they will send you a letter outlining the fact that you are not supplying the medicals, and make you sign a paper saying that you acknowledge that you will never be able to sponsor them in the future.

 

[mrs B]

Does anyone know off any cases where people did end up getting PR ???
also does this make our case take a lot longer, it started sept 2009.

 

[mrs B]

Does anyone know off any cases where people did end up getting PR ???
also does this make our case take a lot longer, it started sept 2009.

also to what extend does immi look for info on kids is there verbal contakt

 

[Tuggie]

Hi everyone,

Misplaced Brit, thank you for your reply. It sounds like you have a very similar situation to mine. It is brutal, isn't it? I sent you a private message.

It makes NO sense to me that the Canadian government would prevent a parent from bringing their children in at a later date. Why wouldn't the government just require the children to fill out the application and go through all the hoops at the later date? No logic whatsoever, in my opinion, to forever prevent children to immigrate at a later date.

I agree that asking, again and again, the same question to the same person would NOT make sense or be helpful. However, asking the question of a qualified immigration lawyer DOES make sense and, in my situation, is the only course I have available to me. Unless there are some undercover immigration lawyers on here that I am not aware of, I am not asking the same question of the same person.

I did appreciate Robsluv's reply. It was very helpful and gave very good advice. Unfortunately, I am not able to implement the advice she gave because of my circumstances.

Thank you to all that have already responded and those that will respond later. If anyone can answer Mrs. B's questions, that would be great because I have those same questions.

Tuggie

 

[rjessome]

Document the evidence of your attempts to make contact with your ex to have the children examined. Do as much as you can. You say you are unable to follow RobsLuv's advice of contacting the court that made the custody order to compel your ex to comply with the access portion of your order. That's too bad because that would be excellent evidence. Yes, the law is quite clear that you will be unable to sponsor them at a later date if they are not medically examined, however, you may have a shot at a Humanitarian and Compassionate application after you become a PR if your evidence is strong enough that you tried to get them examined in the initial application.

One thing I don't understand is how you plan to bring your oldest within the next year if you can't get him/her medically examined now?

Yes, applications where children are not medically examined generally take longer because CIC does not want to have them be excluded from the possibility of further sponsorship. They are trying to give the principal applicant as much time as possible to get the children examined.

CIC would look for contact with respect to an H&C application at a later date to sponsor the children. And an FYI, H&C's are very difficult to win. Don't think of it as a ticket to later being able to sponsor children that were excluded. It's a chance but a slim one.

 

[Tuggie]

rjessome,

Wow, thanks for the great reply. I may try to contact the court, especially since my ex is totally out of compliance with the current court order. Who knows? Maybe I will get somewhere with it. The last time I tried, however, I was told that I would have to travel there and be physically present for the court hearing. I am not able to do that.

I had read somewhere about the long-shot H&C application, after PR approval without meds for the children. Thank you for including that in your reply.

Concerning my hope to bring my oldest up here within a year or so, I was dreaming. Unless things change dramatically, that will probably not be possible.

Anyway, thanks for the replies. I purposely do not go into many personal details on a public website, which I know makes it harder for others to give advice or reply.

Have a great day.

Tuggie

 

[mrs B]

We have no intention in sponsering the kids because they are 21 and 19 we have never had contakt with them since they were kids, there are no court papers. just a verbal agreement with the ex. we told CIC that we are willing to sign anything neccesary we are just very worried they wont comply, I quess all this waiting makes us worry......

 

[Tuggie]

Robsluv (or any other experienced/knowledgeable people, for that matter),

Have you any experience or knowledge regarding CIC's position on sponsoring internationally adopted children?

The reason I ask is that I seriously doubt the court that I would have to deal with in the USA (where my children currently live with their dad, my ex) will allow me to move my children to Canada even if I win full custody of them. Because if I moved them up here, their dad would not have much ability to visit them without great cost.

So, given that, probably the only way I would ever be able to move my children up here is if my ex were to die (I know, this is morbid).

In that case (i.e. if my ex dies and I am granted full custody of my children and can move them out of the USA -- all of my ex in-laws live in a different country anyway), I would expect that my Canadian husband would officially adopt all three of them.

In that case, I would think the sponsorship would change from me sponsoring my children from a prior marriage to my Canadian citizen husband sponsoring his newly-adopted children from another country.

I am just theorizing here, as I do not have any good options in front of me other than giving up on living in Canada permanently and trying to get approval for my Canadian husband to immigrate with me back to the USA so I can be near my children -- which may be my only available long-term solution, given the current Canadian immigration rules and my current situation.

P.S. Don't worry -- if I were going to off my ex, it would have happened a loooooong time ago.

 

[rjessome]

No, this wouldn't work. The adoption would be seen as one of "convenience" because of your inability to sponsor them due to the exclusion from the family class (because they weren't medically examined when you were sponsored). This type of application would be refused.

Do you have legal representation? This is a complicated issue you are dealing with and I am sympathetic. If immigration to Canada is what you really want, then you need to position yourself accordingly for the best possible chance at a future H&C application.

If you are willing to fight it out now with your ex, you need to just be able to get them medically examined to preserve your right of sponsorship in the future. That is your best case scenario for the moment for immigration purposes. This advice isn't even about winning full custody or being close to them. Unfortunately that's a family law problem (and difficult personal choices) that none of us can really help you with. BUT, fighting for this now could save you and your children a lot of heartache down the road if your right to sponsor is preserved.