Bill C-6: Senate stage

[AliceL]

This is not a question of qualification. There is a residency requirement for citizenship. If someone obtains PR today after living/working/studying here for 10 years, he has the same number of "residency days" as someone who just landed today as PR.

Why would residency only count after PR? When it comes to tax, they tax you fully since you are considered a resident for tax purposes. You dont pay less if you are not a Citizen. Only fair if you get credit for these residency days which someone who just landed does not have. No discrimination here. Only puts value towards contribution to economy.

Exactly! As an international student, I paid 35 000$ for a 2-year degree! That's a pretty important sum of money that I brought to a Canadian university. I was also working while studying and I was paying taxes. Afterwards, I worked for one year and a half as a temporary worker while waiting for my PR and I paid a lot of taxes! All of this while having access to NONE of the benefits that PRs and citizens have access to. So, I'm sorry, but yes we are entitled to pre-PR credit! It is our right and it's owed to us. And yes I do believe that we contribute more than someone who comes here as PR, enrolls in a university, gets government loans and scholarships to study while waiting for their citizenship and once they get it they leave Canada. These are the Canadians of Convenience that led to the introduction of the controversial 4/6 and intent to reside rules through Bill C24 (which I'm of course against). I'm sorry to say that I know a lot of people who do this and intend to do it.

 

[wolfpack27616]

Exactly! As an international student, I paid 35 000$ for a 2-year degree! That's a pretty important sum of money that I brought to a Canadian university. I was also working while studying and I was paying taxes. Afterwards, I worked for one year and a half as a temporary worker while waiting for my PR and I paid a lot of taxes! All of this while having access to NONE of the benefits that PRs and citizens have access to. So, I'm sorry, but yes we are entitled to pre-PR credit! It is our right and it's owed to us. And yes I do believe that we contribute more than someone who comes here as PR, enrolls in a university, gets government loans and scholarships to study while waiting for their citizenship and once they get it they leave Canada. These are the Canadians of Convenience that led to the introduction of the controversial 4/6 and intent to reside rules through Bill C24 (which I'm of course against). I'm sorry to say that I know a lot of people who do this and intend to do it.

I don't want to derail this thread any further- but you do understand that everybody has a different perspective about their contribution.

For instance, there are way more home owners who are PR's than students (the first thing my realtor asked me was if I was a PR/Citizen- that makes it easier to qualify for a mortgage)- and as a home owner, we pay property tax.
Also most of the PR's work and pay income tax.

So you might think your 35K might be a big sum- but most of the PR's pay more than that in taxes.

So it's not exactly an open and shut argument.

edit: also could you list some benefits that is available only for PRs and citizens? For instance, I was under the impression that temp workers are also eligible for OHIP. And loans are loans, not exactly a benefit- it needs to be repaid, right? I am asking because despite the taxes I have happily paid for the quality of life I am enjoying, i have not availed any benefits as such- so i just want to make sure I am not missing out on any!

 

[sbag_in]

Exactly! As an international student, I paid 35 000$ for a 2-year degree! That's a pretty important sum of money that I brought to a Canadian university. I was also working while studying and I was paying taxes. Afterwards, I worked for one year and a half as a temporary worker while waiting for my PR and I paid a lot of taxes! All of this while having access to NONE of the benefits that PRs and citizens have access to. So, I'm sorry, but yes we are entitled to pre-PR credit! It is our right and it's owed to us. And yes I do believe that we contribute more than someone who comes here as PR, enrolls in a university, gets government loans and scholarships to study while waiting for their citizenship and once they get it they leave Canada. These are the Canadians of Convenience that led to the introduction of the controversial 4/6 and intent to reside rules through Bill C24 (which I'm of course against). I'm sorry to say that I know a lot of people who do this and intend to do it.

Does it really matter if you intend to stay in Canada, if your pre PR years get counted into citizenship application or not, you say you want to stay in Canada. So what's the big deal if you get you citizenship in let's say 2022 instead of 2020. Your reasoning is wrong. I am all for thebPre PR years being counted... But to say you are entitled to it, are some strong words.. Also what do you mean by a Canadian of convenience.. You don't know the situation these people are in. Who are you to judge them...

 

[itsmyid]

I don't want to derail this thread any further- but you do understand that everybody has a different perspective about their contribution.

For instance, there are way more home owners who are PR's than students (the first thing my realtor asked me was if I was a PR/Citizen- that makes it easier to qualify for a mortgage)- and as a home owner, we pay property tax.
Also most of the PR's work and pay income tax.

So you might think your 35K might be a big sum- but most of the PR's pay more than that in taxes.

So it's not exactly an open and shut argument.

edit: also could you list some benefits that is available only for PRs and citizens? For instance, I was under the impression that temp workers are also eligible for OHIP. And loans are loans, not exactly a benefit- it needs to be repaid, right? I am asking because despite the taxes I have happily paid for the quality of life I am enjoying, i have not availed any benefits as such- so i just want to make sure I am not missing out on any!

Exactly , and don't forget that 35k/year is the money spent on your education, which is more of an exchange than a 'contribution' , that's the money you pay to get your degree, which you use later for job search - again, I support the pre-pr credit , but I don't believe anybody owed you anything

 

[AliceL]

I don't want to derail this thread any further- but you do understand that everybody has a different perspective about their contribution.

For instance, there are way more home owners who are PR's than students (the first thing my realtor asked me was if I was a PR/Citizen- that makes it easier to qualify for a mortgage)- and as a home owner, we pay property tax.
Also most of the PR's work and pay income tax.

So you might think your 35K might be a big sum- but most of the PR's pay more than that in taxes.

So it's not exactly an open and shut argument.

edit: also could you list some benefits that is available only for PRs and citizens? For instance, I was under the impression that temp workers are also eligible for OHIP. And loans are loans, not exactly a benefit- it needs to be repaid, right? I am asking because despite the taxes I have happily paid for the quality of life I am enjoying, i have not availed any benefits as such- so i just want to make sure I am not missing out on any!

Students pay taxes too btw. Personally, I paid taxes as a student, and a lot more as a temporary worker afterwards. And third, I mentioned a very specific class of PRs that I think deserve citizenship less than us.

I don't know what OHIP is. I live in Quebec and temporary residents do not have access to provincial healthcare. Also, we don't have access to a family doctor. Both provincial and federal banks do not give loans (for students who have very low income, low-interest loans are certainly a benefit) or credit margins to temporary residents. They also do not have access to a savings account (the one free of taxes). International students are also not allowed to apply for provincial or federal scholarships (a big disadvantage for students who want to pursue an academic career later). Should I go on? You speak of your own experience, but I'm talking about the conditions of many temporary residents. Big picture, you know.

 

[AliceL]

Does it really matter if you intend to stay in Canada, if your pre PR years get counted into citizenship application or not, you say you want to stay in Canada. So what's the big deal if you get you citizenship in let's say 2022 instead of 2020. Your reasoning is wrong. I am all for thebPre PR years being counted... But to say you are entitled to it, are some strong words.. Also what do you mean by a Canadian of convenience.. You don't know the situation these people are in. Who are you to judge them...

I do know the situation these people are in. It's exactly the situation I described. They are people that I personally know and who are very honest about this. They say "I wanna get the citizenship to get paid more in Dubai", or "I wanna get the citizenship because I wanna go back home and be an activist and Canada will cover my ass".

Also, who are you to say that my reasoning is wrong? The success of my career depends greatly on when I get my citizenship.

 

[AliceL]

Exactly , and don't forget that 35k/year is the money spent on your education, which is more of an exchange than a 'contribution' , that's the money you pay to get your degree, which you use later for job search - again, I support the pre-pr credit , but I don't believe anybody owed you anything

It is a contribution, believe me. Canadian universities depend greatly on the money international students bring them, specially in the current context of budget cuts. That is why universities do their best to bring in as many international students as they can.

 

[itsmyid]

It is a contribution, believe me. Canadian universities depend greatly on the money international students bring them, specially in the current context of budget cuts. That is why universities do their best to bring in as many international students as they can.

The thing is, they get international students here to get their money in exchange they provide them with opportunities of education and work opportunities afterwards - it is a mutual agreed upon transaction. Why does it have anything to do with "deserving citizenship more than others ". If someone pays a tons of money to buy a Porsche, would it be Ok for him to demand citizenship because of the money spent?

 

[AliceL]

The thing is, they get international students here to get their money in exchange they provide them with opportunities of education and work opportunities afterwards - it is a mutual agreed upon transaction. Why does it have anything to do with "deserving citizenship more than others ". If someone pays a tons of money to buy a Porsche, would it be Ok for him to demand citizenship because of the money spend ?

Everyone here clearly missed my point. Nevermind.

 

[Joshua1]

Everyone here clearly missed my point. Nevermind.

Because the point is moot.

I was an international student as well and spent money. Comparing tracks for PR towards citizenship is futile because of current immigration laws. The only PRs who have different conditions are those who work for the armed forces (even overseas) and those who work federal and provincial gvt overseas ... in terms of physical presence

 

[Imadassadi]

a refugee is apologyed to file tax from the day he submitted his refugee claimants application because he is considered as a resident of canada , so he should be credit all the days when applying for citizenship.

 

[itsmyid]

a refugee is apologyed to file tax from the day he submitted his refugee claimants application because he is considered as a resident of canada , so he should be credit all the days when applying for citizenship.

Everybody else also pays tax since the day they start living in Canada , and they don't receive any government benefits available only to refugees - what happened today? So many people feel more entitled than others for no valid reason

 

[quasar81]

Yawnnnnn....

While Senators vacation on taxpayer bucks, folks here fight..

 

[sbag_in]

I do know the situation these people are in. It's exactly the situation I described. They are people that I personally know and who are very honest about this. They say "I wanna get the citizenship to get paid more in Dubai", or "I wanna get the citizenship because I wanna go back home and be an activist and Canada will cover my ass".

Also, who are you to say that my reasoning is wrong? The success of my career depends greatly on when I get my citizenship.

Clearly it's futile trying to reason with you... You are judging the vast majority of naturalized citizens by a few you know who did not stay in Canada, which by the way is actually not any argument all. A citizen can stay anywhere he or she wants, if the other country permits it. That is one of the basic rights in the Canadian Charter of Rights. To judge them as Canadians of convenience shows discriminiation and a lack of empathy on your part. What one guy does with his citizenship is his business. Not yours or anyone else's for that matter. As I am already a PR, it's not fair on my part to judge you, as I know the process can be quite frustrating... and so I won't any more... Anyway all the best to you.. I hope you become a productive citizen for the betterment of this country..

 

[wolfpack27616]

Students pay taxes too btw.
Should I go on? You speak of your own experience, but I'm talking about the conditions of many temporary residents. Big picture, you know.

I am pretty sure at an average, PR pay way more taxes than students. I am speaking from my experience and perspective, as you are from yours.
That was exactly my intention. To show to you that everybody would be viewing this from their perspective, and feel that they are slighted or more entitled.
Regarding citizens of convenience- every category have people who abuse it and spoil it for the rest of us. I know a lot of students who enrol in colleges just to get a foothold into the country without any intention or ambition to pursue a career. There's no high ground in any category.
.
And people out here are "missing the point" because you have assumed that your point is universal. But the truth is- it just caters to your situation and others in your situation.

Just like my situation and perspective is unique to me and other PRs who are waiting to be eligible to apply for citizenship. Lets not kid ourselves with "big picture" etc.