Bill C-24 Second Reading on February 27th:

[stanka]

I am not an economist nor am I a sociologist so I'm not best placed to advise on immigration policy all I can do is provide my personal experience. I am a permanent resident and worked on a non immigrant visa for the CPP for some years beforehand. Because of this bill it will take me two more years than previously to be eligible for citizenship. Now I need to reassess my options. I can work anywhere in the world and I don't think Canada is worth the investment anymore, reinforced by the bad taste of non merit based social elitism from this bill. What Canada has told us is that they don't care about us but that they will use us if we are useful. Fine, that's good business. But this bill is bad business. I provide skills that Canada has a short supply of, I command a high salary, therefore pay a lot of income tax and increase the competitiveness of a Canadian company that competes globally therefore increasing GDP. I will now leave, first to the us for a number of years and later I'll return to london. I am articulate and reliable and have never caused social problems. I am not particularly loyal to Canada, it is not where I was born or have allegiance to but I share the same values as most Canadians. From my own experience, myself and others like me who leave are Canada's loss. The carrot is gone, I can't trust policy and I am done but I still had a good time.

Well said indeed.

 

[paw339]

Some interesting points made tonight. I think we're all sometimes guilty of looking at C-24 through selfish eyes rather than looking at it from a more objective point of view. C-24 has some good points and it will pass, but it wouldn't surprise me if eventually the grounds to strip Canadian Citizenship end up being seriously restricted with a legal appeal process being brought in.

 

[Intel]

I am following this thread passively for a time now. I respect the discussed points from either who supports the bill or who opposes it.

The problem with this bill is that it is (in my opinion) a poison with sugar coating. All Canadians love to hear that the government will take steps to fight fraud and criminality (and from there comes the support for the bill). Unfortunately, not all Canadians understand how the bill may affect them. My thoughts about the bill are the following:

• Enforcing physical presence is a good thing. However, there should be considerations for the travelling employees of Canadian businesses. A PR truck driver, who is working in a Canadian company and travelling between US and Canada, will not be able to satisfy the physical presence requirement.
• While I am personally opposing the elimination of counting pre-PR time, I do not see it as a major issue here. In the worst case, we will have to wait additional 2 to 3 years. I used to be an international graduate student (now domestic) myself, and many of us came with the intention to study and go home afterwards.
• The problem with the bill is the revocation reform. The minster always talks about NATO allies having similar provisions. He will not talk about how the Canadian constitution is different from those of the NATO allies (even the UK does not have one). However, the major issue in my opinion is not the cause of the revocation, but the revocation procedure without having a fair trial.
• Many Canadians do not understand that giving revocation power to a political government and without judicial oversight may backfire on them if they tried to express their freedom. A political government can utilize this to suppress any voice of opposition.
• I did not forget about the "intend to reside". However, I consider it part of the problematic revocation reform.

I understand that there other issues with the bill that I did not mention. I also respect the effort taken to defend for citizenship rights under the constitution and the rule of law.

While there is no hope of having reasonable amendments to this bill before becoming a law, I wish that we can challenge it to prevent the upcoming governmental abuse of the revocation power.

 

[paw339]

However, the major issue in my opinion is not the cause of the revocation, but the revocation procedure without having a fair trial.

My biggest concern as well

 

[llvllagic_l3oy]

Immigration Minister Chris Alexander on Bill C-24, Syrian refugees and his hanging up on us

http://www.cbc.ca/news/immigration-minister-chris-alexander-hangs-up-on-as-it-happens-1.2672727

http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/features/2014/06/11/chris-alexander-citizenship-and-immigration-minister/

 

[dandash]

Any update on yesterdays meetings ??! did 3rd reading take place ?!

 

[Sharif11]

Any update on yesterdays meetings ??! did 3rd reading take place ?!

+1

 

[marcus66502]

Well you might want to direct the understanding of citizenship to the minister himself. That's his logic and based on what he said, he is implying that those who are well integrated into Canadian society are more likely to value it and less likely to abuse it. It's not rocket science, neither I'm I implying that it's absolute, however it common sense that those who have spent time here pre-pr are more likely to integrate faster into Canadian society than those who haven't.


Sorry but unless you're Albert Einstein or a Nobel Prize winner, you're gonna have a hard time convincing me that as a TFW or Foreign Student you've been "contributing" to society. What you've been doing is trying to improve your economic lot, which is fine by me as long as you call it what it is. Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, "contribute to society" is a cheap soundbyte designed to move people at an emotional level.


No disrespect to you, but the statement above is very one dimensional and lacks depth. Foreigners especially, TFW and International Students contribute significantly to Canada's economic well being. It's pretty obvious I don't think I need to delve into that in detail. The numbers don't lie check the score board...lol.


Again, soundbytes: "all immigrants are not equal" and "fighting for equality". Who are you to say that someone who got her permanent residence from outside Canada is less entitled to citizenship than someone who spent time here as a non-immigrant? I have to concede: I don't know that there is any objective standard on this. I'm pretty sure a Canadian citizen would argue that his spouse, whom he sponsored three years ago as a permanent resident should be given priority over anyone else. Try as I might, I can't think of any argument to offer against THAT.


I never said they were less entitled if they applied outside of Canada, but it does make sense that preference be given to those who have more experience, specifically Canadian experience. Most Canadian immigration streams reward, things like numbers of years of work experience, relatives in Canada, years of education e.t.c It's the same concept, the preference applies more to the process.

To answer your question Canada already prioritizes the processing spousal sponsorship application. The reason for this might not be obvious to the layman but one of the major objectives of Canadian immigration as stated in the IRPA is family reunification. Another major objective for Canadian immigration is economic stimulation, I don't think I need to explain how international students and temporary foreign workers contribute to that.


No, there's very little about it that's logical. People who have stayed here a lot of years by extending their worker or student status have done so in order to continue looking for ways to qualify to get permanent residence without having to first return home (where it would be much harder to do so). Once they get permanent residence and citizenship you'll see a huge increase in the trips they take abroad (mostly back to their home countries to brag to family and friends about their new PR Card or Passport). Don't insult us. Many of us have been through similar hoops ourselves. We know how it works.


I'm sorry you felt insulted but then again you make dangerous generalizations. Permanent residency and citizenship is something to be proud of and to celebrate. If you "brag" about it or abuse the system it tells a lot about that individuals character but it doesn't change the fact that those who have stayed here are more likely than any other group of people to integrate into Canadian society. Keep in mind that the emphasis is on more likely, it's not absolute.

You haven't answered my question (and I didn't think that you would): Hypothetically, if canadian citizenship was just a purely formal process and came with no benefits whatsoever (no passport, no right to vote, no right to work for the government), would you still spend $400 and apply for it?

This has nothing to do with the Minister. We're talking about people's understanding of citizenship. You can diddle daddle all you want but you're avoiding the real issue.

As for the students contributing to society, all you've said so far is that it's obvious. That doesn't prove anything. At least I'm basing what I say on my own observations over the years. You on the other hand have offered nothing in the way of concrete evidence. You're just asking me to take your claim on faith. Sorry, that's a no-can-do.

 

[Skakeholder]

Any update on yesterdays meetings ??! did 3rd reading take place ?!

The website is not updated yet showing Concurrence at Report Stage in the House of Commons (2014-06-10) as a last stage completed.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&billId=6401990

 

[sicko86]

The website is not updated yet showing Concurrence at Report Stage in the House of Commons (2014-06-10) as a last stage completed.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&billId=6401990

Do you mean it already passed the 3rd Stage but it is not showing?

 

[marcus66502]

I have been following posts here for a while and I'm particularly surprised by the assertion that foreign students do not contribute anything to the Canadian society. I'm surprised by this because every year Canadian universities come to my country to recruit students using enticing packages, trying to convince students with reasons why they should study in Canada. Is it purely an act of kindness on the part of these universities and the Canadian government? As a PhD student, my husband did groundbreaking research which resulted in several publications with his supervisors while still a student. He presented papers at conferences and was made to present at workshops to share with scientists groundbreaking research which by the way earned him job offers even before his graduation. Surely, this should count as contribution to society. Pls correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm wrong, then I need to be educated on what contribution to society means.
Wish everyone the best.
Cheers.

Canadian universities, like Canada in general, want attention because they're not very comfortable with the fact that they live in the shadow of the US. But in the particular case of universities, foreign students are a huge cash cow, to be milked to the last. And, yes, like someone else said it in here, they're hoping to look good and boost their ratings by claiming they have a lot of foreign students. It's all about appearances (like with everything else here).

Quite frankly, I don't know why anyone would agree to pay a tuition fee that's two to three times higher than what local students are charged. That would tell me that the university is not really about education but about making money off of me.

I have no doubt PhD students make contributions to knowledge but by and large students completing PhD dissertations are rare. The vast majority of foreign students are undergraduates and I still stand my ground on this issue: to the extent that they're studying, these students are building their own professional knowledge, hardly a contribution in the direction we're thinking of. And to the extent that they're abusing the system by pretending to be students but in reality working, I wouldn't call that contribution. The right word is FRAUD.

 

[Skakeholder]

Do you mean it already passed the 3rd Stage but it is not showing?

At least the 3rd Reading was scheduled for vote yesterday.

 

[MWM]

June 16, 2014
4:45 PM
Official Languages Study on the impacts of recent changes to the immigration system
Room 505, Victoria Building 140 Wellington Street

I think this means if iam not wrong that first reading ( senate ) will not be considered before June 17 2014

 

[MWM]

The first petition almost 36 K and counting .... hope this petition will do something .

http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/hon-chris-alexander-pc-mp-canadian-government-stop-bill-c-24-don-t-turn-millions-of-us-into-second-class-canadian-citizens

 

[Sharif11]

The first petition almost 36 K and counting .... hope this petition will do something .

http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/hon-chris-alexander-pc-mp-canadian-government-stop-bill-c-24-don-t-turn-millions-of-us-into-second-class-canadian-citizens

I doubt it!