Big day tomorrow . 21st August

[bestofluck]

kateg, just copy pasting things and critizing without any logic dosnt work. kateg we all have inolvement in the process and we know things u are copy pasting just for the salke of getting noticed. kateg the system is not fair it has drawbacks and we ar ejust discussing it. just be positive kateg u dont have to go to each site and critize people and demoralise them. thank you

 

[Hansdza]

Kateg,

I think you oversimplified the system. I personally believe the scoring system is not comprehensive. It emphasizes too much on EE PNP Certificate and LMIA. Me myself along with all my colleagues who finished our master's degree here in Canada need to wait for 1 year to claim points from Canadian experience. Otherwise our scores are too low to be invited. Some of us are even still struggling to find job after graduation.

Me and my friends have one common disadvantage. We are in our 30s so we lose lots of points from age alone. CLB nine and above, definitely more than 3 yrs PROFESSIONAL exp overseas. Again we still need that 1 yr Canadian experience to get ITA

 

[kyxy]

How do they suffer? If they get an ECA, they do much better from the education points. The points required stay around the 450 point range - my wife got an ITA with a Masters and only a couple years of work experience.

Suppose we take a 25 year old IT worker with a Bachelor. For the FSW criteria, with great english, that's 24 points. 21 points for education brings us to 45 points, 3 years of experience (graduated from a 4 year program at 22) gets us 11 points for 56. Add in 12 points for age, and we're at 68, a pass without even considering arranged employment or adaptability.

Now, let's look at CRS:

110 points for Age. 120 points for education, bringing us to 230. 136 points for English, plus another 25 points for Education under skill transferability. 50 points for foreign work experience, and that gets us 75 points for transferability, or a total of 441.

Someone like that would have gotten an invitation for the Ontario PNP. Suppose they wanted to get a regular ITA - how would they do it?

They could find an employer willing and able to get an LMIA. That would get them to 1041. Or, they could get accepted by a PNP (of which there are a number, and some of them permit applicants to establish ties through things like exploratory visits) to get the same score.

Suppose that's not an option. What else can they do?

First, they could go get a one year diploma in something. Added to their Bachelor's, this brings their score to 474. Problem solved.

What else?

They could learn some French. Get to a CLB7, and 12 more points (453) can be had, along with an ITA. Learn it well enough, and the score goes to 465.

How else?

Come to Canada as a student in a one year program, get the PGWP, and go get a year of Canadian work experience. When you're done, your score is 514. More than enough to get an ITA.

It's not automatic, but a foreign worker "that are highly educated, highly experienced, [have] the ideal age, and have excellent English" can get Permanent Residency if they are willing to work for it.

Well my comment is only towards the EE pool so we can disregard the "come to canada as a student". In your computation you even assume that the applicant nearly maximizes his score but still fell to 441. I highly doubt that all professionals have Masters degree or can have very high language tests. Lets be realistic, out 10 maybe 3 can make it like that. Still even if you have 420+ its still very low compared to those that have 750s and 800s.

My point is very simple, even if you score zero in all factors for CRS but got an employer/nominated you will still be in. It seems like FSWP is just a waste of time. You can ask even yourself why does the author for this whole immigration thing designed for FSWP to not have an employer and instead provide proof of funds when after qualifying for it, you will be in the pool where you have the thinnest chance of getting ITA.

Why does in FSWP an arranged employment is only 10/100 of its score that's 10% and when you come to the pool it will be 600/1200 that's 50% of CRS. That is just so imbalanced.

 

[kateg]

Kateg,

I think you oversimplified the system. I personally believe the scoring system is not comprehensive. It emphasizes too much on EE PNP Certificate and LMIA. Me myself along with all my colleagues who finished our master's degree here in Canada need to wait for 1 year to claim points from Canadian experience. Otherwise our scores are too low to be invited. Some of us are even still struggling to find job after graduation.

Me and my friends have one common disadvantage. We are in our 30s so we lose lots of points from age alone. CLB nine and above, definitely more than 3 yrs PROFESSIONAL exp overseas. Again we still need that 1 yr Canadian experience to get ITA

I can certainly understand your situation. Part of what they are trying to do with the CRS system is to attract younger people, with more reproductive years ahead of them. That's why they penalize points from your 30th birthday on. My wife is 30, with a master's degree, and three years of foreign work experience. We made the cutoff, but not by a whole lot.

Can you get to a CLB 10? That's potentially 12 more points, and might make the difference.

From the standpoint of CIC, if someone is struggling to find a job, even with a Canadian Master's degree, good english skills, and an open work permit, can you understand why they might be hesitant to make that person a Permanent Resident? Someone who can get a LMIA found an employer who needs labour desperately and is unable to fill it. That adds a job to the Canadian economy.

 

[kateg]

Well my comment is only towards the EE pool so we can disregard the "come to canada as a student". In your computation you even assume that the applicant nearly maximizes his score but still fell to 441. I highly doubt that all professionals have Masters degree or can have very high language tests. Lets be realistic, out 10 maybe 3 can make it like that. Still even if you have 420+ its still very low compared to those that have 750s and 800s.

Why disregard it? Many people in the EE pool came to Canada as a student. There's a reason CEC exists.

I don't assume the candidate maximizes anything. Someone spoke of a young candidate with a good English and a Bachelor's. I ran the numbers. The CRS is set up to favour Masters and higher.

My point is very simple, even if you score zero in all factors for CRS but got an employer/nominated you will still be in. It seems like FSWP is just a waste of time.

If the province says they need someone, the Federal government doesn't argue. Once the score dropped below 600, they could have simply exempted LMIA and PNP people from the CRS entirely. Had they done so, fewer people would be complaining about it.

You can ask even yourself why does the author for this whole immigration thing designed for FSWP to not have an employer and instead provide proof of funds when after qualifying for it, you will be in the pool where you have the thinnest chance of getting ITA.

If you meet the requirements, you get an ITA.

Why does in FSWP an arranged employment is only 10/100 of its score that's 10% and when you come to the pool it will be 600/1200 that's 50% of CRS. That is just so imbalanced.

450 is 75% of the points, and right around where the floor is. If you get 75% of the available points, you get an ITA. Or, if you get an LMIA/PNP, you get an ITA. It's not imbalanced at all.

 

[Hansdza]

I can certainly understand your situation. Part of what they are trying to do with the CRS system is to attract younger people, with more reproductive years ahead of them. That's why they penalize points from your 30th birthday on. My wife is 30, with a master's degree, and three years of foreign work experience. We made the cutoff, but not by a whole lot.

Can you get to a CLB 10? That's potentially 12 more points, and might make the difference.

From the standpoint of CIC, if someone is struggling to find a job, even with a Canadian Master's degree, good english skills, and an open work permit, can you understand why they might be hesitant to make that person a Permanent Resident? Someone who can get a LMIA found an employer who needs labour desperately and is unable to fill it. That adds a job to the Canadian economy.

Personally I will just wait until next month as by that time I will have exactly 1 yr exp. and greater chance to get ITA rather than spending more money and time to retake English test.

If what you said is true then the Canadian immigration should not have FSW stream for EE.. AT ALL... this type of applicant doesn't have a job offer and definitely they will be struggling to find job due to their lack of Canadian education and experience. Doesn't make any sense to me

 

[kyxy]

Why disregard it? Many people in the EE pool came to Canada as a student. There's a reason CEC exists.

I don't assume the candidate maximizes anything. Someone spoke of a young candidate with a good English and a Bachelor's. I ran the numbers. The CRS is set up to favour Masters and higher.


If the province says they need someone, the Federal government doesn't argue. Once the score dropped below 600, they could have simply exempted LMIA and PNP people from the CRS entirely. Had they done so, fewer people would be complaining about it.

If you meet the requirements, you get an ITA.

450 is 75% of the points, and right around where the floor is. If you get 75% of the available points, you get an ITA. Or, if you get an LMIA/PNP, you get an ITA. It's not imbalanced at all.

I don't know if you are being realistic or not. The 441 computation you gave me has Masters degree with perfect English. Dude lets be realistic, only 2/10 would probably get that especially for counties that doesn't value English that much. Even my sister who is an Audit Director at Delloite can't get perfect IELTS. So do you really think those scored 700-800 are better than those have 350-450?

Can we really conclude that 750 dudes are more economically useful than 350 ones? I don't think so. They got past 600 because of arranged employment. That doesn't do good in Canada either. The ones that has the ideal age, good education, credentials, and experience might be better in the long term because they are tested and proven right from the start. I'm not arguing that scoring 475 to 600 is meaningless. If a person can do it then that's pretty good. What I'm pointing out is the fact that they just start drawing from top scores which more likely will start form 800. What if in the next months to come all applicants score 700+, how would this 500s even got a chance to have ITA?

 

[manidhatt]

Draw is out 456 cut off with 1523 ITAs

 

[purplesnow]

I don't know if you are being realistic or not. The 441 computation you gave me has Masters degree with perfect English. Dude lets be realistic, only 2/10 would probably get that especially for counties that doesn't value English that much. Even my sister who is an Audit Director at Delloite can't get perfect IELTS. So do you really think those scored 700-800 are better than those have 350-450?

Can we really conclude that 750 dudes are more economically useful than 350 ones? I don't think so. They got past 600 because of arranged employment. That doesn't do good in Canada either. The ones that has the ideal age, good education, credentials, and experience might be better in the long term because they are tested and proven right from the start. I'm not arguing that scoring 475 to 600 is meaningless. If a person can do it then that's pretty good. What I'm pointing out is the fact that they just start drawing from top scores which more likely will start form 800. What if in the next months to come all applicants score 700+, how would this 500s even got a chance to have ITA?

Not to get too involved here but, if they have an LMIA, they already are more economically useful. they have skills Canada needs and have been approved by the government and employers to work here. so bearing in mind, if you have an LMIA or PNP, there's no need to get an ECA. It's optional so many of them don't. 750-ish scores may not be a real reflection of their abilities or the contribution they can and do make here.
Similarly, quite a lot of PNP streams are employer driven so, in the same vein, they have an employer saying they need them so again, are economically useful.

 

[Hansdza]

I don't know if you are being realistic or not. The 441 computation you gave me has Masters degree with perfect English. Dude lets be realistic, only 2/10 would probably get that especially for counties that doesn't value English that much. Even my sister who is an Audit Director at Delloite can't get perfect IELTS. So do you really think those scored 700-800 are better than those have 350-450?

Can we really conclude that 750 dudes are more economically useful than 350 ones? I don't think so. They got past 600 because of arranged employment. That doesn't do good in Canada either. The ones that has the ideal age, good education, credentials, and experience might be better in the long term because they are tested and proven right from the start. I'm not arguing that scoring 475 to 600 is meaningless. If a person can do it then that's pretty good. What I'm pointing out is the fact that they just start drawing from top scores which more likely will start form 800. What if in the next months to come all applicants score 700+, how would this 500s even got a chance to have ITA?

I would suggest that Canadian immigration revise the current CRS tools as follow

1. People with LMIA and EE PNP should be set aside from the pool. No points for them as they will have special immigration treatment
2. People who already got ITA and refused or been rejected should be moved to another pool. They will have special treatment too
3. The rest of applicant (which is the majority should be in one pool) classified by NOC

Then we will see how the system actually works.

 

[kateg]

I don't know if you are being realistic or not. The 441 computation you gave me has Masters degree with perfect English. Dude lets be realistic, only 2/10 would probably get that especially for counties that doesn't value English that much. Even my sister who is an Audit Director at Delloite can't get perfect IELTS. So do you really think those scored 700-800 are better than those have 350-450?

It's not a matter of better (in some sense of objective worth), rather, better for Canada. And yes, I would argue that they are better for Canada.

As for the IELTS, it's harsh. I have a perfect CELPIP. My IETLS came out to 9.0/8.0/8.5/9.0. Your sister might be better served taking CELPIP.

Realistically speaking, people like that (Masters with perfect English) do exist. She's friends with someone from Iran who has a Ph.D and perfect English. It's doable, but rare.

The ones that has the ideal age, good education, credentials, and experience might be better in the long term because they are tested and proven right from the start. I'm not arguing that scoring 475 to 600 is meaningless. If a person can do it then that's pretty good. What I'm pointing out is the fact that they just start drawing from top scores which more likely will start form 800. What if in the next months to come all applicants score 700+, how would this 500s even got a chance to have ITA?

They may be better in the long term, but from Canada's standpoint, there's an employer today with a Labour shortage, and no way to fill it with Canadians. That's their priority.

 

[kyxy]

Not to get too involed here but, if they have an LMIA, they already are more economically useful. they have skills Canada needs and have been approved by the government and employers to work here. so bearing in mind, if you have an LMIA or PNP, there's no need to get an ECA. It's optional so many of them don't. 750-ish scores may not be a real reflection of their abilities or the contribution they can and do make here.

Its ok man this is just a discussion. I agree with you, scoring 750ish may not be a real reflection of their abilities so as scoring 350ish. But when you say having LMIA makes you more economically useful is not always the truth. I've got friends that got direct hired with jobs that doesn't require much of a quality as a person and as a professional. They just got in because they do what the job tells them to do. There is a reason why they have these quality factors that they asses.

Let us put it this way. When a person do job hunting on the internet and a Canadian employer sees it and hires him (this would likely be the case), the employer wouldn't know if he is good or bad. The employer just base on the applicants internet profile. This does not guarantee economic boost. The applicant might have bad traits, bad decision making, poor crisis management, cannot work outside comfort zone, worst communication skills and etc. Whereas highly educated candidate together with superb working ethics and skills who are in FSWP that don't have an employer might do the trick.

 

[kyxy]

It's not a matter of better (in some sense of objective worth), rather, better for Canada. And yes, I would argue that they are better for Canada.

As for the IELTS, it's harsh. I have a perfect CELPIP. My IETLS came out to 9.0/8.0/8.5/9.0. Your sister might be better served taking CELPIP.

Realistically speaking, people like that (Masters with perfect English) do exist. She's friends with someone from Iran who has a Ph.D and perfect English. It's doable, but rare.

They may be better in the long term, but from Canada's standpoint, there's an employer today with a Labour shortage, and no way to fill it with Canadians. That's their priority.

I am not saying that having Masters degree and getting perfect IELTS is impossible. I am just telling that it doesn't apply to the majority of the applicants. Yes you can have that, maybe 20ppl out of 100.

 

[kateg]

Personally I will just wait until next month as by that time I will have exactly 1 yr exp. and greater chance to get ITA rather than spending more money and time to retake English test.

It sounds like the system is working, then.

 

[Hansdza]

It sounds like the system is working, then.

For people who already in Canada and have or will have Canadian experience (like me). Yes.

For pure FSW. Not sure