Applying Outland & Waiting Inland

[Luckyman]

I agree... It's dishonest, and the encouragement from cic is aimed towards those already in Canada...

Example.... you meet someone in Canada and then marry or co habitation then apply for pr.

Planning a visit visa, or tourist visa purposefully for intent to apply for pr is dishonest.

I also don't see how showing a return plane ticket then canceling it after wrongful representation at the border isn't dishonest.

There is a loophole that is obviously being exploited at the expense of others who are apart.

Cheers!

 

[bartjones]

I don't see any dishonesty in it. I'm in the same position as the OP. I'm a Canadian citizen married to a Korean and living in Korea. I've applied for her PR and, because that process is so ridiculously long, will return to Canada before it's complete. My wife has the right to accompany me and, at the discretion of CIC, request and be granted a visitor's visa to enter the country with me for 6 months. At the conclusion of that 6 months she will either leave or avail herself of her legal right to extend her visitor's visa. Where's the dishonesty in that?

 

[treefour]

Thanks for the replies (minus the one about being dishonest).


1) Once we move to Canada (while the PR is processing outland) obviously we must notify CIC of our Canadian address in order for the PR or other correspondance to be mailed out...right?

2) Can my wife work while the PR is in process or the PR must be in-hand?

3) What documenst would my wife need to present at the airport when we land in Canada? ( return air ticket, her passport, and....?)

thanks!

1. Not sure if you MUST do it, but it would be wise so you get any communications from CIC in a timely fashion. (We changed ours and if my wife has to return home we will change it back)

2. No she can't work or study, while waiting for the PR. She can volunteer though if she chooses.

3. We showed up and showed them her return ticket, our receipt for the PR, a copy of our household registration from Taiwan showing how long we've lived together and when our marriage was registered and a letter from my family stating we had a place to stay and any support if we needed it.

While he looked at the stuff, he seemed to be more interested in watching my wife and kids, and seeing how they interacted I guess. Either way he said he had zero concern about her doing a runner and ask how long of a visa did we want.

For the people saying it's dishonest, I don't think you know what you are talking about. I asked the IO about it and he said while it is up to the discretion of each IO and entry is not assured, it is allowed if you can show the ability to leave the country if needed and that the rules are followed.

 

[Rob_TO]

I agree... It's dishonest, and the encouragement from cic is aimed towards those already in Canada...

Example.... you meet someone in Canada and then marry or co habitation then apply for pr.

Planning a visit visa, or tourist visa purposefully for intent to apply for pr is dishonest.

I also don't see how showing a return plane ticket then canceling it after wrongful representation at the border isn't dishonest.

There is a loophole that is obviously being exploited at the expense of others who are apart.

Cheers!

It's not a loophole or misrepresenting.

They would come to Canada under a 6-month tourist visa while the PR application is in process. If the 6-months expire and the process is still happening, they are prepared to go back to their home country if they can't renew the tourist visa. However if the COPR is issued during the time in Canada, it makes perfect sense to then cancel the return airplane ticket and stay here.

Plus, some people with apps in process tell the immigration officers here that they have an app in process, and intend to wait in Canada with partner until they get COPR. Immigration usually says that is fine, and there is such a thing called dual-intent visa.

So to the Canadian govt, CIC, immigration and border officers.... this practice is perfectly acceptable and fine and even encouraged to be with your loved ones. Its just a few misguided posters that seem to think otherwise.

 

[Luckyman]

Just to clarify a couple things:

They would come to Canada under a 6-month tourist visa while the PR application is in process. If the 6-months expire and the process is still happening, they are prepared to go back to their home country if they can't renew the tourist visa. However if the COPR is issued during the time in Canada, it makes perfect sense to then cancel the return airplane ticket and stay here.

I believe if there is sponsorship approval, there is implied status and they don't need to renew tourist visa, therefore the return ticket is not needed. (if crossing after sponsorship approval). However before approval I also know of several cases where immigration officers do not issue 6 month, but in fact only issue couple months after lots of questions and accusations.

Plus, some people with apps in process tell the immigration officers here that they have an app in process, and intend to wait in Canada with partner until they get COPR. Immigration usually says that is fine, and there is such a thing called dual-intent visa.

If they are in fact truthful, then it isn't dishonest....
However the government allowing this happen, IMHO is biasing dishonesty on their behalf....I mean, they aren't really outland, now are they?

So to the Canadian govt, CIC, immigration and border officers.... this practice is perfectly acceptable and fine and even encouraged to be with your loved ones. Its just a few misguided posters that seem to think otherwise.

As I mentioned regarding the cases above....it isn't "perfectly" acceptable as you state it. I think CIC really needs to clarify this in clear documentation to both prospective sponsors and applicants as well an office and border staff.

Seems there are 2 schools of thought on this across the board....and with so many stages that could go either way clarification is needed.

 

[DGT]

I don't see how it could be dishonest when you walk up to the CBSA officer and say, "Hi there! I intend to stay in Canada as a visitor while my PR is being processed. Here's my return ticket, here's all my details, here's my proof of funds and here's all my application information! Thanks very much! I look forward to pumping lots of money in the Canadian economy and taking nothing out of it for the next 6 months!".

Hehe. Ultimately, the CBSA officer makes a call as to your intent and means when you enter the country. Your wife, as a Korean citizen and therefore visa-exempt poses an extremely "low risk" of overstay, illegal work and an extremely high chance of having her PR approved.

Just always be honest with the CBSA and you won't have a problem.

One of the major things that makes an outland application better is the right of appeal, which I believe you don't get for an inland application.

 

[Luckyman]

I don't understand how being married to a Canadian resident poses low risk to overstay?

 

[DGT]

I don't understand how being married to a Canadian resident poses low risk to overstay?

It's not being married to a resident. It's being of a nationality with a relative quality of life to Canada, therefore not likely to be seeking a MOC. Statistically, visa exempt nationals have a much higher rate of "playing by the rules". They will of course still be looking to see a return ticket or proof of funds in case the PR is not approved, or not approved in time.

 

[Luckyman]

ok...i see your point, but look at it this way

If their sponsorship application was declined during either stage, what are the chances of them staying together in Canada....I mean, wouldn't many married couples want to be together regardless. I understand that the potential of genuineness is greater from more equal countries....but it does happen.

On the flip side, lets say i apply for visit visa from Manila for my wife....how is it different, yet most refusals are based on risk of overstay.

But because quality of life is different which bases the visa exemption, also assess the risk of abusing the rules such as working under the table etc.

Well, regarding that, I know it's probably harder to pay rent in the US than it is in the Philippines, therefore, the risk is the same or close because as a Canadian citizen, shouldn't I be lumped into the visa exempt nationals that play by the rules category?

Maybe they should allow, or "encourage" visit visa application at same time as sponsorship application, but at the expense of more background checks for me....you know, to prove that I'll play by the rules....it's like gov. saying that they don't trust me either just because of who I love and married.

 

[Rattles]

I agree... It's dishonest, and the encouragement from cic is aimed towards those already in Canada...

Example.... you meet someone in Canada and then marry or co habitation then apply for pr.

Planning a visit visa, or tourist visa purposefully for intent to apply for pr is dishonest.

I also don't see how showing a return plane ticket then canceling it after wrongful representation at the border isn't dishonest.

There is a loophole that is obviously being exploited at the expense of others who are apart.

Cheers!

How is this at the expense of anyone?

Also, people who are already applying for sponsorship are not much of a risk as they have shown they want to enter the country and stay legally. Not many people are willing to risk their future after spending so much time trying to do it the right way.

I just don't see any dishonesty in this at all. If you are not working and you are just here waiting for PR how is that any different than someone else on a tourist visa?

 

[Rob_TO]

On the flip side, lets say i apply for visit visa from Manila for my wife....how is it different, yet most refusals are based on risk of overstay.

There is a higher chance of refusal because based on collected stats and data over many years, people from Philippines have a higher rate of overstaying their visa, vs someone from say Australia or the UK. There is a reason Canada separates all countries in the world into visa-required and visa-exempt categories... and why they move countries in and out of these lists yearly. Its all based on stats and how people on visas here actually act. Its all risk assessment.

And as was just mentioned... letting in people from visa-exempt countries is NOT at the expense of anyone else. Each country is analyzed for risk independently... so because Canada has allowed in say 10 people from visa-exempt countries, doesn't mean they must now reject 10 from somewhere else.

 

[Luckyman]

So because I'm married to someone from a visa required country... Myself as a Canadian citizen, is also lumped in the same category..... And THAT as demonstrated by the immigration system is dishonest, racial and cultural bias, and goes against the majority of what Canada stands for!

I'd also love to see these stats...because the manila vo has one of the highest approval rates for spousal sponsorship and the majority of filipino I know ( which is A LOT) would never ever ever dis obey any rules or guidelines. Which leads me to believe the stats are biased themselves, and more so based on quality of life and assumptions.

 

[sariss]

It is not dishonest. We applied outland and he came here shortly after. The border officials knew we had an outland application going and they did not care. Nor did they care when we flagpoled and re-entered. If it was considered dishonest they would have something to say about it.

 

[Luckyman]

To be honest.... It doesn't really matter is the applicant is from a visa exempt country who's vo is responsible for only visa exempt applicants.... What pisses me off is Manila vo is responsible for Philippines, Japan, and South Korea.... And citizens of Philippines are the only one who require visa... So this behavior shouldn't allowed from said vo because it affects all those who are affected by previously mentioned circumstances

 

[DGT]

So because I'm married to someone from a visa required country... Myself as a Canadian citizen, is also lumped in the same category..... And THAT as demonstrated by the immigration system is dishonest, racial and cultural bias, and goes against the majority of what Canada stands for!

I'd also love to see these stats...because the manila vo has one of the highest approval rates for spousal sponsorship and the majority of filipino I know ( which is A LOT) would never ever ever dis obey any rules or guidelines. Which leads me to believe the stats are biased themselves, and more so based on quality of life and assumptions.

I did look it up there, and you are in fact correct. Manila has a very high rate of acceptance 91%. It is unfortunate that the immigration system punishes people the way it does. My wife who is 4th generation Canadian, had a hell of a time getting her visa to be with me in the UK, despite having a job offer and proof of our common law relationship. It took 6 months to wade through the nonsense.

I feel for you sir, and I hope that your partner can join you soon!