Applying for CEC as research assistant (NOC 4012)

[asbereth]

Hi all,

Thanks for your valuable discussion. I'm a RA/TA at an Ontario university. I applied under CEC in August 2012 (before CEC rules has changed and graduate and worker options were combined). I applied as a graduate with one year full time equivalent RA experience. I haven't heard yet but I'll let you know as soon as I do. I came here to share the notes of a meeting that my university held with CIC representatives. The full document can be found here: cie.utoronto.ca/Programs/Student-Advising/Frequently-Asked-Permanent-Residency-Questions.htm

Hi RA_toronto, don't worry. I personally know two people, and another one which was a friend of a friend, and they all already landed, despite mostly claiming non-taxable RA experience for their CEC application LAST YEAR. If you applied before January 2013, TA/RA would be accepted (I have yet to come across anybody who applied using only NOC 4012 get accepted this year).

The most important thing is your letter of reference. I hope you have included the necessary leading statement, and also job duties. A lot of people applying under NOC 4012 were rejected because of job description mismatch. Check the HRSDC website for NOC 4012, and see if your letter matches those. If not, better update CIC about it before it's too late (this is NOT a joking matter, since you applied on August 2012, assessment for your file is approaching fast, so better check whether your job descriptions match those of NOC 4012 on the website).

Another thing you need to worry about is number of hours. I hope you have at least 3,900 hours in the period of three years preceding your date of application (so from August 2009 to August 2012), which would be tough, give that you must have claimed at least 25.5 hours per week over these three years.

Most of my friends applied under graduate stream (which necessitated one to have a Canadian degree), so they only needed 1,950 hours within the last two years.

 

[RA_toronto]

Hi asbereth,

Glad to hear about those positive cases. Thanks for your warnings. I wrote the letter carefully following the job description of NOC 4012, and I have more than 1950 hours and a master's degree from Canada. I hope the officer would be satisfied with that, fingers crossed.

 

[asbereth]

Hi asbereth,

Glad to hear about those positive cases. Thanks for your warnings. I wrote the letter carefully following the job description of NOC 4012, and I have more than 1950 hours and a master's degree from Canada. I hope the officer would be satisfied with that, fingers crossed.

If you don't mind, you can share your letter with us at the PhD stream forum (people there are the most qualified to give comments on NOC 4012 job descriptions).

Also, make sure to count the 1,950 hours within two years preceding the date of application, and AFTER your Master's convocation date. Say you fulfilled all requirements on April, but convocated on June. Even though you may have started your PhD program on May, you should not start counting hours from May, but rather, from June

 

[RA_toronto]

Oh, I didn't know count starts after the convocation! I recounted and I have 1947 hours! The sad thing is I got my employment letter almost 1 month before I applied so I could have easily made it 1950 hours if I knew that. Do you think I should send another letter with a later date?

Here is the letter provided by my supervisor. I know you said to put in the PhD stream forum but I applied under CEC so I don't want to confuse them and get confused myself:

..., 2012

To Whom It May Concern:

I confirm that ... is a Graduate Research Assistant and a Graduate Teaching Assistant at the ....

As a Graduate Research Assistant, her responsibilities include conducting literature reviews, surveys and other research for use in scholarly publication; compiling research results and assisting in the analysis of results; and the preparation of scholarly publications. ... commenced employment as a Graduate Research Assistant on ..., 2010. She has been employed part time working at least 20 hrs/week for the past 99 weeks (1980 hours in total), at an annual salary of ...

As a Graduate Teaching Assistant, her responsibilities include conducting tutorials to supplement lectures, assisting in the preparation and administration of examinations, and grading examinations and assignments. ... commenced employment as a Graduate Teaching Assistant on ..., 2010. During this time she has contained 2 (two) Graduate Teaching Assistantships. Her first Graduate Teaching Assistantship was between ..., 2010 and ..., 2010, working 6.5 hrs/week for 13 weeks (84.5 hours in total), at an hourly salary of $... (+...% vacation pay). Her second Graduate Teaching Assistantship was between ..., 2011 and ..., 2011, working 5.5 hrs/week for 13 weeks (71.5 hours in total), at an hourly salary of $... (+...% vacation pay).

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Sincerely yours

 

[asbereth]

Oh, I didn't know count starts after the convocation! I recounted and I have 1947 hours! The sad thing is I got my employment letter almost 1 month before I applied so I could have easily made it 1950 hours if I knew that. Do you think I should send another letter with a later date?

Hi RA_toronto,

Can you share the exact timeline of your application? Like, when did you graduate, when did you get your study permit for the new program, when did you start working as an RA/TA?

If after taking everything into account, you're still lacking the three hours, you can send them a letter that will redo all the calculations of all the hours up to the date of application submission. This has worked for PhD stream, where applicants update job descriptions for example, provided that CPP-Ottawa has not yet assessed your file.

 

[RA_toronto]

Can you share the exact timeline of your application? Like, when did you graduate, when did you get your study permit for the new program, when did you start working as an RA/TA?

Hi asbereth,

I sent my application on August 22nd, 2012. I've been working as RA since September 1st, 2010. TA dates are more complicated but in total I worked 156 hours as TA from September 1st, 2010 to August 22nd, 2012.

My master's transcript clearly says that "master's degree completion: August 16, 2010". My convocation date is October 23rd, 2010. I sent both documents with my application. That doesn't make sense to me if they take the convocation date as the completion date.

I would give more details on my study permit and the dates of my TA but I'm hesitant to share those on a public forum. Please take my word that I have worked well over 1950 hours if I start counting from September 1 but 1947 hours if I start counting from October 23rd, and during whole time I had a valid study permit.

Thanks for your guidance.

 

[shervinto]

Hi RA-Toronto,
Have you heard about the status of your application yet? My application is very similar to yours and I submitted it on Aug 14, 2012. Unfortunately, my application was rejected for the exact same reason raised in this topic (work experience during full time study not calculated). Is there any reference to show that this new rule was in effect since Jan 2, 2013? I am requesting a reconsideration of the decision on my file and if I have a valid reference for the above statement that would help a lot.
Many thanks,
Shervin

 

[jes_ON]

Is there any reference to show that this new rule was in effect since Jan 2, 2013?

www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op25a-eng.pdf‎

 

[elnazdel]

Hi All

I am on the same boat! I applied on Sept 17th! I haven't heard anything back yet. I applied for GCMS notes and it says "there is no proof that RA was not towards your phd". I am really worried too! I know many who landed applying under same stream as us! But it seems rules are not very stable.
Shervin, I'm sorry to hear about your case! would you please provide us with the exact reason they rejected you? Thank you!

Hi RA-Toronto,
Have you heard about the status of your application yet? My application is very similar to yours and I submitted it on Aug 14, 2012. Unfortunately, my application was rejected for the exact same reason raised in this topic (work experience during full time study not calculated). Is there any reference to show that this new rule was in effect since Jan 2, 2013? I am requesting a reconsideration of the decision on my file and if I have a valid reference for the above statement that would help a lot.
Many thanks,
Shervin

 

[pari_p]

Hi RA-Toronto,
Have you heard about the status of your application yet? My application is very similar to yours and I submitted it on Aug 14, 2012. Unfortunately, my application was rejected for the exact same reason raised in this topic (work experience during full time study not calculated). Is there any reference to show that this new rule was in effect since Jan 2, 2013? I am requesting a reconsideration of the decision on my file and if I have a valid reference for the above statement that would help a lot.
Many thanks,
Shervin

so sorry to hear this!! I have also applied in NOC 4012, waiting for my GCMS notes to see what they say! Its very unfair that even though we applied way before the new rules kicked in they are applying the new rules to the people who applied under old one!

its also very frustrating that they took off the student stream.... people who are working while studying dont get a chance to apply...

 

[RA_toronto]

Hi shervinto,

No I haven't get any update on my application yet. I ordered the GCMS notes about a month ago but I haven't received them, possibly due to the strike. I'm worried too, I'll update you guys if I hear anything. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any reference to show when the rules came affect. However, the application form we filled is clearly different than the form available now, and the previous one doesn't have explicit statement on studying. Wouldn't stating that be enough to ask for reconsideration? I'm not sure what else to do except applying under the PhD stream...

 

[pari_p]

Hi shervinto,

No I haven't get any update on my application yet. I ordered the GCMS notes about a month ago but I haven't received them, possibly due to the strike. I'm worried too, I'll update you guys if I hear anything. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any reference to show when the rules came affect. However, the application form we filled is clearly different than the form available now, and the previous one doesn't have explicit statement on studying. Wouldn't stating that be enough to ask for reconsideration? I'm not sure what else to do except applying under the PhD stream...

Did you order GCMS before? If yes, who was the officer assigned to your file?

The gov makes it so hard for us to make the case since they pull out all the website and old rules! But since lots of people got PR based on RA, if we all are rejected, we should certainly go to MP's office and a good lawyer to seek help!

PhD stream is crazy, they want a student to have $11,000 in their bank account!!!! Just ridiculous!!

 

[pari_p]

RA/TA is an on-campus job (ask international office of your university or concern department). As it is an on-campus job, students do not require any permit other than student permit (such as work-permit, off-campus work-permit) to perform their duties and get SIN number with just student permit and job-offer.

The new rule, not to consider job experience gathered during full-time study, is for those applications that are received on or after Jan. 2, 2013. Previously, CIC used to considered RA/TA as valid work for work experience needed for CEC application. I some people that I know (4 out of 4) got their PR with the old rule.

This is what I think, also some other members. I would suggest to contact cic regarding this to be in safe side or you can apply without that if you wish. It would be great if you share your experience in this forum once you submit your application.

Best of luck!!
Conf. App

Would you happen to know the link/archive that would say that any employment in last 2 yrs is allowed? Since some of the late 2012 applicants are getting rejected even under old rules (clearly January 2013 rules are being applied to them).. it would be great to have a documentation that would show that there was no rule in late 2012 that would not allow RA hours to be counted as a part of the total hours needed to be eligible.

Thanks a ton!

 

[pari_p]

Guys, I am September Applicant.... I got GCMS notes today and it says:

""Letter provided from the PA's supervisor confirms the work of research assistant. However, the letter explains that the research conducted by the PA is directly in support of her studies and thus does not qualify as work."

Please help me what to do????? :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

 

[asbereth]

Would you happen to know the link/archive that would say that any employment in last 2 yrs is allowed? Since some of the late 2012 applicants are getting rejected even under old rules (clearly January 2013 rules are being applied to them).. it would be great to have a documentation that would show that there was no rule in late 2012 that would not allow RA hours to be counted as a part of the total hours needed to be eligible.

Hi pari_p, you can start by checking the previous versions of IRPR, specifically the subsection 87 as it pertains to the Canadian Experience Class.

If you check R87(3)a, you'll find the provision that excludes work experience gained during full-time study

(3) For the purposes of subsection (2),

(a) any period of employment during which the foreign national was engaged in full-time study shall not be included in calculating a period of work experience;

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2002-227/page-39.html#docCont

There was no such provision before the rule was amended on January 2013. I think the old rule even mentioned that your work experience may be gained while having a study permit (I could not find the specifics though).

The following is the link to the old version of IRPR, and it contains subsections that pertain to the old version of CEC (still R87):

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2002-227/20121215/P1TT3xt3.html

Just FYI, I personally know two individuals who became PR using only NOC 4012 work experience under CEC. They applied last year (March 2012 and May 2012) as well.

Unless the new rule has been applied pro-actively to applicants from last year as well, then as long as your application was received before December 31 2012, I don't see any reason why it should be rejected based on having gained your work experience while a full-time student.