Applying for CEC as research assistant (NOC 4012)

[pari_p]

I personally know two people who got their PR based on RA work, which was non-taxable. They applied last year (March and May 2012), and there should not be any difference in CEC rules between early last year and late last year.

The definition of 'work', pursuant to IRPR Subsection 2, which states that

is no different for either CEC or FSWP purpose. Yes, it is true that CURRENTLY (starting January 1 2013), pursuant to IRPR 87.1(3),

But these guys applied before January 2013, and unless the new stipulation has been applied retroactively, there should not be any reason in rejecting the applications based on the fact that the work experience had been gained while being a full-time student.

There should also not be a problem in declaring work experience, which is remunerated on incomes declared on the T4As. Last year, on February, a representative from the Detroit visa office came to our university, and she made it clear that this would not be a problem.

And in fact, it hasn't been a problem for a lot of people. I know tons of people who only claimed TA/RA (and with mostly non-taxable RA work experience) who already landed and became PR's.

I think its the RC-6262 guy/gul who is hating NOC 4012 and finding new ways to reject us for no stupid reason..... I am going to MP's office tom and I am also consulting Lawyer..... I looked up all the regulations that existed last year and no where it says that my work experience cannot be gained during full time study....! The work defined says that the person has to be paid/employed.... In my supervisor's letter it clearly states that I am employed as RA with $XXXX per year.

Also, it has nothing to do with nationality... I guess there is this one visa officer who has gone crazy thats it!

 

[jsm0085]

I get where you are coming from re previous applicants. However, when looking at the definition: -

"
...“work” means an activity for which wages are paid or commission is earned,...

The issue the VO is identifying is that you aren't receiving wages or commission - you are receiving funding to support you while you complete a period of research / study.

...or that is in direct competition with the activities of Canadian citizens or permanent residents in the Canadian labour market. ...

You aren't actually in the labour market - you are studying.
"

 

[asbereth]

I get where you are coming from re previous applicants. However, when looking at the definition: -

"
...“work” means an activity for which wages are paid or commission is earned,...

The issue the VO is identifying is that you aren't receiving wages or commission - you are receiving funding to support you while you complete a period of research / study.

...or that is in direct competition with the activities of Canadian citizens or permanent residents in the Canadian labour market. ...

You aren't actually in the labour market - you are studying.
"

Based on that definition, if you are paid for the work that you have done, then by definition you have done 'work', thus, gained 'work experience'. Earning wage here basically just means getting paid for what you have done, and so long you can prove you are getting paid to perform work (or unit of work), then you should qualify.

This is not just my interpretation, but it has been the practice by the immigration officers as well, especially true for last year where there have been a surge of people who applied using NOC 4012 as their work experience under the PhD stream, and a lot of these applicants are getting paid through funding which had been declared on T4As rather than T4s.

In fact, post-doctoral assignments too sometimes arrange funding through non-taxable means, and these incomes would show up on their T4As rather than T4s. We know that post-doctoral experience is accepted.

The problem here is never the fact that the incomes are declared on T4As, but rather, the officers are retro-actively applying new rules for CEC to old applicants, which I don't think is fair.

 

[pari_p]

I agree with 'asbereth'!! Given that part of my pay comes from TA and a part from RA I dont get why it wouldn't be counted as work. My summer's pay is completely comes from RA work! I would have to be homeless in summer months, if I wasn't paid for my RA work!

Given about it being in direct competition with PR and Canadian Citizens, it is competitive because not everyone gets into PhD.... We have to compete with others just like people have to do if they are going in for an interview at a company. Since I get paid for the research I do for the university and my supervisor, I should be counted as "labour" work.

If they worry that we are not in mainstream market, we will eventually be in like 2 years or so after we graduate!

Since it looks like I will get rejected, I was looking up FSW-PhD stream (for which I will be eligible on 1st May), to my surprise, people use the same RA and TA hours to show 1 year continuous full time work experience.... its strange how it counts in one class of application but not in the other!

For now, I called MP's office for appointment, I will go and talk to them and see what they say! Also, looking for lawyers at this point! If I get rejected, I should atleast try to bring it to their attention that no rule existed in September 2012 that would make me ineligible to apply using my RA and TA experience!

If they say that any work done during full time study than I am not sure why they are counting TA work... because that is also done during study!

 

[elnazdel]

Hi Pari, it's a good idea we apply under FSW-phd stream... I am already eligible. But again using RA/TA work is quite risky there... So far I know some people who got their PR and who got rejected... So I assume still RA/TA is not very promising

I agree with 'asbereth'!! Given that part of my pay comes from TA and a part from RA I dont get why it wouldn't be counted as work. My summer's pay is completely comes from RA work! I would have to be homeless in summer months, if I wasn't paid for my RA work!

Given about it being in direct competition with PR and Canadian Citizens, it is competitive because not everyone gets into PhD.... We have to compete with others just like people have to do if they are going in for an interview at a company. Since I get paid for the research I do for the university and my supervisor, I should be counted as "labour" work.

If they worry that we are not in mainstream market, we will eventually be in like 2 years or so after we graduate!

Since it looks like I will get rejected, I was looking up FSW-PhD stream (for which I will be eligible on 1st May), to my surprise, people use the same RA and TA hours to show 1 year continuous full time work experience.... its strange how it counts in one class of application but not in the other!

For now, I called MP's office for appointment, I will go and talk to them and see what they say! Also, looking for lawyers at this point! If I get rejected, I should atleast try to bring it to their attention that no rule existed in September 2012 that would make me ineligible to apply using my RA and TA experience!

If they say that any work done during full time study than I am not sure why they are counting TA work... because that is also done during study!

 

[pari_p]

Hi Pari, it's a good idea we apply under FSW-phd stream... I am already eligible. But again using RA/TA work is quite risky there... So far I know some people who got their PR and who got rejected... So I assume still RA/TA is not very promising

not sure why they call it PhD stream if they do not want to use the TA/RA hours! Not everyone take a break from their studies to gain work experience!

 

[pari_p]

Guys, my MP's office got back to me.... and this is what they said:

"I have spoken to CIC who advised there is no decision yet on your file. I am told that research for studies does not qualify as work experience.
If you feel the work experience is not part of your studies, and should qualify, I suggest you write CIC directly ASAP, before a decision is made on your file, and advise all the work hours you have and why they should be included."

I am drafting an email now

 

[nicole1006]

I wouldn't want to disappoint you but mine said review required too, and I got the rejection the following day. Hopefully, yours will be different and get accepted. Please update us once you hear back from CIC. Good luck!

Where did it say review required ?

 

[RA_toronto]

This is the most ridiculous case of refusal I have seen on this forum. T4 and T4A are based on how your funding agency and university choose to pay you and has nothing to do with the type of work you do or how many hours you spend. They're treating it as if you work for two different employers. This indicates they are clinching to straws to find a reason for rejection. Which makes me suspect you are a male and Iranian.

No, I'm female and not Iranian. I don't think it's about nationality.

 

[RA_toronto]

Where did it say review required ?

Under eligibility: eligibility assessment in my GCMS notes.

 

[unfrgvn]

Hello Everyone,

I have posted this question before , but I think here I will probably get a clear idea . My question is those of you have applied for PR (CEC) using only NOC 4012 (RA/TA Duties)
Did you apply with your T4A or T4?
Did you only got T4A or you got both T4A and T4 as well from your University?

Those of you have been rejected recently (NOC 4012 not acceptable ) can you please share your info with me?

Thank you

 

[RA_toronto]

I had T4s for my teaching assistant position and T4As for my research assistant position. I didn't have any other work experience, and most of the working hours I claimed was coming from my RA position. I applied in August 2012 and rejected in July 2013.

Hello Everyone,

I have posted this question before , but I think here I will probably get a clear idea . My question is those of you have applied for PR (CEC) using only NOC 4012 (RA/TA Duties)
Did you apply with your T4A or T4?
Did you only got T4A or you got both T4A and T4 as well from your University?

Those of you have been rejected recently (NOC 4012 not acceptable ) can you please share your info with me?

Thank you

 

[unfrgvn]

I had T4s for my teaching assistant position and T4As for my research assistant position. I didn't have any other work experience, and most of the working hours I claimed was coming from my RA position. I applied in August 2012 and rejected in July 2013.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[pari_p]

RA_toronto: Did you email them about reconsideration? or planning to appeal?

I have not heard anything from them, my file is still in review since my notes doesnt say anything about T4A (like yours), I just sent them an email quoting the old rules, hopefully the second reviewer is nice enough!! Or else will try my luck in May 2014 when I will be eligible for PhD Stream (FSW)!!

 

[RA_toronto]

RA_toronto: Did you email them about reconsideration? or planning to appeal?

I have not heard anything from them, my file is still in review since my notes doesnt say anything about T4A (like yours), I just sent them an email quoting the old rules, hopefully the second reviewer is nice enough!! Or else will try my luck in May 2014 when I will be eligible for PhD Stream (FSW)!!

I just got off the phone with the Immigration Canada call center. The representative said that there is no appeal process for applications processed by CPP-Ottawa. I called again and asked another representative and he said the same thing. They both said my only choice is to submit a new application.

It's good that your notes don't say anything about T4As, hopefully that's a positive sign. You may want to get a more detailed letter from your supervisor stressing that the work you claim as a research assistant is not part of your study, won't be part of your thesis, and is separate from the hours you study towards your thesis. It might help. Make sure to submit before a decision is made because apparently there is nothing to do after.

As for me, I'm eligible for PhD stream but I'm not sure if I should apply. I'm afraid to spend another another 600-700 hundred dollars and get rejected because of the same reason. Also, for PhD stream, they require you to have around 11,000 dollars in your bank account, and it won't be easy for me to borrow such a big amount of money.