Appeal disaster

[locolynn]

But if the relationship is good, waiting 2-3 years for full PR wont make a difference and if the relationship breaks down, then the applicant could probably want to move back to their own country anyway. I came to Canada to be with my wife, I didn't marry my wife just to come to Canada. If it helped weed out the fraudulent marriages, then why not. Honest people have nothing to fear.

Right...so you give up everything in your home country to move to Canada to be with your spouse. You spend 2 years building a life for yourself...have a great job, made some new friends, bought house, maybe even a cute little dog. Then your spouse cheats on you and wants a divorce and you are forced to give up everything and move back to your home country. There are a million things that can go wrong in a relationship in a 2 year span even if your relationship "is good".

Seeing the world in black and white dichotomies like good relationships/bad relationships and honest people/dishonest people isn't realistic. The world is oh so very full of complicated colours.

Lynn

 

[canadianwoman]

I can see problems with having a waiting period as well. Especially cases like those mentioned on another thread where the wife was abused, but her family back home didn't want her.

Still, what they are essentially doing now is having a waiting period for certain countries, but the spouse cannot wait in Canada. Being apart for so long isn't good for a relationship either. When Africans are waiting 2 years while other applicants are getting approved in a few months, it seems obvious to me that the unofficial policy is (or was) to make them wait - to prove that the relationship is real. Yes, there are a lot of fake marriages from Africa, but I wish they had some other way to figure out which were genuine.

In the USA a lot of people criticize their marriage-based visa system as well. It is not considered ideal. However, they do have provisions for abused spouses - if a spouse is being abused, they can leave the marriage before the probation time is up, and will not be deported.

 

[locolynn]

Still, what they are essentially doing now is having a waiting period for certain countries, but the spouse cannot wait in Canada. Being apart for so long isn't good for a relationship either. When Africans are waiting 2 years while other applicants are getting approved in a few months, it seems obvious to me that the unofficial policy is (or was) to make them wait - to prove that the relationship is real. Yes, there are a lot of fake marriages from Africa, but I wish they had some other way to figure out which were genuine.

.

So true so true so true! That might be the most frustrating part of this whole process...the "unofficial policies". Sigh.

 

[RobsLuv]

I'm wondering about the "Judge" you reference - the way this person acted, you'd think they were the counsel for the Minister, not someone who is supposed to hear both sides of the case and make a fair decision. Was this a full appeal hearing, or an ADR conference - because our ADR hearing went similarly in that Minister's counsel went on a tangent, told our lawyer to "shut up" and did not allow my sponsor/husband (or the lawyer) to present our case. Six weeks later she finally rendered a decision, refusing to "consent", and we waited another 13 months for a full hearing. The panel member who presided over our hearing was careful to be completely impartial and "by the book" - I can't imagine him acting the way you report the "Judge" at your hearing acted. Your lawyer should be filing a formal complaint with the IAD, regardless of the outcome of this ridiculous hearing, but I'm curious why it was allowed to go so far off the rails (although I know that our ADR hearing went completely off the rails, too, so it can happen).

 

[Rob.Barrett]

I work for a media news distribution Agency and i really advise you to ring CBC, CTV Globe and Mail, CityTV, National Post and Even go try the BBC world service. They could pay quite high and even get the Pakistan Media involved. Canada will outcry over this and we could, if public opinion sways, see something done about it. Was it Video Taped? This "Judge" certainly has a problem somewhere in their work. Annoys me more that people who are hard working want to get into canada to work and make this state better, and people who cant do their jobs well are stopping them.

It petrifies me to go through this system as we are deeply in love and i couldn't bare to some, upper class twat to tell me that im in a convenience. This is a country founded on Immigration, and now there closing the doors? I understand that Canada is only looking out for her self with the possibility of the wrong person getting in but surely they can see your a 100%er.

 

[nj123]

Right...so you give up everything in your home country to move to Canada to be with your spouse. You spend 2 years building a life for yourself...have a great job, made some new friends, bought house, maybe even a cute little dog. Then your spouse cheats on you and wants a divorce and you are forced to give up everything and move back to your home country. There are a million things that can go wrong in a relationship in a 2 year span even if your relationship "is good".

Seeing the world in black and white dichotomies like good relationships/bad relationships and honest people/dishonest people isn't realistic. The world is oh so very full of complicated colours.

Lynn

Very well said. 8)

 

[tgchi13]

With regards to the 2-3 years "landed" before getting PR status, personally I think it's a terrible idea.

You are punishing the majority of the people who are in genuine relationships due to the actions of a few that are not.

Marriages break down - sponsors decide they don't want to be married anymore - and sometimes after waiting what seems a lifetime to get PR and be with their spouses, when they finally get to be together things are not the same.

So.... you are punishing those spouses who, through no fault of their own, find themselves divorced or separated.

What about those who, after they come to Canada and live with their sponsors (husbands/wives) find that their spouse has become abusive? Should they be punished also? What if their sponsor was using them?? Took all their money and then kicked them out?

Most spouses give up their homes and livelihood to enable them to come to Canada... what would they have to go back to? Some cultures look down on divorced women and they are isolated - what would you send them back to?

Think!

Sorry, but you should think of the different scenario's that could occur before making blind statements that all spousal sponsorships should have to live with their sponsors for 2-3 years before becoming PR's.

Souxie, when one has been granted PR under a family application and the family breaks down, why would they want to stay if they are no longer with their partner?

 

[bobshynoswife]

Just a thought...what if a woman's husband moved here, she got pregnant, and they had a baby together within the year. Then their marriage breaks down and at the 2 year mark they are divorced. Should the father have to move back to his home country? Or could he stay in Canada to be an active parent and help support his child?

It's easy to say "if my partner and i were no longer together I would move home" but what happens if there are children involved?

 

[tgchi13]

Just a thought...what if a woman's husband moved here, she got pregnant, and they had a baby together within the year. Then their marriage breaks down and at the 2 year mark they are divorced. Should the father have to move back to his home country? Or could he stay in Canada to be an active parent and help support his child?

It's easy to say "if my partner and i were no longer together I would move home" but what happens if there are children involved?

You got me there, and I'm not saying anyone should be made to leave just that I expect they would want to. But in most circumstances, I'd expect one would want to return home. With a young child, I'd expect the parent would wish to stay.

 

[JimM]

Souxie, when one has been granted PR under a family application and the family breaks down, why would they want to stay if they are no longer with their partner?

Maybe because in the time they've been in Canada they've grown to like it. They have a job, friends, etc and don't want to leave them to go back to to their original country where they would have to start over yet again. You make it sound like Canada has nothing that would make a person want to stay there.

 

[tgchi13]

Maybe because in the time they've been in Canada they've grown to like it. They have a job, friends, etc and don't want to leave them to go back to to their original country where they would have to start over yet again. You make it sound like Canada has nothing that would make a person want to stay there.

That wasn't my intention. I believe the desire to go home would outweigh most things. As one leaving Canada for 'spousal immigration' I fully believe that should our marriage not succeed or, forbid, something should happen to my husband my internal compass would point to home.

 

[JimM]

That wasn't my intention. I believe the desire to go home would outweigh most things. As one leaving Canada for 'spousal immigration' I fully believe that should our marriage not succeed or, forbid, something should happen to my husband my internal compass would point to home.

That may be true for you and certainly a lot of people probably would do the same. But it's also not right to assume that most people would feel the same way, there's many reasons somebody would chose to stay in Canada and "home" may not be all that nice of a place. I have to assume that people immigrating want to be in the country they are going to, (no matter how much I love my fiance I wouldn't move to Canada if I didn't like it and it's people, I'd be miserable living somewhere I didn't like). So I don't think it's unlikely that a lot of people would chose to stay and continue the life they've made. I know if things were going well for me apart from my relationship collapsing I probably would stay.

 

[tgchi13]

That may be true for you and certainly a lot of people probably would do the same. But it's also not right to assume that most people would feel the same way, there's many reasons somebody would chose to stay in Canada and "home" may not be all that nice of a place. I have to assume that people immigrating want to be in the country they are going to, (no matter how much I love my fiance I wouldn't move to Canada if I didn't like it and it's people, I'd be miserable living somewhere I didn't like). So I don't think it's unlikely that a lot of people would chose to stay and continue the life they've made. I know if things were going well for me apart from my relationship collapsing I probably would stay.

I wasn't assuming anything, I was asking Siouxie a question.

Glad to hear you feel that way! That's nice.

 

[Siouxie]

As others have said, if you have been sponsored and have made this wonderful country your home, would you necessarily want to leave?

Take my own case, for example. I have been in Canada for nearly 10 years - however, I only received my PR status this January (2010) after 5 years of processing. During that time I have made friends, built a home, got a dog, built up my ties with my husbands children.. plus my own son is here... so.... supposing (god forbid) that next year my husband decides he is no longer happy ...

Under the supposition that a spouse who hasn't remained in a relationship to gain their PR for 2-3 years (despite however long they have been in Canada) would be forced to return to their home country, I would be sent back.

No home... no family... no real friends any longer (10 years is a long time to try and keep up friendships overseas), no money to buy a home, no money to rent a home... be put on social assistance, housed in a B&B... at my age I would have real trouble finding a job in the UK... and my son would also be sent back.

In addition, I love Canada!!!

Do you think that is fair?

I don't. Even if my relationship broke down, my ties to this country are strong.. I would not want to leave... I have family, friends and a home here.

So my answer, tgchi, is not everyone would want to return... me included.

 

[RobsLuv]

Try the media......tell them your story...see if a local or national will respond.

Shout about this until you are hoarse....this isn't right...you know it and most of us here know it.

Apart from that, all I can do is cross everything possible and wish you both the best of luck.

I work for a media news distribution Agency and i really advise you to ring CBC, CTV Globe and Mail, CityTV, National Post and Even go try the BBC world service. They could pay quite high and even get the Pakistan Media involved. Canada will outcry over this and we could, if public opinion sways, see something done about it. Was it Video Taped? This "Judge" certainly has a problem somewhere in their work. Annoys me more that people who are hard working want to get into canada to work and make this state better, and people who cant do their jobs well are stopping them.

It petrifies me to go through this system as we are deeply in love and i couldn't bare to some, upper class twat to tell me that im in a convenience. This is a country founded on Immigration, and now there closing the doors? I understand that Canada is only looking out for her self with the possibility of the wrong person getting in but surely they can see your a 100%er.

I wouldn't advise this unless all avenues for appeal and reapplication have been exhausted. CIC does not like to be pointed at for the "errors" they make and, as long as you are still under their thumb, you put yourself at a huge disadvantage when you start making a lot of noise. When things are finally over and you've got nothing to lose - then have at it . . . make some major noise . . . even if the visa is eventually issued!! It's the only way we're going to make this kind of abuse stop. I think, too many times, they push the limits - there is plenty of evidence that applications are being refused when the refusal isn't supported by the IRPA & Regs. It's too easy for visa officers to claim they don't believe the relationship is genuine - too many interviews where the applicant is harassed and intimidated . . . and, also, many situations where applications are refused for other reasons than an MOC, when those reasons are clearly not supported by the Act . . . like the guy who was recently refused because his ex-wife refused to allow their minor, non-accompanying child to undergo medical examination.

Afterwards, in what I believe to be a concerted effort to make people give up - because they really had no grounds to refuse in the first place - they put you through a long wait for your hearing, and then MC is abusive to the appellant and human beings (lawyers, appellants and applicants alike) are told to shut up, and evidence is squashed . . . so that when they're finally forced to relent (because there was never any grounds for upholding the refusal) and the appeal is allowed, the couple is so traumatized by the process that they just want to go away and hide and never think of their nightmare again. And so this practice continues because there is no one to advocate for the sponsor and people are put through such hell that they let it go once it's done. It's not right.