Just a random casual passer-by with no business here - want to say I agree with you. I am more worried about his app than I am about my own it feels after reading these threads.
adr help
- Thread starter dw33
- Start date
Be less dramatic. Yes, it is stressful at times, but adding to it does not help - and it's a long process. Not just immigration formalities but actually moving and settling in Canada, too - you have a long road ahead of you. Probably a longer and harder one for your spouse - keep that in mind - I mean in terms of the effect all of this is having on her.
Several here have tried to explain the issue with 'intent to immigrate.' A lot of people have used the (relatively generous) provisions not to move and settle in Canada, but just to have a back-up. They literally do not intend to move. If you want to use your restaurant example, it's more like the problem a coffeeshop faces with people showing up with their computers for wifi access and getting upset after a few hours when they're asked to actually buy something. Not a perfect analogy but you get the point - not everyone in a restaurant actually DOES want to eat and spend money.
And if you still don't get the point, listen to others when they say it's a real issue. No-one here is trying to mislead you (even if there might be disagreement about some aspects).
You're not being attacked when asked to show some evidence. The people doing their jobs are doing just that - as they (in terms of government and they as employees) are REQUIRED to do by law. (Yes, there are specific requirements in the law about this)
There's no reason to imagine problems about what government wants for proof of your relationship. There is NO (none, zero, nada, bupkus, zilch) evidence there is doubt about your relationship. They asked for a proper (official) copy of your marriage certificate. It sounds like getting upset when someone asks to see your passport - "what, you don't believe I'm a citizen??????? You don't believe I am who I say I am? What is this, nazi germany?".
Just chill out.
Again, not an attack: you may be calm in other circumstances but not in this one. You've ignored repeated suggestions to calm down, slow down, think, consider, revise, read, and figure out what the people (yes, people) are thinking and what they are required to do. (A bit of empahty wouldn't hurt, they're not monsters)
This would also help with reading and understanding what people are saying here. On the one hand, you keep claiming/complaining that these government requests are costing you money - and then also saying you don't care about money (and so you quit your job in one day). Those are, ummm, kind of contradictory? I realize it's the stress talking, but you're getting offended at comments that are actually pretty neutral.
It sounds like you haven't actually sent the response to the document request yet. Read again what I and others have suggested - go back and look at what you've written and collected carefully before you send.
You can by the way cut down what you have prepared and include in your explanation/cover letter or whatever language to effect that eg "I can also provide you with other information such as the arrangements I've made to transport my cats" etc. I.e. open the door to having more information if they think needed.
By the way, you should order your GCMS notes - as soon as practical. That will help you understand whether there are actually any concerns about your relationship.
Which, by the way, is related to another point: you keep saying you will appeal and - well, I don't understand your point here. When the time comes, you should decide to appeal or not based on whichever approach fits your needs better. If an appeal is the only way, fine - you have that option, but appeals are long, painful and even more risky. (Some applicants don't have any choice so that is what they need to do)
Get your gcms notes. If your current file evaluation has no language expressing doubts about your relationship, in a future application, it would be unlikely to come up (assuming no significant changes).
Down the road, if re-applying (for example after you return to Canada because they don't accept your intent to immigrate, no matter how unlikely that is) is faster, less costly and more efficient - then you should forget about an appeal and just re-apply. A good lawyer will tell you this, which approach gets you what you want, faster; a bad lawyer will be happy to appeal for you because it's more money for them. From the government side, they don't care - they have to let you appeal - and no, the government won't 'learn anything' from letting you appeal and losing, they don't have any choice (by law). At most, you would be a footnote on page 28 in a five-year data review where some analyst notes that 'some fixed percentage of applicants will appeal out of spite whatever happens and no matter how illogical appealing is compared to re-applying.'
My point is, your threats now to appeal are completely meaningless - obviously just out of frustration (which I understand) - and irrelevant.
(I speak from some experience in that I've had to tell bosses that their own emotions and desire for 'justice' were leading to worse results and that going to court was last resort; they were less calm and rational than they thought. Not exactly the same of course but I think you get my point. And I've made the same mistake myself...)
So, you THINK or KNOW if I failed and reapplied in Canada and stayed in Canada and waited another whole year they couldnt next time say PROVE the relationship. This is my issue here. First this better not get refused. But from IRCC point of view and many on this site saying THEY DONT DOUBT your relationship. So if thats the case if failed the next applicarion should be 100 percent a pass because Im in Canada. So clarify can they on a new app change AHH, NOW HES IN CANADA AND HIS WIFE ABROAD SO LETS SLAM THE RELATIONSHIP?
Apologies. But why are you worrying about 2023 when they've asked you for a simple few documents in 2021 January? You're already questioning what they will do on your next application on the basis of them having asked for an ADR - that too something that isn't very uncommon. Lots of people get ADRs similar to yours and they send them in. I, and anyone else reading this thread will agree with me, don't see the connection between asking for a document and refusal of your current application.
Perhaps take a little break. Come back to it, provide the best of what you have to provide, and let them get back to you before you decide in your own head their decision for you.
I'm having trouble parsing your language so not sure if I understand.
But:
-it's not impossible that they could deny a (potential, hypothetical, unlikely) future (re)application on the basis that your relationship is not genuine. But if you have evidence that no concern was previously expressed, it becomes harder to do so credibly.
-therefore, if under your current app they have expressed no doubts, it is MUCH LESS likely that this (hypothetical) future app would be denied on the basis of non-genuine relationship. (GCMS notes would close-to-guarantee your success, in absence of new information to contrary, on appeal).
Could they play games with this? Hypothetically. But unlikely, or at least much less likely. Government doesn't 'care' per se but situation is different - they still don't like spending money needlessly, and lawyers working for govt still have oaths to the Bar and whatnot, and while it's hard to sue government, there is potential liability for eg wanton, capricious decisions - they can't say egregiously untrue stuff without risk. Or if you prefer, government may not care, but it can still hurt careers.
I know you can find cases / threads where it might seem like Bad Things Happened. It's complicated, but suffice to say that usually or often those are because the cases actually were more complex. Hardly anyone presents the worst side of their application on a forum - it's just human nature. (Everyone in prison, according to them, is wrongly convicted and persecuted, too - see, for example, Lord Black, the egregious bloated flatulent monster that he is)
Keep in mind that on threads here, it's always the Gummint's fault, never the applicant - but if you look at IAD decisions, it turns out that those cases are often really egregious (on applicant side).
I wholly and unreservedly support this point - I'm actually sorry for indulging your persecution fantasies.
Simple point: if you really are as worried as you claim to be - order your gcms notes. That might actually be useful in future, as opposed to your current actions.
I finally understand. My application doesnt show I want to immigrate. OK. So there is no more I can do. When first applied and still today I want to be home for my friends and family, most important to start my.life there with my wife. Yes, I dont have a bank account there right now and no job. So I get it. The intent isnt there, and that shows I actually dont want to immigrate.
Again with the extremes - it's not a disaster. Start pulling together the info, as suggested previously, which means - to the extent possible - start preparing to move. You can - again - also explain that some steps you haven't taken yet because you don't know when. Just that the more you - with documents, emails, etc - show documented, credible steps, the better. Continue to do some of this and perhaps down the road you can provide some more info, and at some point these will be steps you'll need to take anyway.
You gotta understand, ircc is like a robot. It has no past no future, no feelings, no understanding, no remorse,
it only has a few programs, an input and output. These programs or algorithms...whatnot....
They have a program for a Outland app when sponsor is in Canada
They have a program for an Outland app when sponsor is outside Canada
They have a program for common law
etc. each program is specifically written for the specific scenario and Visa Officers blindly follow it.
If there is missing input, it will raise a red flag EACH TIME, and then the program will ask to satisfy each of these red flags by means of.......yours truly ADR>
So for example, you reapply as a sponsor living inside Canada and you ASSUME that on your previous application ircc is already convinced that your relationship is genuine, so you skimp on the relationship proofs.
Ircc runs its program, sees that you love proof is lacking, raise a red flag and slap you with ADR.
Take away? If you reapply from inside Canada, you follow the same as everybody else who is applying from scratch. Dont assume anything, follow the checklist and provide abundant proof.
While I don't entirely agree with your framing, yes, in a new application one should still (surprise!) follow the instructions and provide the requested documentation.
That said, they will also reference the previous file and it would be unusual to come to a different conclusion about the relationship (barring any new developments or information).
I doubt they will mention a previous file. In what way do you mean would they reference a previous file?
Like what - We know you applied from outside last time so we'll take it easy on you?
IRCC will compare the information provided in a previous application and yes, including any conclusions/determinations (and notes by previous officers of relevance) in that previous application.
Yes of course they do that, but they wont TELL you that, and expect you provide proofs as if you have never applied before to see if your new story matches the old one, and if its lacking, guess what? A D R...PFL...
I believe if you check above I said exactly that: follow the instructions and provide the requested documentation. I did not remotely suggest not doing so, or that a previous application is a free pass.Yes of course they do that, but they wont TELL you that, and expect you provide proofs as if you have never applied before to see if your new story matches the old one, and if its lacking, guess what? A D R...PFL...
And as for 'new story matches the old story': it's all much easier if you're telling the truth and not a 'story.'